tolstoy21 Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 Still trying (unsuccessfully) to get fry from these guys. I can get them to spawn, but still trying to get the eggs to hatch (and/or not get eaten). Either way, one of my current favorites. Very personable. Very slow, very peaceful. They love to come up to the glass whenever I approach and say 'Hi'. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXInkedPhoenixX Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Beautiful fish. Do they eat their own eggs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted September 12, 2022 Author Share Posted September 12, 2022 (edited) On 9/12/2022 at 5:15 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said: Beautiful fish. Do they eat their own eggs? They do. But I am unsure if the eggs are unviable and they know it, so they eat them. Or if they just eat them cause "why not?" 🤷♂️ I've had them spawn 4 times (that I know of) and no eggs have made it through to produce fry. I have heard these aren't the easiest fish to breed, so I'm just going to keep trying. Fingers crossed, I'll get fry out of these guys some day. Edited September 12, 2022 by tolstoy21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXInkedPhoenixX Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Looking forward to hearing about your future success! If they do produce I bet the fry will be fun! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutBout Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 These are quite funky for a dwarf cichlid. Kinda unique how the females color up more than the males! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted September 12, 2022 Author Share Posted September 12, 2022 @OutBoutYou know, in the pair I have they both display a ton of color, depending on mood, etc. The pic above is the male. The one below is the female. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutBout Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 On 9/12/2022 at 3:53 PM, tolstoy21 said: @OutBoutYou know, in the pair I have they both display a ton of color, depending on mood, etc. The pic above is the male. The one below is the female. Interesting! Thanks for sharing. Are these related to Nannacara anomala? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 On 9/12/2022 at 8:32 PM, OutBout said: Interesting! Thanks for sharing. Are these related to Nannacara anomala? You know, I don't know. But you are half-right about the coloration, the male does not always display such vibrant stripes, while the female usually does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 I’ve heard of breeders of various sensitive egg-eaters blocking off the tank entirely except a tiny gap to check on the fish/eggs/fry. Dim light only, feeding holes so you don’t have to lift a lid, slow dripping water in with auto-overflow for water changes, and I’m sure there’s other tips out there. Maybe one or more of these will be the key for your pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Aim for a pH of 5.5, just saw something on them and another Ivanacara species and they were aiming for 4.5. I remember RedFishBlueFish talking about them when he got them in on his livestream and he said they appreciated “ridiculously” low pH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) @Odd Duck and @Beardedbillygoat1975, thanks for the advice. Coincidentally, I did actually order a decent Ph meter the other day and am receiving it this week. I recently acquired a couple pairs of Apistogramma Abacaxis and they also require Ph in the 4s to successfully breed. All I know with the Ivancara is that their Ph is currently below 6 because that's all I can measure with the common aquarium kits. So their Ph could be 0 or it could be 5.9, I have no way of knowing. Hopefully the meter will help me get a better idea of where it's at and I can tweak from there. I haven't seen anything online about their eggs being light sensitive, but I also haven't seen much out there about how to successfully breed them, other than low Ph and clean water. The TDS in their water is currently suuuuuper low, so I'm also wondering if I add a teeny-tiny bit of hardness back into the mix, if that may have any impact. However, one change at a time . . . first experiment with the Ph levels and if that doesn't work, maybe introduce a little bit of mineralization into the water. I have read they come from 'nutrient poor' waters, but how poor is 'nutrient poor'? Dunno. Maybe my current water is like 'nutrient bankrupt'. Right now, I can get them to breed no problems. Just can't get any fry. But . . . maybe my problem is a simple one, the parents eating them! (I did pull the eggs once and put them in a breeder box, but no luck there either. All but a few were infertile and those didn't develop). Edited September 13, 2022 by tolstoy21 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 You’ll crack it @tolstoy21! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 On 9/13/2022 at 8:32 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said: You’ll crack it @tolstoy21! Thanks for the vote of confidence! