Gourami/ Bolivian ram lovers can I pick your brain?

[Guppysnail]

Here is the tank story and what I want to achieve. This has recently become my must have goal of a tank.

29g hard 7.6-7.8 averagely sometimes 8ish any temp can be had as stock that will remain has very wide range. 
 

current stock accidental breeding pair longfin lemon blue eyed BN pleco, neocaridina (the tiny terrorists overpopulate so if some become snacks I’m fine if they all do I have gobs to many more to use as live food) nerite snails and bladder snails as well as 3 awesome cool types of hydra I only get to see occasionally (they are not real active) Also guppies most past childbearing age so when the girls age out the boys get moved if I can recreate the look I want on a smaller scale.  Hauling guppies 45 minutes to donate free to the LF sis getting to be to much and running 3 tanks to support the overpopulation is getting boring. I love them so much and their friendly personality but it’s time to move forward to something I enjoy as much without that much work and tank space.

New obsession dream

My friend showed me videos of his GINORMOUS cichlid tanks, shubunkin dojo tanks and other. I MUST recreate these colorful, fun dynamic artwork looks on a peaceful non aggressive nano basis. With the fish as the eye catching showstoppers vs the planted tank itself being the focal point. 
 

I was going to do Honey gourami but went with guppies several years ago because well guppies are so friendly and fun.  After seeing my friends tanks gourami are the closest to the cichlid look yet are relatively peaceful, may eat pleco babies(I always have way to many of those so I’m not concerned   You get the idea 😁

Are honey gourami a good choice for this tank?  Any suggestions on other gourami or similar type fish (that you folks have personally kept) that may be better yet still mostly peaceful?  (Zero interest in any schooling fish) I want centerpiece fish (not betta)

I have no experience with gourami so looking for first hand experience from those who have kept them.

@laritheloud I consider you the go to for gourami knowledge if you don’t mind chiming in some thoughts  I want ones LEAST prone to iridovirus.  
 

With Covid limiting stocking choices for so long I’m having a blast with new to me critters  Thank you all for sharing so much of your first hand experiences keeping all these critters 🤗

Current tank.  I can change layout etc to accommodate fish happiness.  Second silly attempt at Dr Seuss tree and riparian plants are permanent.

Edit add thought…can I introduce the gourami before the guppies age out?  Maybe fry control if any still pop a batch out?

edit add Bolivian rams to possible wow look at those fish inhabitants 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Guppysnail

[laritheloud]

Honey gouramis would be fine but I've had mixed luck with them! You can fit 4 to 6 in your tank.

3 out of my 4 honey gouramis passed away of mysterious cause, very close to one another. My remaining honey, a beautiful male sunset variant, is doing great! I've had him for about a year, going strong.

Thicklip Gouramis would be a good fit, too. They are straight orange unless you can find the wild type color morph, which I've never seen in the states. Thicklips are much more interactive and have louder personalities than honey gouramis. I find them to be more delightful to keep because they like to come up and feeler/peck at my hands for food. Wonderful fish, I have had no thicklip losses so far and have kept them for more than a year and a half. I'd keep a group of 4 max in your 29 gallon tank.

If you can find them, Croaking Gouramis (Trichopsis VITTATA), not sparkling gouramis, are unusual, gorgeous, and they'd make a statement. You should be able to keep a group in the tank. They're a bucket list gourami for me!

If you're willing to swing slightly more aggressive look at black paradise fish. I've heard they are less aggressive than traditional paradise fish but just as stunning. They grow a bit larger than the gouramis I listed above.

You could technically do a pearl gourami in that tank, but I'd feel more comfortable getting them a group in a 40 breeder minimum.

TL;DR honeys are the popular, peaceful, shy choice but they are not my personal top suggestion if you favor personality over popping colors. It's also getting tougher to find healthy stock of honeys, so as long as you go in with that attitude and enjoy them while you have them, they're wonderful.

Good luck! I'd love to see what you end up getting!

[Guppysnail]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:38 AM, laritheloud said:

more interactive and have louder personalities

This is what I want! Thank you I will look into these are there any specific ones I should get or are they all the same? The more aggressive paradise fish are not for me. I get anxiety over aggression and it makes me not enjoy tanks. Even my CPD stress me when they become boisterous with one another and nipping occurs. 

