Over-cleaning cause Bacterial Bloom?

[MattyM]

Hi all, last weekend I did a 30% water change, perhaps an overly aggressive gravel vac, sponge cleaning, and added some new plants. I know - that's a lot. But within a couple days my water clouded up - here's my 10 gallon, and the 20 gallon looks basically the same. 

Water was clear before the change - I'm wondering if I either removed too many BBs, or if there was some sort of bacteria on the new plants that is now blooming. Fish all seem fine, active and eating as usual. Plants are happy. 

Tanks are 2 months old, did a fishless cycle and both are lightly stocked (5 ember tetras and a juvie platy in the 10, 3 platies in the 20 - female is preggers). 

No ammonia or nitrites, nitrates around 20 ppm. 

Do I wait it out, or dose some Stability? Anything else I should be considering? Tx!

[TOtrees]

I would wait and see how it works out over the next few days. Feed VERY lightly, don't change any more water, otherwise keep to your routine. Monitor the fish for signs of stress (hiding, significant change in color, etc), and take no action if the fish seem ok. Basically, a balance has been upset and it's most likely to be restored on its own with no intervention. 

If it doesn't clear up with a few days to a week, then we can think about what needs to change to clear things up. 

It can't hurt to dose with Prime or whatever you use for detox. The only possible downside is reduced oxygen, and if you have passable aeration/movement that won't be a concern. Also double check water temp. I don't have any suspicions, it's just and easy thing to check and cross off the "what could go wrong?" list. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by TOtrees

[Tommy Vercetti]

I would test for ammonia and nitrites daily and wait it out 3 to 5 days. If I detect ammonia or nitrites I would then decide if I want to water change 50% or dose seachem prime. As an example if I detected 0.25 ppm ammonia I would dose with prime. Conversely, if I detected 2.0 ppm ammonia then I would do a 50% water change and dose with prime.

I do also use seachem stability on new setups but I have noticed that it causes cloudiness that will stay until mechanically filtered out. Also I don't see any benefits of adding seachem stability if I have 0.0ppm ammonia and 0.0ppm nitrites because this means that the beneficial bacteria in the tank are able to handle ammonia and nitrite enough to make them undetectable and Prime can easily detoxify ammonia and nitrites at lower levels while I wait for the beneficial bacteria that is floating in the water column (cloudiness) to become attached to the filter media and other surfaces of the aquarium.

I feel that a water change, while sometimes necessary for the well being of the livestock in the aquarium, will also prolong the process of building beneficial bacteria.

As you have already become aware over cleaning your filter can cause a mini cycle and bacteria bloom. But what you may not know is that gravel vacuuming is a commitment that requires that you doing it regularly (I recommend once a week) or never do it at all (this is the method I use) so as to not suddenly introduce a large quantity of decaying organic material into the water column.

One other consideration is overfeeding. It is very common for new fish keepers to overfeeding the aquarium and this will result in bacteria blooms, ammonia spikes and ultimately high nitrates.

[Tommy Vercetti]

I am sure that you know this already but it is worth repeating: use tank water to gently clean a sponge filter or any biological filter media. Tap water can easily kill beneficial bacteria because the chlorine that is in the tap water is antibacterial.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Tommy Vercetti

[MattyM]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:06 PM, Tommy Vercetti said:

As you have already become aware over cleaning your filter can cause a mini cycle and bacteria bloom. But what you may not know is that gravel vacuuming is a commitment that requires that you doing it regularly (I recommend once a week) or never do it at all (this is the method I use) so as to not suddenly introduce a large quantity of decaying organic material into the water column.

Very interesting point @Tommy Vercetti - I think you're onto something there. I moved my driftwood/rocks to vac under it - kicking up a whole load of crap into the water column. I think I'm going to try your approach and cease with the deep dive gravel vacs in favor of just grazing the substrate and not moving stuff around so much, which will only get harder as my plants grow in. 

I don't think I'm overfeeding, I enjoy watching everyone eat and make sure things get eaten, whatever doesn't - the Amano's get. I also typically wc every couple weeks and it seems to suit them better, and the tanks are lightly stocked. 

And yeah, 100% on washing sponges in tank water. 

[Scapexghost]

Just wait it out. If was interference that caused the problem in the first place, any addition interference will probably worsen it. A bacteria bloom is a tank fixing itself, so just let it happen and you'll be good.

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/6/2022 at 10:24 AM, MattyM said:

Very interesting point @Tommy Vercetti - I think you're onto something there. I moved my driftwood/rocks to vac under it - kicking up a whole load of crap into the water column. I think I'm going to try your approach and cease with the deep dive gravel vacs in favor of just grazing the substrate and not moving stuff around so much, which will only get harder as my plants grow in. 

I don't think I'm overfeeding, I enjoy watching everyone eat and make sure things get eaten, whatever doesn't - the Amano's get. I also typically wc every couple weeks and it seems to suit them better, and the tanks are lightly stocked. 

