Water parameters

[sweetpoison]

I hope I’m in the right section for this. So my tank is up and running cloudy with sand but I’m working on that, no fish yet. I’m testing my parameters I forget how often to do that. I tested everything on the ninth and then again today. And the ammonia has always been zero. According to other test shouldn’t I have at least 10 nitrates?  This tank cannot be cycled in one week ~ Can it?

I am not sure what to do next. Just wait? That requires patience not one of my virtues😂

Im thinking about doing a water change and sucking up all that dust and stirring up the sand and doing something to get rid of all this dust in the sand!

Thoughts on everything?

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by sweetpoison
I still have no idea what I’m doing

[Pepere]

Have you dosed the tank with ammonia?

Rather than putting food in to decompose, I like to dose to 2ppm with Ammonia Chloride. When ammonia reads 0 and nitrites are under 0.5, I redose with another 2 ppm.

Right now on my quarantine tank I am cycling again after the biofilter was wiped out, it can metabolize the ammonia away in 24 hours, but Nitrites takes 48 hours.

Ifigure a tank is cycled decently when I can dose it with 2 ppm Ammonia and it reads 0 ammonia, 0 Nitrites 24 hours later.  At that point you will have a fair amount of nitrates.

[sweetpoison]

🤪🤪🤪

OK I have not dosed with ammonia.  So I’m getting this right ~ I don’t have any ammonia but we’re gonna dose with ammonia so I CAN have ammonia so we can get rid of it?

🤦‍♀️🫣😂

[Pepere]

You need to dose with ammonia either with adding food that will decompose and create ammonia, or by adding ammonia directly.

The ammonia is the food that nitrifying bacteria will consume as an energy source and build a colony of bacteria.  They will convert the toxic ammonia to also toxic nitrite in the process and that nitrite will feed a second strain of bacteria that will use it as an energy source to build a second colony to convert the also toxic nitrite to nitrate.

Fish will give off ammonia through their gills and from their urine and feces. Excess food that is not digested turns to ammonia as it decays…

So yes, you do have to dose with ammonia in some form in order to get nitrifying bacteria to grow…

I like dosing with ammonia chloride itself to a known concentration and then repeat dosing once it is fully converted.  When you can dose to 2ppm, and 24 hours later you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, your biofilter is pretty good.

If you simply dose with ammonia and do not seed your tank with bacteria it may take 6-8 weeks to have it cycled.

Seeding it with gravel or filter material from a cycled tank or using a quality bacteria in a bottle treatment can speed that up a fair amount.

 

Just filling the tank with water, and running the filter and heater would be highly unlikely to have cycled it in 1 week.

[Hannah Parker]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:49 PM, sweetpoison said:

🤪🤪🤪

OK I have not dosed with ammonia.  So I’m getting this right ~ I don’t have any ammonia but we’re gonna dose with ammonia so I CAN have ammonia so we can get rid of it?

🤦‍♀️🫣😂

Yes LOL seems counterproductive doesn't it? You want zero ammonia to be your end goal, but yes you do have to start off with ammonia to get that bacteria colony started. @Pepere is right on the money with their instructions for doing a fishless cycle. Ammonia works the same way with a fish-in cycle, but the fish suffers a bit is the difference. You feed the fish, he 💩, that makes ammonia and eventually your bacteria colony grows enough to convert ammonia->nitrate->nitrite (harmless in small numbers). After it is done cycling your parameters should be 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrate and 05-40ppm nitrite. I would highly recommend Brightwell Aquatics MicroBacter7 to boost your bacteria colony and give it a head start.

[sweetpoison]

I knew something was wrong. I couldn’t understand how I could have zero ammonia in one week when I haven’t done anything😂 And I knew it couldn’t be cycled. And I don’t want to put fish in there I do want to do a fishless recycle. So now I have to buy some ammonia.  Well shitums.

I will buy some don’t go away guys cause I’m gonna need you😂🥴

Edited June 13, 2022 by sweetpoison

[sweetpoison]

On 6/13/2022 at 12:01 PM, Hannah Parker said:

Brightwell Aquatics MicroBacter7 to boost your bacteria colony and give it a head start.

This one?  There are like five different ones

 

On 6/13/2022 at 11:48 AM, Pepere said:

L

I like dosing with ammonia chloride itself to a known concentration and then repeat dosing once it is fully converted.  When you can dose to 2ppm, and 24 hours later you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, your biofilter is pretty good.

If you simply dose with ammonia and do not seed your tank with bacteria it may take 6-8 weeks to have it cycled.

Seeding it with gravel or filter material from a cycled tank or using a quality bacteria in a bottle treatment can speed that up a fair amount.

