Help Please!

[MommaOlenik]

I have had this Berta tank for 2 years with NO issues and Moby is the coolest fish ever. It is 5 gallons with gravel substrate. Last month I tested the water and it was super high in ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites out of nowhere. The only think I did was switch out the carbon filter for a new one (whisper) like I always do a week or two prior. Started dosing seachem balance and 5% water changes daily with vacuum. Plus using Prime daily as suggested by local fish store. Calling around someone suggested it may be the plants so I threw them out in a panic and have since got more. Got the ammonia and nitrites down to zero and then the nitrates were off the chart. Got Algone per recommendation. Nitrates went down in two days. Then the ammonia spiked super high about a week ago. Watched the video on YouTube from co-op and thinking it may be tap water… have been doing 5-10% water changes daily using spring water that tests clean. And have not been feeding him for at least 4 days now and the only thing it is doing is rising. And now the nitrites are starting to look like they may be coming back. Someone please help, I don’t know what else to do and I know he is not feeling well. He has been hanging out by the filter in the back just staring at the wall and he has NEVER done that. He is usually greeting me happy and dancing. I appreciate anything you can offer. Thank you!!!

[MommaOlenik]

Another odd thing is my ph was steady at around 6.2 since the beginning of time and now it is up over 7 just in the last week. My tap water was always over a 7 but when I would test the tank it would be at that 6 mark. Just trying to let y’all know what I know. I’m losing my mind knowing that I should be doing something I just don’t know what to do. 

[ccc24]

1) Nitrates aren’t deadly. Planted tank keepers will maintain somewhere south of 40 ppm (I personally shoot for 20-40). Nitrates are generally why one would change water. Plants consume nitrates - so tossing all of them may be what is causing them to suddenly appear. 
Test your tap water. I personally have chloramines in my water which cause it to test positive for ammonia, straight after dechlorinating. 

[MommaOlenik]

Thank you for the advise. The problem started and then I got rid of plants from some bad advise but got new ones within 2 days. I no longer have nitrates or nitrates. Just over 1ppm of ammonia and it seems to be going higher everyday even with water changes and not feeding him. 

 

[MommaOlenik]

Also I decided to slowly transition him to spring water because my tap water was testing high in ammonia and obviously something was going on with the nitrogen filter so it just made sense so I’m no longer using tap water. 

[Flumpweesel]

To me this sounds like your cycle has crashed so you are now going to have to go through a fish in cycle process.  Ammonia is very toxic to fish so large water change to get that number down, then continuous small changes to keep the fish healthy, this can take a long time to resolve as keeping the ammonia level safe for the fish slows down the cycling process.  

Plants will help and prime can bind the ammonia for a short period but the safest way for your fish is water changes. I would try not let the ammonia get above 0.25 but you are aiming for zero. 

Cycles can crash for many reasons changing out the cartridge or cleaning algae can contribute.  I have stuck some links below that will no doubt explain things far better than I 

 

[MommaOlenik]

Thank you I appreciate you sharing. The problem is that we already went through all that. My cycle crashed and my poor fish had to already go through the fish in cycle over the past three weeks. We went through the high ammonia, then nitrate, and finally the spike in nitrates. Then it was good for a day or two and now we are back up to the high ammonia and nitrites are coming back again. That’s where I’m stuck and don’t know what I’m doing wrong. I’m doing water changes, adding beneficial bacteria using prime to help with toxicity, and added plants over 2 weeks ago after throwing the big ones he always had from some bad advise. I’m spending a lot of time and money and just want to help make it better. I’m willing to try anything. Has anyone here had something similar can someone help me please figure out what to do?

Edited July 4, 2022 by MommaOlenik

[MommaOlenik]

At this point I am really fighting the urge to remove him from the tank and put him into another container or something until I can figure out what is going on. Is there any reason I should not do this? Again I am not new to the hobby and have successfully maintained tanks over 150+ gallons and even had a breeding cichlid tank. I have had this betta for over two years with no issues and now am just trying to make sure this fish doesn’t get sick because I’m missing something. Thank you!

[Intuos]

Do you have access to cycled media (another tank, friend or lfs) to try and kick start the cycle again. Or maybe try something like fluval Cycle or api quickstart along with 50% daily water changes. 

Floating plants like dwarf water lettuce can also help with water quality as they are fast growing and in my experience bettas love swimming around in roots. 