[eatyourpeas]

I wonderful companion to my morning coffee, @Guppysnail and @laritheloud.

I have only experienced Sparkling gouramis and my little couple is so much fun to watch, but besides their stunning blue eyes, they are pretty subtle and definitely not a tank statement. 🙂

Looking forward to seeing what you decide to go with!

Edited August 15, 2022 by eatyourpeas

[Guppysnail]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:47 AM, eatyourpeas said:

I wonderful companion to my morning coffee, @Guppysnail and @laritheloud.

I have only experienced Sparkling gouramis and my little couple is so much fun to watch, but besides their stunning blue eyes, they are pretty subtle and definitely not a tank statement. 🙂

Looking forward to seeing what you decide to go with!

 

On 8/15/2022 at 10:47 AM, eatyourpeas said:

I wonderful companion to my morning coffee, @Guppysnail and @laritheloud.

I have only experienced Sparkling gouramis and my little couple is so much fun to watch, but besides their stunning blue eyes, they are pretty subtle and definitely not a tank statement. 🙂

Looking forward to seeing what you decide to go with!

I’m definitely looking for “in your face” make a statement Fish unfortunately the ones I know of are aggressive to downright gleefully murderous 🤣

[laritheloud]

I would say most gouramis exhibit very similar behaviors (aside from varying shyness) and aside from the paradise fish you could choose whatever appeals to you 🙂 ENJOY! 

[JettsPapa]

I'm a big fan of pearl gouramis, but I agree with @laritheloud that a 29 gallon tank is probably a little on the small size.  Does it have to be gouramis?  Would you consider a pair of Bolivian rams?

[Guppysnail]

On 8/15/2022 at 11:49 AM, JettsPapa said:

I'm a big fan of pearl gouramis, but I agree with @laritheloud that a 29 gallon tank is probably a little on the small size.  Does it have to be gouramis?  Would you consider a pair of Bolivian rams?

I actually looked at rams since they are cichlids. The word CICHLID scares me due to aggression.  I’ve read a lot that they can be peaceful but I just don’t know enough.  I would love to hear about them and numbers /ratio and if they would leave my sweet BN pair in peace if you would like to tell me more about them to ease my fear of the cichlid murder gene. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Guppysnail

[JettsPapa]

On 8/15/2022 at 11:04 AM, Guppysnail said:

I actually looked at rams since they are cichlids. The word CICHLID scares me due to aggression.  I’ve read a lot that they can be peaceful but I just don’t know enough.  I would love to hear about them and numbers /ratio and if they would leave my sweet BN pair in peace if you would like to tell me more about them to ease my fear of the cichlid murder gene. 

I've only been keeping them for a few months, so I probably wouldn't be the best person to advise you, but the pair I have are in a 65 gallon tank with rainbowfish, tetras, corys, and a bristle nose pleco.  I haven't noticed them bothering the other fish at all.

[Guppysnail]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:43 PM, JettsPapa said:

I've only been keeping them for a few months, so I probably wouldn't be the best person to advise you, but the pair I have are in a 65 gallon tank with rainbowfish, tetras, corys, and a bristle nose pleco.  I haven't noticed them bothering the other fish at all.

Well this definitely adds them to the possibility list. 

[ACW]

Bolivian rams will happily eat cherry shrimp--I found that out yesterday*. As you mention that you're not too concerned about your neocaridina becoming a snack, that doesn't rule them out, and honestly they colored up very nicely after a tasty red meal. The rams have been peaceful with everything else in the tank though (rasboras, ember tetras, panda garras). 

(*I was cleaning out a semi-abandoned tank, and found I had at least 150 more shrimp in there than I'd realized, so I tossed a few into the tank with the rams while putting in a half-dozen kuhli loaches that I'd thought were long-gone as well. All in all, the tank wasn't nearly as abandoned as I'd thought...)

[laritheloud]

RE: Cichlid vs Gouramis, there are plenty of more peaceful dwarf cichlids that would be a match for your tank, but it depends on the look you want. Gouramis fill out the top of the tank. Cichlids stay around the bottom exclusively. I have a pair of Anomalachromis Thomasi that are really lovely and underrated in my 55 gallon along with my EBA, and they are very peaceful -- even alongside my gouramis. Gourami males will chase female gouramis a little as part of their courtship and asserting dominance, but it shouldn't be any significant damage.