And yeah, 100% on washing sponges in tank water. 

First, welcome to the forums!

If you haven't, be sure to check this out:

To answer the question, yes you can disrupt the biological filter when you are cleaning too much.  Specifically it can happen based on how and what you're cleaning.  Let's take a step back....

A.  When you cleaned equipment, hang-on-back, sponges, etc. Did you take them off the tank and to the sink and set them anywhere that may have had some contamination?
B.  When you cleaned any media, did you use tank water for everything?  (looks like above, you said yes, so that's awesome)
C.  When you had the items out of the tank, did ceramic media or any of the media have a chance to dry out, or did it stay wet?

The mulm you mentioned when moving wood and stuff around in the tank, it's very normal to remove that.  It's not the main source of bacteria in your tank.  Especially if you have a pleco, you'd usually expect to see a lot of that type of floating debris in the tanks.

[MattyM]

Cheers @nabokovfan87 - tx!

I did take my sponges out to clean (and added a new one to seed my hospital tank, not pictured as it's in the 20g), they were all soaking in removed tank water during most of the cleaning. And I have a clean plastic dish bin that doesn't get used for anything else for my other supplies and what-not. I don't think any of the sponge media stayed out of the tank water long enough to dry out (maybe 5-10 minutes) - but good point! 

Also good to know about the mulm. I think it's mostly diatom/algae die off from spinning up a new tank. My gravel substrate is around 3 inches deep, so that stuff has really worked it's way down there and it's confusing to know if that's OK or not. From what I gather, that's ok for a planted tank. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/6/2022 at 11:56 AM, MattyM said:

Also good to know about the mulm. I think it's mostly diatom/algae die off from spinning up a new tank. My gravel substrate is around 3 inches deep, so that stuff has really worked it's way down there and it's confusing to know if that's OK or not. From what I gather, that's ok for a planted tank. 

Very much so.  Just be careful if you see algae, it could be giving you high phosphates from the organic matter breaking down.

[MattyM]

On 9/6/2022 at 2:08 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Just be careful if you see algae, it could be giving you high phosphates from the organic matter breaking down.

Yup - I have been seeing a bit of fuzz algae sneaking into the lower light areas on my stem plants and dwarf sag, I ordered a phosphate test kit yesterday. If it's high, I'm not sure how to manage it though other than a wc - ?

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:22 PM, MattyM said:

Yup - I have been seeing a bit of fuzz algae sneaking into the lower light areas on my stem plants and dwarf sag, I ordered a phosphate test kit yesterday. If it's high, I'm not sure how to manage it though other than a wc - ?

I'm going through the same thing and I just got my phosphate test kit!

Test your tank, then test your tap.  Water changes should make those values as similar as you can.  If added organics, phosphate is the cause, then water changes would be the reason to use those to try to "catch up" and clean out the organics from the water column.   In my case, 0 from the tap and 1.0-1.5 from the tank.  With dosing, you'd want to be ~0.5 from what I researched.  There's a ton of smart minds in the plant world here that can better address the level for where you'd want that to be optimally though.

[MattyM]

Got my kit @nabokovfan87 - interesting results. Out of the tap I'm about 1, 20g is .25-.5 (plants taking it up?), and my 10g is around 2 ppm, and that is the cloudiest of the two tanks. Maybe a 20% wc is worth a shot in the 10g. 

[MattyM]

Went ahead and did it. Water looks filthy - no vac'ing or anything, just siphoned right out with tubing. Params all look good. Will see if the tank looks any clearer tomorrow. (FWIW it's just been getting cloudier over the week.)

Edited September 8, 2022 by MattyM
added info

[JettsPapa]

That might be green water algae, though if that's what it is I'm surprised it showed up so quickly.

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:52 AM, MattyM said:

Got my kit @nabokovfan87 - interesting results. Out of the tap I'm about 1, 20g is .25-.5 (plants taking it up?), and my 10g is around 2 ppm, and that is the cloudiest of the two tanks. Maybe a 20% wc is worth a shot in the 10g. 

Definitely interesting....

You're getting it out of the tap, which isn't a great situation for controlling it longer term.  Which generally implies you're going to have some algae issues unless you have a massive amount of plant bioload to take it in.  Water changes would essentially act as dosing the tank with potassium.  I would run an off-gas test to see what happens to the tap water after 24 hours. (aerate it with an airstone, retest for everything you can)

 

 

On 9/8/2022 at 10:27 AM, MattyM said:

Went ahead and did it. Water looks filthy - no vac'ing or anything, just siphoned right out with tubing. Params all look good. Will see if the tank looks any clearer tomorrow. (FWIW it's just been getting cloudier over the week.)

Likely is that color from the mopani.  Is it a tea color or bright green?  Yellow or beige or brown or sand colored would be the wood / tannins starting up.

