Help me learn RO stuff

[PerceptivePesce]

On 9/5/2022 at 6:07 PM, rockfisher said:

I personally think it’s over kill and shrimp. If I’m seeing it right you have very soft water of 0, and buffer of 300. Why the need for the RO?

Good question.  

I thought I'd need an ro to make water parameters suitable for goldfish.  They require about 50-150 ppm of both KH & GH, for a total of 100-300ppm of TDS (Those numbers aren't exact).  With 300ppm of KH, I don't have the TDS/ppm room to adjust GH or add ferts. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by PerceptivePesce

[tolstoy21]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:02 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

With 300ppm of KH, I don't have the TDS/ppm room to adjust GH or add ferts. 

I would ignore TDS as a meaningful total measure. My water has near 0 Kh, 3 Gh and a TDS of a bazillion! (Ok, my TDS is close to 400). So what's that TDS number tell me? Pretty much nothing. A lot of "something" is dissolved in my water.  I have Crystal Red caridina shrimp living in my water, and people claim they need a TDS of 100-140. I guess nobody notified my shrimp that they should be dead.

What does your Ph measure right now? If it's not out of the ballpark for goldfish, you'll be fine. Fish can be pretty adaptable. I wouldn't go crazy chasing numbers (says they guy who made 15 gallons of RO water today alone!).

[rockfisher]

I have almost no buffer and water that is rock hard mostly with MgSO and little Ca. But I have a bunch of tanks with all types of fish and most are pretty adaptive. I do have to keep some peat with the discus. I have found that most fish are fine unless wild caught are in the first few generations after being brought into the trade. Many fish in the the us are from near me in Florida and there water comes from the same aquifers as me. Goldfish I don’t have a ton of knowledge but a neighbor tossed in small koi in the pool next door as the home is empty and the oool has been off from a year. Now they are 10”. So I think some goldfish are pretty tough.

[PerceptivePesce]

@tolstoy21

There is a digital ph meter in the mail for me.  My old one was damaged by corrosion; I left the batteries in it.  The report from my water system says my pH ranges 8-9.  This test is Sept 2:

[PerceptivePesce]

@rockfisherAye, goldfish are a hardy, long living fish which reminds me of another reason i want optimal water conditions.  Shrimp can live up to 3 years if cared for well.  Most tropical fish can live 3-5 years in ideal conditions.  Goldfish can live up to 30 years.  I don't just want an aquarium with fish in it.  I want pets in an aquarium. 

[tolstoy21]

God, colors are so subjective! I have such a hard time with these charts. (The API nitrate chart is near impossible for me to interpret).

I'd call your Kh reading "medium" according to how I my eyes/brain perceive those colors. Ph looks in the range of 7.6-8.0 to me. Gh does look pretty negligible. 

I'd try using the API drop kit for Gh/Kh just to confirm your observations.

I like the COOP strips, but if I'm in doubt I'll take a second reading with another product (something like drops if I tested with strips, and vice versa).

Edited September 6, 2022 by tolstoy21

[PerceptivePesce]

On 9/6/2022 at 6:30 AM, tolstoy21 said:

I'd try using the API drop kit for Gh/Kh just to confirm your observations.

I used an API test on Sept 2 as well.  (In the thread I linked earlier, titled Equilibrium)  The GH never turned orange because I have 0 Ca & Mg.  The KH turned from blue to yellow on the 15th drop, and using the API conversion, that's about 270ppm of KH.

[tolstoy21]

Anyway, to wrap up my comments on this thread . . . .

I personally use RO water and like using it. It adds some work to the general upkeep of an aquarium, but in some scenarios it's worth it, and in others it's unnecessary.

RO units aren't cheap and their upkeep is a longer-term expense as you exhaust and replace DI resin, carbon filters, sediment filters, purchase re-mineralizers, etc.