 

 

Is this OK?

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by sweetpoison

[modified lung]

Also, in case you don't already know this, when people say "dose to 2 ppm ammonia" what's really meant is "2 ppm total ammonia" (which is the total amount of NH4+ and NH3 combined). The seachem alert test you have will only show the amount of NH3 and not the NH4+. So if you try to dose to 2 ppm ammonia and the seachem test shows you a much lower number, that's why.

[sweetpoison]

On 6/13/2022 at 12:28 PM, modified lung said:

Also, in case you don't already know this, when people say "dose to 2 ppm ammonia" what's really meant is "2 ppm total ammonia" (which is the total amount of NH4+ and NH3 combined). The seachem alert test you have will only show the amount of NH3 and not the NH4+. So if you try to dose to 2 ppm ammonia and the seachem test shows you a much lower number, that's why.

Modified lung.  I understand exactly what you’re saying. Said no one ever😂

when I get my bottle I will come back here for instructions is that OK cause I have no idea what you’re talking about😞

[Pepere]

Fishless Fuel is one good source of Ammonia. Dr Tims also has a good source of ammonia as well.

There are two good things with these brands. 
1.) they dont contain any surfactants or fragrances as household ammonia can.

2.) I believe both of them will dose the tank to 2 ppm if you add 4 drops per gallon of water.

A helpful note is that rocks and substrate can easily take up roughly 20% of the volume of your tank. So if you have a 20 gallon tank, you want to dose for 16 gallons of water, not 20.

Turning tank heat up to 80 degrees, and running airstones help speed bacteria growth.  Bacteria also like  alkaline PH to grow.  Ph closer to 8.2 if I remember correctly.

 

ph of 6 can greatly slow nitrifying bacteria.  The also like water a bit on the harder side.  6 degrees of GH is better than 3 degrees…

Ppm means parts per million.

the test strips and liquid tests will read out parts per million of total ammonia.  
 

i wasnt aware the Seachem monitor was testing just free ammonia and not ammonia and ammonium. 
 

that is awfully good information to have.

[sweetpoison]

You’re killing me here, Pep🥴

so either one of those would be good? Also that’s good to know to dose for 16 gallons because I have a 20 long. When I buy that one I showed you or one of the ones I showed you I’m gonna come back here and find you😂

You can run but you can’t hide😐

 

Do you think one bottle will be enough?  As far  my heater you can’t turn it up or down ~  I’ve never had one like that nor my buying one at the moment.  Light kicks on when the temperature drops I guess so there’s no turning it up.

Edited June 13, 2022 by sweetpoison

[Pepere]

Both of those products are good ones.

 

if you cant turn up your heater, no worries.  80 degrees speeds things up a bit, but not crucial.

  Ph on second strip seems a bit low assuming test strips are fresh, not expired and you carefully followed provided testvstrips.  Time parameters on using strips are kind of important.

 

raising your ph will help the beneficial bacteria grow faster.

[Pepere]

A bottle of each should be plenty.

 

[Cbass]

Not sure what everyones experience is, but I didn't have a good experience with that Seachem ammonia alert. Mine would say that there was no ammonia (yellow) but when I tested using another test kit, it was a different story. Just to be sure, you might want to get ammonia test strips and test. For all you know, you might actually have some ammonia in there!

 

[modified lung]

On 6/13/2022 at 12:34 PM, sweetpoison said:

Modified lung.  I understand exactly what you’re saying. Said no one ever😂

when I get my bottle I will come back here for instructions is that OK cause I have no idea what you’re talking about😞

Lol that's okay. It took me years to figure this stuff out. The basic thing I wanted to say is if you think you're putting in a lot of ammonia but your seachem alert card says there's very little ammonia, that's normal. It's just because Seachem measures the ammonia in a very different way.

[sweetpoison]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:36 PM, Cbass said:

Not sure what everyones experience is, but I didn't have a good experience with that Seachem ammonia alert. Mine would say that there was no ammonia (yellow) but when I tested using another test kit, it was a different story. Just to be sure, you might want to get ammonia test strips and test. For all you know, you might actually have some ammonia in there!

 

I thought that too I am going to get ammonia strips they’re actually in my cart on Amazon😂

[sweetpoison]

On 6/13/2022 at 12:36 PM, Pepere said:
 

i wasnt aware the Seachem monitor was testing just free ammonia and not ammonia and ammonium. 
 

that is awfully good information to have.

Is it a good thing?  Do you trust that little monitor in my aquarium?

[Pepere]

Test strips and API Master test kit is testing total ammonia in your tank. Total ammonia is free ammonia NH3 and ammonium NH4+.