[MommaOlenik]

I have tried to get cycled media with no luck. Thank you for the other suggestions I will order them both right away. Thank you!!!

[MommaOlenik]

I just ordered the plants and fluval. Thank you, I appreciate any advise I can get!!!

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/3/2022 at 8:28 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Also I decided to slowly transition him to spring water because my tap water was testing high in ammonia and obviously something was going on with the nitrogen filter so it just made sense so I’m no longer using tap water. 

Might be due to chloramines in your tap water. 

On 7/3/2022 at 7:47 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Started dosing seachem balance and 5% water changes daily with vacuum. Plus using Prime daily as suggested by local fish store.

Can you show what you mean by seachem balance? I'm not finding the correct thing when searching online.  I'm trying to figure out what it is specifically.

For prime, do not dose it more than once per 24-36 hours (per their website).  They also have other things that are very similar to prime which get dosed to help with ammonia and you might be unknowingly double dosing.

Carbon might be the easiest way to handle the ammonia from the tap, especially if it's chloramines.  (Adding a carbon block filter to your water supply, basically)

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/3/2022 at 7:47 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Got the ammonia and nitrites down to zero and then the nitrates were off the chart.

Can you please let us know the test results currently?  Nitrites usually can be handled by adding aquarium salt / water changes without too much stress on the fish.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/pages/water-changes

On 7/3/2022 at 8:07 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Just trying to let y’all know what I know. I’m losing my mind knowing that I should be doing something I just don’t know what to do. 

First thing I can say is to just take a breath and let's work through the issue before we do anything to cause more stress.  We need to fully understand the issues, potentially run some tests, and then verify everything before we can really offer the best advice on how to fix it all. 

The best thing to do right now is to test, absorb information, report issues, and then we go ahead and determine the path forward.

On 7/4/2022 at 3:45 PM, MommaOlenik said:

We went through the high ammonia, then nitrate, and finally the spike in nitrates. Then it was good for a day or two and now we are back up to the high ammonia and nitrites are coming back again.

This is where we just need to figure out what's going on and find the source of the ammonia.

Waste?
Overfeeding?
Tap water?

Once we find the source, we can figure out how to deal with it, so to speak.

On 7/4/2022 at 3:55 PM, MommaOlenik said:

At this point I am really fighting the urge to remove him from the tank and put him into another container or something until I can figure out what is going on. Is there any reason I should not do this?

The main reason not to is because you might have an issue with tapwater. The tank should be large enough to handle the betta.  If it's not from the tap water, moving the fish to a QT tank and determining what is going on will help you to stabalize his water with daily WCs and will help you isolate problems with the tank.

Edited July 5, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[MommaOlenik]

Sorry it’s seachem stability. The nitrites seem to have gone down today but the ammonia is still up. I am no longer using tap water. Just spring water. I have carbon in my filter cartridge but I’m afraid to touch it to change anything. Is there something you suggest?

Thank you I’m trying to not panic but it’s hard cause I know he is stressed. I am doing 5-10% water changes of spring water everyday- no tap water and vacuuming the substrate each time. I even put him in a container and sifted through all of the gravel to make sure there wasn’t anything in there. He gets three small pellets every other to every three days but I have not fed him in 5 days now. Plants are healthy with no dead or decaying leaves. 

[MommaOlenik]

I did add a sponge about two weeks ago just in case I needed to change the filter cartridge since I read it can help with holding some bacteria lost with switching it out. Do you think it would be okay to go ahead and switch it now to get a fresh one in there?

Also, the water lettuce and banana plants I ordered for him should be here tomorrow. But he has three Anubis somethings in there already. 

[MommaOlenik]

I just did a 50% water change- tested the water and as always no ammonia in the new water. I put the old filter cartridge into a plastic container with tank water just in case and changed the filter. Tested the water about a half hour later and no change!!! I don’t understand 😭🤨😡

[quikv6]

I know this is stressful. But, in my opinion,  you should not be changing a filter cartridge when you are having ammonia issues. It is just going to set you back further from regaining the cycle. Ultimately, cartridges are a marketing thing. Eventually, it would be wiser to et some course sponge in there. It's nearly permanent, and all you have to do is rinse it in tank water when it needs it. (Not too often.)

Prime can help detox any ammonia for up to 48 hours. You can also dose up to 5x the recommended dosage for dechlorination.