In my opinion, Bulk Reef Supply is the place to go for RO equipment, supplies and accessories. They also have a very deep catalog of YouTube videos on the topic of RO -- what the different options are, how to set it all up, how it works (the concepts or RO/DI), and even do tests and show data of various configurations.

I only ask a lot of questions to try to help you come to a decision about whether or not RO is worth it for you.

If you want to give RO a try and getting a unit won't make you miss next month's rent or mortgage payment, then go for it. Everything is worth trying and experiencing first-hand, even if in the end you decide, 'Meh, on second thought this isn't for me.'

Edited September 6, 2022 by tolstoy21

[PerceptivePesce]

There are other things I'd like to use the ro filter for too.  Humidifier, quilting iron, hydroponics, and BEER!

This is why I really like the idea of a portable RO. I can move the RO to whichever sink or outside spigot I need.

If I can figure out if limestone is in our aquifer, maybe I can make bourbon with our tap. 😊 I don't know much about distilling bourbon but I've heard limestone water is needed.  I have a name for my bourbon already!  Fish Barrel Bourbon.

 

[flyingcow]

On 9/6/2022 at 9:35 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

There are other things I'd like to use the ro filter for too.  Humidifier, quilting iron, hydroponics, and BEER!

This is why I really like the idea of a portable RO. I can move the RO to whichever sink or outside spigot I need.

If I can figure out if limestone is in our aquifer, maybe I can make bourbon with our tap. 😊 I don't know much about distilling bourbon but I've heard limestone water is needed.  I have a name for my bourbon already!  Fish Barrel Bourbon.

 

If ya had limestone, I'd suspect you'd be seeing plenty of calcium in the water unless it is being precipitated out or softened. But that's no issue, you can buy Calcium Carbonate and add it back to RO water to get the same thing.  Beware of brewing with RO water! The rabbit hole goes very deep very quickly!

The low GH and high KH is interesting. I wonder what is precipitating the calcium out (assuming that's what is happening). Do you have any water treatment systems, or are on city water? I'm up in NH, so we get our hardness from some limestone, so the GH and KH are about the same here. I also build back RO water for my tanks. My hardness isn't too bad (143ppm), but my pH is through the roof (8.8), so I'm suspecting some other forces at play. When I build back RO water It lands in the low 7's in my tank.

[PerceptivePesce]

Woo! My pH meter arrived!  It says 8.4

On 9/6/2022 at 8:47 AM, flyingcow said:

If ya had limestone, I'd suspect you'd be seeing plenty of calcium in the water unless it is being precipitated out or softened. But that's no issue, you can buy Calcium Carbonate and add it back to RO water to get the same thing.  Beware of brewing with RO water! The rabbit hole goes very deep very quickly!

The low GH and high KH is interesting. I wonder what is precipitating the calcium out (assuming that's what is happening). Do you have any water treatment systems, or are on city water? I'm up in NH, so we get our hardness from some limestone, so the GH and KH are about the same here. I also build back RO water for my tanks. My hardness isn't too bad (143ppm), but my pH is through the roof (8.8), so I'm suspecting some other forces at play. When I build back RO water It lands in the low 7's in my tank.

Do you distill liquor? I don't know much about it but I know enough to understand it ain't easy.

I chatted with a municipal water worker through email.  But I feel like he got cold feet, I could be wrong.  I guess we'll see if he replies with helpful info.  

Thanks for letting me know about the pH of your built water. That's comforting.  What products do you use?

[flyingcow]

I just use Seachem Equilibrium, Acid Buffer, and Alkaline Buffer. It's not perfect, but it is simple enough, and gets me what I'm looking for. Some people have tried to use this to adjust their tap water, but that doesn't seem to end well for most. I would only use it on RO water.

I don't distill anymore, but I operated a small research distillery for a few years. The legal hurdles make it more than I want to deal with on a regular basis unless a distillery hired me. Most of my experience is in brewing and not distilling. 

I'd guess the city is softening before distribution to keep the pipes happy.

