Should I have a group of dither fish for cockatoo apisto pair?

[Mattlikesfish36]

I have been quarantining a pair of cockatoo apistogramma for a little over two months now and I want to transition them into my main 17 gallon aquarium soon. It currently has a starlight bristlenose pleco, 2 nerite snails, and a handful of amano shrimp. I see conflicting information about dither fish for apistos and I want to be sure I have the best possible preparation before I introduce them to the tank. I am thinking of adding a small group of pencilfish after reading that they can help the apistos feel safer, but have also seen people with experiences of aggressive and territorial males. Any recommendations on how I should proceed before introducing them to my aquarium? Thanks!

[anewbie]

If they are male female a 17 gallon aquarium is too small and when they are of breeding age one of them is going to end up dead. Sorry for barer of bad news but aggression between male/female during breeding cycle can be quite significant. Typically the smallest aquarium recommended for these fishes is a 20 long (gallons is not important but floor space) along with proper scapeing so male/female can escape each other (caves are great for breeding but do not make the best hiding spaces from an angry fish).

[AnimalNerd98]

Although 20 gallons may be “the ideal,” lots of people have bred apistos in 10 gallons, including master breeder @Dean’s Fishroom. Provided that there is enough cover and line of sight breaks in the tank. See more in the video below for how to set-up the tank for breeding. I am not sure about how the other inhabitants may affect the pair, but brown pencilfish have been suggested as good dithers by Cory in the past. I don’t think there really is a way to guarantee that you won’t have an overly aggressive male, or vice versa, a female that beats on the male too heavily. I would just say to keep an eye on them and separate them whenever you think it has gone too far (one in the main tank and whoever is injured/the aggressor in the quarantine tank). I am not sure about doing anything special before adding them in… maybe someone else can chime in. Good luck! 

Edited September 12, 2022 by AnimalNerd98

[Mattlikesfish36]

On 9/12/2022 at 1:38 AM, anewbie said:

If they are male female a 17 gallon aquarium is too small and when they are of breeding age one of them is going to end up dead. Sorry for barer of bad news but aggression between male/female during breeding cycle can be quite significant. Typically the smallest aquarium recommended for these fishes is a 20 long (gallons is not important but floor space) along with proper scapeing so male/female can escape each other (caves are great for breeding but do not make the best hiding spaces from an angry fish).

@anewbiethanks for your reply. I was basing my stocking off of the video that I saw which was also posted by @AnimalNerd98 in this thread. Hopefully things will work out but I’ll closely monitor. If Dean is comfortable with them in small 10 gallons then I feel okay about them in my 17 to start. They are doing well with each other in my 10 gallon quarantine so far and I haven’t noticed any overt aggression 

[Fish Folk]

@tolstoy21 has been quite successful breeding Apistos. I bought a lovely trio from him awhile back. If he chimes in, have a listen! 

[tolstoy21]

Apisto Cacs will be fine with other fish.

You can use any small, mid-to-top-dwelling fish as a dither. For instance, the smaller tetras species, zebra danios, pencil fish, etc. I use endlers, when needed for shy apistos. You just need something that swims confidently out in the open, above them, to make them feel secure the coast is clear from predatory fish. 

I have found that they get spooked by fast swimming, rambunctious fish, like some barb species (Odessa Barbs, in personal my experience). Also, try to pick fish that aren't  super fast, food hogs and that will let food settle to the bottom for them.

If you're trying to breed them, then pick smaller fish that can't/won't eat the fry.

The male won't show aggression to other fish species, in my experience. They just get aggressive with other males for territory.

Females on the other hand can get aggressive with every other living creature in the known universe if they are guarding their children. 

On 9/12/2022 at 7:05 AM, Mattlikesfish36 said:

I feel okay about them in my 17 to start.

A 17 is totally fine. I keep mine in 20 gallon highs, but just because that's the standard tank size I buy. They will happily live in a 10 gallon. But in a smaller tank, you have to also take into account with the space needed by the other species, especially if you have other bottom-dwelling fish in the aqaurium.

[Mattlikesfish36]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:32 AM, tolstoy21 said:

Apisto Cacs will be fine with other fish.

You can use any small, mid-to-top-dwelling fish as a dither. For instance, the smaller tetras species, zebra danios, pencil fish, etc. I use endlers, when needed for shy apistos. You just need something that swims confidently out in the open, above them, to make them feel secure the coast is clear from predatory fish. 

I have found that they get spooked by fast swimming, rambunctious fish, like some barb species (Odessa Barbs, in personal my experience). Also, try to pick fish that aren't  super fast, food hogs and that will let food settle to the bottom for them.

If you're trying to breed them, then pick smaller fish that can't/won't eat the fry.

The male won't show aggression to other fish species, in my experience. They just get aggressive with other males for territory.

Females on the other hand can get aggressive with every other living creature in the known universe if they are guarding their children. 

A 17 is totally fine. I keep mine in 20 gallon highs, but just because that's the standard tank size I buy. They will happily live in a 10 gallon. But in a smaller tank, you have to also take into account with the space needed by the other species, especially if you have other bottom-dwelling fish in the aqaurium.

@tolstoy21thank you so much for all of the info! I feel much better about the plan now. I may go for some pencilfish if they have some at my LFC. Otherwise I’ll just go for it with the apistos and monitor closely

[anewbie]

While it comes down to individual fishes; do NOT be shocked if one day you find either the male or female dead.

[tolstoy21]

On 9/12/2022 at 8:15 AM, anewbie said:

While it comes down to individual fishes; do NOT be shocked if one day you find either the male or female dead.

Yes, this is very true with apisto species, especially around breeding time.

On 9/12/2022 at 7:47 AM, Mattlikesfish36 said:

@tolstoy21thank you so much for all of the info! I feel much better about the plan now. I may go for some pencilfish if they have some at my LFC. Otherwise I’ll just go for it with the apistos and monitor closely

I like pencil fish too. They are a cool, attractive fish. Just haven't gotten any myself yet. I have waaaaay too many endlers on hand, so they are my goto dither for that reason alone.