[MommaOlenik]

I have a sponge in there and the cartridge was pretty dirty. But I put it in a container of tank water just in case I see it go up. That’s literally the last thing I can think of that might be contributing to the ammonia issue. So fingers crossed. I have been using prime but really just trying to find the source of the ammonia at this point since the tank has cycled. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/5/2022 at 6:09 PM, MommaOlenik said:

I put the old filter cartridge into a plastic container with tank water just in case and changed the filter. Tested the water about a half hour later and no change!!! I don’t understand 😭🤨😡

I need to know a few things.

1. What is your filtration, how is it setup? (I see the picture above, internal, etc)
2. Please perform these tests below.

Quote

A. Take a sample of water from the tap and test it for KH, GH, PH. Ammonia, Nitrates
B.  Take the same sample of water from test A and aerate it with an airstone for 24 hours, retest.  (THIS is the value that actually matters for your tank)
C.  Compare test B to the results of your tank parameters.

On 7/5/2022 at 5:13 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Sorry it’s seachem stability.

This is perfect and all you really need to sort out issues moving forward, apart from testing.
 

On 7/5/2022 at 5:24 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Do you think it would be okay to go ahead and switch it now to get a fresh one in there?

How long was that cartridge in the filter? What color was it?

On 7/5/2022 at 5:13 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Thank you I’m trying to not panic but it’s hard cause I know he is stressed. I am doing 5-10% water changes of spring water everyday- no tap water and vacuuming the substrate each time. I even put him in a container and sifted through all of the gravel to make sure there wasn’t anything in there. He gets three small pellets every other to every three days but I have not fed him in 5 days now. Plants are healthy with no dead or decaying leaves. 

I would think you can feed him if he will eat.  Start slow. Once a day, etc.  If parameters are stable you should be able to extend out water changes. If the QT tub is good for the fish right now, then you'd be able to keep them there for an extended period and then give them a sterile/stable environment while letting the tank itself sort out any issues.

I would recommend filling the internal filter itself with sponge.  There's a few of these that have caused the exact issues that you're going through and the majority of these issues are simply going to be due to the way cartridges work.  You don't need them and ultimately, you're much better off filling the filter with foam.  You can add a bag of ceramic media as well, if you wish (it would be on the top of the foam).  Flow is from the bottom up so it's a pretty easy one to modify.  You can buy bags of carbon designed for aquaclears that will fit into the top of the filter and that would be what you'd use in a situation like this where you're trying to remove something nasty.

On 7/5/2022 at 7:39 PM, MommaOlenik said:

I have been using prime but really just trying to find the source of the ammonia at this point since the tank has cycled. 

I would cut down on prime, especially if the tank is empty of fish. Check parameters to see if it's stable, rising, falling, etc. Along with the other tests this will give us an idea of what's going on.

[MommaOlenik]

It was about a month ago that I changed it and the issues started but I did some deep cleaning since then and dig up all the gunk from the bottom of the tank so I’m sure it got goop on it from that. Anyway, here’s a picture of it. I have a sponge in the filter and bought the ceramic stuff but it doesn’t fit in the filter so I was thinking about hiding it behind the plants or something? I may just do what you said and buy the little charcoal packs. But I’d like to use up the cartridges I have first if possible. I just need to do some more reading on what you’re suggesting to make sure I understand it. 

[Patrick_G]

@MommaOlenik I'll second @Flumpweesel’s advice on doing a large water change and going through the steps for a fish in cycle. Replacing the filter cartridge probably crashed the cycle. Test daily and change water as needed to keep ammonia below .25ppm. Before you know it you'll be cycled again! 😀

[MommaOlenik]

I just went through the cycle. The whole thing and now just have high ammonia for almost a week now. So something is causing the high ammonia and that’s what I’m trying to figure out. Thank you for the advise tho I appreciate it!

[Patrick_G]

A sponge  pre filter for your intake will add extra bio filtration and will be a backup if you have a future cycle crash. 

[MommaOlenik]

Unless y’all think o should put the dirty filter cartridge back in?

I have a sponge in there. But I didn’t the last time I changed or any of the other times I did once a month for the past 2 years. 

[MrWestCoast]

Just wanted to say make sure to shake the seachem stability bottle before using it. Makes a big difference.

Also, Prime is known to show false positive ammonia readings. Testing right after dosing with prime or few hours later can show false positive, but not as high as 1ppm, more like 0.25.