[modified lung]

On 9/5/2022 at 6:02 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

I thought I'd need an ro to make water parameters suitable for goldfish.  They require about 50-150 ppm of both KH & GH, for a total of 100-300ppm of TDS (Those numbers aren't exact).  With 300ppm of KH, I don't have the TDS/ppm room to adjust GH or add ferts. 

I wouldn't worry much about the TDS of your tap unless it's over 800 or something like that.  Mosy fish can adapt to a wide range of TDS as long as it's reasonably consistent. TDS is mostly useful to monitor the buildup of stuff in your water over time.

[PerceptivePesce]

@Mmiller2001why is potassium carbonate added to fresh ro instead of magnesium carbonate and calcium carbonate? 

[Mmiller2001]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:34 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

@Mmiller2001why is potassium carbonate added to fresh ro instead of magnesium carbonate and calcium carbonate? 

It's easy to calculate and easy to get. You can certainly use the others as long as you hit the correct ratios.

Potassium carbonate isn't without its problems, but for the most part, K is easy to adjust.

[PerceptivePesce]

On 9/9/2022 at 9:31 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

It's easy to calculate and easy to get. You can certainly use the others as long as you hit the correct ratios.

Potassium carbonate isn't without its problems, but for the most part, K is easy to adjust.

Thanks, I was reading about some ro remineralizers specifically made for shrimp and those products use CaCO & MgCO. 

[PerceptivePesce]

@Mmiller2001you don't keep fauna in your tanks, right?  So that's why you like KCO?

[Mmiller2001]

On 9/9/2022 at 9:15 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

@Mmiller2001you don't keep fauna in your tanks, right?  So that's why you like KCO?

I have fully planted tanks and fish. I also have a planted shrimp/QT tank.

[PerceptivePesce]

On 9/9/2022 at 11:03 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

I have fully planted tanks and fish. I also have a planted shrimp/QT tank.

Ah, I see. Your scapes and plants are gorgeous 😍  I'm on pg11 of ur tank journal.  I need a break. 😁

Do you still use inert substrate and hardscape?  CO2?

What kinda shrimps you got?

[Mmiller2001]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:17 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

Ah, I see. Your scapes and plants are gorgeous 😍  I'm on pg11 of ur tank journal.  I need a break. 😁

Do you still use inert substrate and hardscape?  CO2?

What kinda shrimps you got?

I don't use any hardscape anymore but I'm going back to it in one of the tanks. One tank has Aqua soil the other tank is inert and I have neocardina, just the cherry shrimp.

[PerceptivePesce]

@Mmiller2001I asked about co2 because i read some folks on the internet talking about how the KH compounds with o3 break down better with co2 and that if you're not using co2 then kh compounds with o4 are better.  Something like that.  I tried to find more info on this but I cant find anything, so I'm not sure if this is true.  Do you know?

 

The potassium carbonate you linked is K2CO3 and I was wondering if you chose that bc you use co2.

[Mmiller2001]

I'm not familiar with any process with ozone and CO2. I chose potassium carbonate as the potassium component complements a planted tank. I personally run 0dKH in my CO2 tanks as most plants excel in low pH low KH environments. When I swap the 75 over, I'm going to run about 1dKH because Crypts do enjoy a bit of KH.

I do run 2dKH in the shrimp tank for obvious reasons.

[PerceptivePesce]

On 9/10/2022 at 9:00 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

I do run 2dKH in the shrimp tank for obvious reasons.

With K2CO3?

It was easy to confirm the CaSO4.2H2O and MgSO4.7H2O you linked from GLA.  There's lots of info about GH.  Not so much for KH.

[Mmiller2001]

On 9/10/2022 at 8:11 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

With K2CO3

Yes.

[PerceptivePesce]

On 9/10/2022 at 9:14 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

Yes.

Cool.  I'm gonna keep trying to fully understand this but for now I'm just gonna monkey see, monkey do. 🙊

What do you use for micros? Please 🙏 tell me you use a premix!  GLA has some micro powder...