I did recently acquire a pair of nanochromis splendens. They are absolutely gorgeous tiny cichlids but they will eat your shrimp for SURE. Probably bristlenose wigglers, too. This is them:

I have placed a thicklip in my shrimp tank before and didn't see a significant dent in neocaridina population. My honey gourami lives with tetras, cories, neocaridina (bloody mary), and amano shrimp, and i still see all the species I placed into the tank coming out. If you decide on a small cichlid, get some caves or a coconut hut. 

[Guppysnail]

@laritheloud this is significant information. My male BN pleco actively aggressively chases the guppies from the bottom of the tank. The entire floor is HIS domain. My girl just ignores them.  So maybe rams would not be a good choice. The gourami were my thought because I always adored yours and looked forward to seeing your posts. They seem very inquisitive and somewhat human interactive. The look I want is to look at the tank and the first thing you see is happy amazing beautiful fish then plant accents vs a planted tank with fish accents. Personality is a big thing though. They must be friendly, peaceful and an easy care fish.  My age doesn’t allow for delicate or fussy fish who freak out at one bursitis missed water change.

[Patrick_G]

My main experience with Bolivians is with the Aquarium Co-op display tank. They seem to be all over the tank. I love the big eyes that give them such a derpy look, I just wish they had a touch more color. 
 

 

[Guppysnail]

On 8/15/2022 at 2:30 PM, Patrick_G said:

My main experience with Bolivians is with the Aquarium Co-op display tank. They seem to be all over the tank. I love the big eyes that give them such a derpy look, I just wish they had a touch more color. 
 

 

ORD THANKS. I’m not concerned about color (after all I’m totally smitten with my little brown least killi 🤣) just larger active healthy fish. I like the feelers on gourami it makes them interesting. 

[Cinnebuns]

On 8/15/2022 at 9:38 AM, laritheloud said:

TL;DR honeys are the popular, peaceful, shy choice but they are not my personal top suggestion if you favor personality over popping colors. It's also getting tougher to find healthy stock of honeys, so as long as you go in with that attitude and enjoy them while you have them, they're wonderful.

@Guppysnail Based on my experience with honey and thick lipped I 100% agree with this assessment. Honey gouramo are very shy and thick lipped are very fun to watch. I only saw my honey out occasionally at first. Then my tank started to get a little "louder" when I added more male guppies. After that I NEVER saw them. They would always hide. I ended up rehoming them to a guy who wanted to breed them because I realized they were not happy in my tank. Thick lipped however have always been a pleasure. They get slightly larger but they are fun to watch!

Based on fry control, I didn't see they did much in this department tbh. At one point I had 3 honey and 3 thick lipped but still was able to pull out 40+ fry after 24 hours. I do think they ate some, but after 24 hours they started to completely ignore them. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Cinnebuns

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:04 PM, Guppysnail said:

The word CICHLID scares me due to aggression.

My bolivian ram is peaceful in the community.  However, she will run off fish that are trying to take her food.  She won't bite them, just warn them and kind of charge at them until they leave. Also the bolivian rams will get more defensive if they are breeding/protecting a breeding area.  She should be grouped in with "cleanup crew" because she is always picking at stuff on the bottom, to see what it is and if it's tasty.

The ram greets me at the glass every single time.  She is super social with me.  She also doesn't scare easily. I can be aquascaping stuff right next to her with tongs and she isn't phased at all.  I have to be careful around her, because sometimes she doesn't move out of the way.  She's just like, whatever man.

Here she is hauling butt with the squash!

 

 

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/15/2022 at 2:46 PM, Guppysnail said:

I like the feelers on gourami it makes them interesting. 

Plus don't forget they make bubble nests!