[MattyM]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:39 PM, JettsPapa said:

That might be green water algae,

I've been wondering that, and tested earlier in the week with a giant white mug. It looks brown to me, and the tank doesn't have that pea soup look. To compare with the 1st pic (this pic is post-water change, and believe it or not looks better than when I woke up): 

I also lost one of the Embers last night, which is odd b/c I counted them all eating yesterday. Not sure if it's related. The dead fish had no signs of disease I could see, though the snails and shrimp ate about half of it before I noticed it up in the floating water sprite. 

On 9/8/2022 at 1:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would run an off-gas test to see what happens to the tap water after 24 hours.

Great idea, will do 👍

[MattyM]

On 9/8/2022 at 1:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Likely is that color from the mopani. 

Yeah maybe, tho I soaked it for a week and boiled before adding 2 months ago, but I'll definitely pay attention to that. The tank never really had that tea-color when viewing. Then again, both my tanks have driftwood so maybe I'm just used to a light tinge. To me, the water in the bucket looks more tan than green. 

[JettsPapa]

On 9/8/2022 at 1:04 PM, MattyM said:

I've been wondering that, and tested earlier in the week with a giant white mug. It looks brown to me, and the tank doesn't have that pea soup look. To compare with the 1st pic (this pic is post-water change, and believe it or not looks better than when I woke up): 

Then it probably is tannins.

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:16 AM, MattyM said:

Yeah maybe, tho I soaked it for a week and boiled before adding 2 months ago, but I'll definitely pay attention to that.

Mine has been in water for ~4-5 years and still releases tannins.  It isn't as much as when new, but... it's always going to color the water as a tannin source.

On 9/8/2022 at 11:04 AM, MattyM said:

I also lost one of the Embers last night, which is odd b/c I counted them all eating yesterday. Not sure if it's related. The dead fish had no signs of disease I could see, though the snails and shrimp ate about half of it before I noticed it up in the floating water sprite. 

parameters at this point? 

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:16 AM, MattyM said:

Then again, both my tanks have driftwood so maybe I'm just used to a light tinge. To me, the water in the bucket looks more tan than green. 

I'm the same way.  I generally only see it when I do WCs at this point and it's a different shade than the bucket.

[MattyM]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:27 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

parameters at this point? 

Nitrites and Ammonia both at 0, Nitrates around 15. I do run a bit of CO2, but more as a boost. My kh is 8, and my PH never goes below 7.3, which is about 12ppm CO2 and it works up to that most of the day. I checked things last night, 4-5 hours after lights/CO2 went off and no fish was gasping at the surface. All fish are fine, hungry and accounted for this morning. 

Still super cloudy though, and this is def a bloom and the slight clarity improvement I got from the wc yesterday was gone in an hour. 

I'm traveling at the end of the month and was thinking of putting some Purigen packs in the tanks as a precaution for the pet care person. Those might help here, but I'm also curious as to how long this can last. 

Thanks again for all the help! Learning lots. 

 

[modified lung]

Bacteria blooms happen when there's a lot of organic carbon molecules in the water which can be caused by too much aggressive cleaning. The best thing to do is make sure you have plenty of oxygen for the fish and wait it out. When the bloom has eaten all the organic carbon, it will disappear. 

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:04 AM, MattyM said:

I've been wondering that, and tested earlier in the week with a giant white mug. It looks brown to me, and the tank doesn't have that pea soup look. To compare with the 1st pic (this pic is post-water change, and believe it or not looks better than when I woke up): 

 

I also lost one of the Embers last night, which is odd b/c I counted them all eating yesterday. Not sure if it's related. The dead fish had no signs of disease I could see, though the snails and shrimp ate about half of it before I noticed it up in the floating water sprite. 

Great idea, will do 👍

2 week old tank? That's brand new. Shoot it's likely just cycling. It is normal to get a milky color in a new tank from a bacterial bloom, it will go away on it's own. It is best to leave it be but since you put fish in it I would worry a bit for them, they will see spikes of ammonia and nitrite and of course bacteria. I think I would change a little water for them daily but don't overdo it. 

If it is not like milky (white) it could just be small particles from the gravel and some left overs. But either way 2 week old tanks should not be cleaned. 

[MattyM]

On 9/9/2022 at 12:26 PM, Wrencher_Scott said:

2 week old tank?

2 months old tank.

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 9/9/2022 at 10:29 AM, MattyM said:

2 months old tank.

ok better, but still like new. Depending of course on how you cycled it and if it has finished. It can take many weeks to cycle (every tank is of course different, but 4 to 6 weeks in not uncommon for it to clear) So at 8 weeks it should be on a good start, meaning cycled but not really "established". Your cleaning likely set you back. 

Either way, don't clean yet and go easy on the food. I know, easier said that done. 🙂