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 @Beardedbillygoat1975 Ok just took a Ph reading and it's sitting at 5.4. Going to add a bunch of oak leaves this weekend and see if that moves it down a bit more. Right now I have a bunch of peat pellets in a box filter. Those have been brewing for a while. They could need refreshing as I'm not sure how long they last. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 Let’s see what happens!! You could always get some r/o water and do a water change after a little bit and see if a simulated dry then rainy season does it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted September 15, 2022 Author Share Posted September 15, 2022 (edited) On 9/14/2022 at 9:07 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said: Let’s see what happens!! You could always get some r/o water and do a water change after a little bit and see if a simulated dry then rainy season does it. They are in RO right now. If I do a water change with cooler RO water, it triggers them. That and feeding live black worms. I seem to be able to trigger them no problems, i just can't get the fry to hatch. Mostly the parents eat the eggs, but when I see the eggs disappearing, it's after a few days, so they either hatch and die or hatch and get eaten, or the female eats the infertile/bad eggs (is that even a thing?). All in all, they have spawned about 5 times. There is an older YouTube video out there where someone has gotten the fry to hatch and they are following around the mother. The youtuber then mentions that this was something like their 95th try at this. He was so ecstatic with joy. So, I guess the moral of the story is patience? Edited September 15, 2022 by tolstoy21 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 I hate patience, give me quick and easy! Oops wrong hobby. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 On 9/14/2022 at 8:22 PM, tolstoy21 said: They are in RO right now. If I do a water change with cooler RO water, it triggers them. That and feeding live black worms. I seem to be able to trigger them no problems, i just can't get the fry to hatch. Mostly the parents eat the eggs, but when I see the eggs disappearing, it's after a few days, so they either hatch and die or hatch and get eaten, or the female eats the infertile/bad eggs (is that even a thing?). All in all, they have spawned about 5 times. There is an older YouTube video out there where someone has gotten the fry to hatch and they are following around the mother. The youtuber then mentions that this was something like their 95th try at this. He was so ecstatic with joy. So, I guess the moral of the story is patience? If he didn’t mention what he did different to get fry, have you tried reaching out to him? It’s worth trying. He might have just the suggestion you need to get them to not eat fry or get eggs to hatch. Many other species will certainly eat bad/fungused eggs and some are sloppy about it and get a lot of good eggs, too. Plus some get started on the bad eggs and just keep eating. Seems like I saw some breeder of either angels or discus that were persistently eating eggs and he decided they started on fungused and just kept going. He used a pipette and may have calculated his total allowed drops(?) for the tank and flowed methylene blue over the eggs after laying. He did it after lights out and had the tank pretty blacked out, too, if I remember right. I don’t know why I remember weird tidbits like that, and it was a one-off post on a forum (if I remember right), but something to consider if you think the eggs are fungusing even after fertilization. Do you have a camera you can set up outside the tank looking at their spawning spot? You can create a cardboard box to enclose the camera if you want to black out your tank. That might help you figure out if they are eating the eggs, or the eggs are hatching and they are eating fry, or if the fry are dying. Set up the camera to run continuously but make sure you can review in adjustable speed in fast forward so it doesn’t make huge jumps as you scan through. You might have to hire somebody to review all the footage! 😆 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted September 15, 2022 Author Share Posted September 15, 2022 On 9/15/2022 at 7:07 AM, Odd Duck said: If he didn’t mention what he did different to get fry, have you tried reaching out to him? It’s worth trying. He might have just the suggestion you need to get them to not eat fry or get eggs to hatch. The video is like eight to ten years old or so, if I remember correctly. And, alas, others asked and no replies. Thanks for all the other tips! On 9/15/2022 at 7:07 AM, Odd Duck said: Set up the camera to run continuously but make sure you can review in adjustable speed in fast forward so it doesn’t make huge jumps as you scan through. You might have to hire somebody to review all the footage! I could just set up a live stream and crowd source it by posting a link here! 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 On 9/15/2022 at 6:23 AM, tolstoy21 said: The video is like eight to ten years old or so, if I remember correctly. And, alas, others asked and no replies. Thanks for all the other tips! I could just set up a live stream and crowd source it by posting a link here! 😉 We can take it in shifts, right across the globe! 😆 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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