[Guppysnail]

On 8/15/2022 at 3:51 PM, Cinnebuns said:

@Guppysnail Based on my experience with honey and thick lipped I 100% agree with this assessment. Honey gouramo are very shy and thick lipped are very fun to watch. I only saw my honey out occasionally at first. Then my tank started to get a little "louder" when I added more male guppies. After that I NEVER saw them. They would always hide. I ended up rehoming them to a guy who wanted to breed them because I realized they were not happy in my tank. Thick lipped however have always been a pleasure. They get slightly larger but they are fun to watch!

Based on fry control, I didn't see they did much in this department tbh. At one point I had 3 honey and 3 thick lipped but still was able to pull out 40+ fry after 24 hours. I do think they ate some, but after 24 hours they started to completely ignore them. 

Thank you. Good stuff. I really think I’m sold on the thick lips thanks to you wonderful folks. Knowing as my girls age out (they age out faster than boys for me) I can consider adding them. 
How many do you folks think and what male female ratio. I want lighter stock but don’t want the girl not breeding to be outcast. Maybe 1 boy-3 girls?  Or am I WAY off base. 
I love this forum and being able to consult folks who have experienced the critters I’m thinking of adding. You just can’t put a price on that kind of insight 🤗

[Guppysnail]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:11 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

My bolivian ram is peaceful in the community.  However, she will run off fish that are trying to take her food.  She won't bite them, just warn them and kind of charge at them until they leave. Also the bolivian rams will get more defensive if they are breeding/protecting a breeding area.  She should be grouped in with "cleanup crew" because she is always picking at stuff on the bottom, to see what it is and if it's tasty.

The ram greets me at the glass every single time.  She is super social with me.  She also doesn't scare easily. I can be aquascaping stuff right next to her with tongs and she isn't phased at all.  I have to be careful around her, because sometimes she doesn't move out of the way.  She's just like, whatever man.

Here she is hauling butt with the squash!

 

 

 

I’m really fond of these Bolivian rams. Next time I change stock in one of my other 20l tanks I’m thinking of trying them. That bottom behaves or though with my very territorial bn just won’t be peaceful. 😝

[Patrick_G]

On 8/15/2022 at 11:46 AM, Guppysnail said:

I’m not concerned about color (after all I’m totally smitten with my little brown least killi 🤣) just larger active healthy fish. I like the feelers on gourami it makes them interesting. 

I agree, gourami, when they’re not aggressive, are great community fish. Their behavior as they slowly patrol the tank is really fun to watch 

[laritheloud]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:54 PM, Guppysnail said:

Thank you. Good stuff. I really think I’m sold on the thick lips thanks to you wonderful folks. Knowing as my girls age out (they age out faster than boys for me) I can consider adding them. 
How many do you folks think and what male female ratio. I want lighter stock but don’t want the girl not breeding to be outcast. Maybe 1 boy-3 girls?  Or am I WAY off base. 
I love this forum and being able to consult folks who have experienced the critters I’m thinking of adding. You just can’t put a price on that kind of insight 🤗

I aimed for 1 male 4 females and ended up with 3 males 2 females. No problems at all, they're still super peaceful, so if you end up with 2 males 2 females you should still be okay. One male will emerge as dominant and darken in color over the others.

Sometimes when thicklip gouramis are very young their sexes are tougher to distinguish. In general, for a male, you'll have a more pointed dorsal fin and darker color. Females will have a 'gentler' face with slightly smaller lips, a more marmalade-y lighter color, and a rounded dorsal fin. Very round dorsal fins, smaller lips, and lighter coloration usually turn out females; they'll also have a somewhat rounder and fuller belly area. Males will look more angular and square and dark, but they will absolutely darken more when they're settled in the tank. Males will also grow slightly bigger than females, but they top out at around 3 inches.

edit: the most fun part about these fish IMO is that if you tap the glass in front of their faces they will try to feeler your fingers. They will nibble your fingers at the surface looking for food. They don't swim off when you're cleaning and they're just super sweet and interactive. I really don't think you'll be disappointed in their personalities.

Edited August 15, 2022 by laritheloud

[laritheloud]

A few videos of my sleepy evening gouramis. They are diurnal and most active in the morning and throughout the day. In the morning they are up front and center begging for food.

I mention this in the videos but there are some minor fin nips on my gouramis. This isn't anything to be alarmed about. Sometimes the males nip the females/subdominant males; they are typically NOT stressed by this and keep behaving/eating perfectly fine. As long as the feelers are not nipped and they don't start losing scales along their sides the fin tears are completely superficial, and 90% of the time they will hang out like buddies together.