NH3 free ammonia is what is really harmful to fish.  Addition of water conditioners can lock up the Ammonia in to Ammonium for around 24 hours.If you know your water temperature, total ammonia and PH you can use a chart to determine what the ratio of free ammonia to ammonium is for your tank with a given total Ammonia test.

 

I was not aware the Seachem monitor card was indicating specifically the Free ammonia.

this is a good thing as it is detecting for the immediately harmful free ammonia that will hurt your fish.  However your test strip or liquid test will not likely agree with the card. This can lead people to not trusting the card.

meanwhile the beneficial bacteria biofilter in the tank happily consumes both free ammonia and ammonium.

 

I like the fact the Seachem monitor card is specifically alerting you to toxic free ammonia.

For myself I test often enough I have not bothered getting the monitor card so far, but that might well change once display tank is stocked significantly.  I do like the idea of a monitor card one can glance at any time you are feeding the fish.  Of course you are weighing that against the appearance of the monitor card in your tank…

[Hannah Parker]

On 6/13/2022 at 3:26 PM, sweetpoison said:

 

Yeah this one will work perfectly

[sweetpoison]

On 6/14/2022 at 6:11 AM, Hannah Parker said:

Yeah this one will work perfectly

It’s going in my cart right  now @ Amazon and I’m getting it and I’ll be back for further instructions from you guys, the experts🥰

[sweetpoison]

On 6/14/2022 at 1:50 AM, Pepere said:

 

I was not aware the Seachem monitor card was indicating specifically the Free ammonia.

 However your test strip or liquid test will not likely agree with the card.

I like the fact the Seachem monitor card is specifically alerting you to toxic free ammonia.

 I do like the idea of a monitor card one can glance at any time you are feeding the fish.

 Of course you are weighing that against the appearance of the monitor card in your tank…

“However your test strip or liquid test will not likely agree with the card”

How come?

 

“I like the fact the Seachem monitor card is specifically alerting you to toxic free ammonia”

I like it too then☺️
 

“Of course you are weighing that against the appearance of the monitor card in your tank…”

Pep ~ I don’t understand this statement🤔

 

 

[drawnitsud]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:38 AM, sweetpoison said:

“However your test strip or liquid test will not likely agree with the card”

How come?

 

“I like the fact the Seachem monitor card is specifically alerting you to toxic free ammonia”

I like it too then☺️
 

“Of course you are weighing that against the appearance of the monitor card in your tank…”

Pep ~ I don’t understand this statement🤔

 

 

Not to answer for @Pepere but the test strip and the liquid test both show the totals for both types of ammonia where as the card you have only tests for one. As for the last statement, they meant the aesthetics of having a card visible in your tank versus the utility of being able to just glance at it. Some people would not like having another thing to break up the environment of their tank and would rather just test for it occasionally.

Also, never feel bad about not knowing what people are talking about it. Everyone is new to the hobby at some point and have the same questions/ concerns. I am only a few months ahead of you and still learn a ton by reading other peoples questions.

Good luck!

[sweetpoison]

Thank you so much you’re very kind!  I had three or four I can’t remember now, 55 gallons of discus, my favorite fish in the whole world. But they require pristine water conditions and I did water changes every single day 🥴but that was years ago its going to be simpler now!

But reading over everybody’s post I’m learning SO much in this thread.  And I think I remember we just used straight household ammonia, but I don’t have any. So I ordered Tim’s lol. I have a Kazillion questions about that but I’ll wait till I get it!

That’s funny you should say that about some people don’t like to alter their tank’s appearance with yet another thing. That’s the first thing I thought when I stuck that puppy up there next to the thermometer that never EVER seems to change🤔 But that’s another thread in other topic, I’m gonna get the floating thermometer however I remember chasing that thing all around my tank trying to get it😂

Edited June 14, 2022 by sweetpoison

[Guppysnail]

On 6/14/2022 at 11:54 AM, drawnitsud said:

never feel bad about not knowing what people are talking about it.

I’m not new and I still must ask for clarification especially if it is a new to me concept. 🤗

On 6/14/2022 at 12:06 PM, sweetpoison said:

the first thing I thought when I stuck that puppy up there

In tanks I can see through the side I stick it low back in a corner and hide it with a plant so I can’t see it from the front view. Other tanks I plaster that puppy right up front not caring because it helps me monitor my tanks while being way to lazy to pull out the test kits 🤣

[sweetpoison]

You’re so funny you sound just like me!  I might just move my ammonia monitor way in the back behind a plant ~ that’s a good idea👏♥️