At night they all drift with their feelers out in the upper left side of the tank to sleep. It's totally adorable.

 

[Guppysnail]

On 8/15/2022 at 8:03 PM, laritheloud said:

A few videos of my sleepy evening gouramis. They are diurnal and most active in the morning and throughout the day. In the morning they are up front and center begging for food.

I mention this in the videos but there are some minor fin nips on my gouramis. This isn't anything to be alarmed about. Sometimes the males nip the females/subdominant males; they are typically NOT stressed by this and keep behaving/eating perfectly fine. As long as the feelers are not nipped and they don't start losing scales along their sides the fin tears are completely superficial, and 90% of the time they will hang out like buddies together.

At night they all drift with their feelers out in the upper left side of the tank to sleep. It's totally adorable.

 

Oh my. They are even sweeter than I imagined 😍. Do you have any trouble finding homes for all the babies?  Seriously fish says 500-1000 eggs/ spawn. Very daunting.  That sounds like my guppy issue revisited. I’m imagining not all survive.  Mutt guppies are hard to rehome everyone wants a “strain”. How do you deal with that many babies?  How often do they spawn? 
 

Next question…how well do the adults deal with water flow?  I have a hob, adjustable flow canister, and ugf on the 29 as well as my two backup qt/ grow out sponges for my breeding BN pleco. It’s not overwhelming flow but it is there. I condition my guppies from birth with higher flow and they don’t seem to notice. Even new fry play in the current. 
 

Those videos and touching the glass at your finger with feelers just sealed the deal for me. Are they the sunset thick lipped?  
 

How many of each sex should I start with?

Edited August 16, 2022 by Guppysnail

[laritheloud]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:41 AM, Guppysnail said:

Oh my. They are even sweeter than I imagined 😍. Do you have any trouble finding homes for all the babies?  Seriously fish says 500-1000 eggs/ spawn. Very daunting.  That sounds like my guppy issue revisited. I’m imagining not all survive.  Mutt guppies are hard to rehome everyone wants a “strain”. How do you deal with that many babies?  How often do they spawn? 
 

Next question…how well do the adults deal with water flow?  I have a hob, adjustable flow canister, and ugf on the 29 as well as my two backup qt/ grow out sponges for my breeding BN pleco. It’s not overwhelming flow but it is there. I condition my guppies from birth with higher flow and they don’t seem to notice. Even new fry play in the current. 
 

Those videos and touching the glass at your finger with feelers just sealed the deal for me. Are they the sunset thick lipped?  
 

How many of each sex should I start with?

Mine have actually NEVER spawned, even with low flow and plenty of floating plants. I have seen dancing and courting but I've never had a successful gourami spawn. Pair that with it being difficult to actually raise gourami babies to adulthood in a community tank and you probably won't have much of an issue beyond an occasional bubble nest. It's "easy" to spawn them, sure, but you won't be overrun with babies because gourami fry hatch sooooo small and the mortality rate is high. I don't mind because I love them for what they are, my interactive little water pups that gently feeler and nip my finger.

With water flow, they don't particularly love it. If you have a stiller area of the tank they will hang out there more than directly in the flow. On my 55 gallon I have an HOB and a fluval canister plus an airstone, the left side of the tank is pretty low-flow and I direct the spray bar toward the back wall. I once put a powerhead in that tank (I've since moved it to the 20 gallon long) and they were okay, but preferred less flow. You can always baffle your HOB -- they'll let you know how they're handling the flow. 

These are sunset thick lipped gourami. There is a wild color morph that I have never actually seen in the US, though I've looked around. It's beautiful but the colors are very late to develop. They have blue and orange bands like a dwarf gourami or a banded gourami. You'll probably only see the sunset thick lipped available.

For sex ratio, aim for one male to the group. If you end up with more than one male by mistake, it probably won't actually be a big deal; gouramis prefer to live in a group and don't really school, so group size is more important than sex ratio, in the end. I've seen folks be successful with 6 thicklips in a 20 long, but I'd probably start with 4 in a 29 and see how it goes!