Help Cycling New Tank

[MG Insane]

Hello Everyone I was wondering if I could get some experienced minds help. Been cycling my tank for a couple of weeks now. I currently have a couple of guppies and been dosing prime and stability everyday. Ammonia has been 0 ppm for about 2 weeks now (API mastestest kit) but my nitrites have sky rocketed and been holding 5ppm ever since, I'm guessing its been higher. My nitrates were increasing at a fast rate as well 40ppm to 80ppm three days after taking the 40 ppm reading. I have done one 60% water change after reading the 80ppm nitrate and introduced many plants (3 java ferns, 6 anubias, 1 moss clump). Nitrites were still 5ppm after the change the interesting part is that the nitrates have held constant if anything slightly raised over 2 weeks (nitrites still 5ppm). I'm guessing my cycle has stalled or the plants have been doing a good job keeping the nitrates low. 

Any suggestions, water changes, do dont anything

7.8ph 29 gallons 77 degrees F, HOB filter, and airstones. 

[Cbass]

Hmm. 2 weeks is not a long time, especially for that size of tank. It’s technically still cycling. Typically it can take a month or 2 for the tank to finish cycling depending on the size and other factors. My 20 gal took 2 months. 
 

I wouldn’t change the water. You’re essentially removing some of the beneficial bacteria that’s trying to grow. You’ll need to let the tank run it’s course. The nitrite and nitrate spikes show that the bacteria is doing it’s job, however I would also test your source water. Where I live my tap has 0.25ppm ammonia and 5ppm nitrates to get a baseline. What kind of substrate are you using? How many gallons is the HOB filter rated at?

As for the fish, I’ll let others chime in  as I’ve always done a fishless cycle. But you may want to have a quarantine tank ready in case they start to show signs of poisoning. Nitrate isn’t as bad as nitrite. My neons survived an accidental fertilizer overdose where my nitrates hit 180. However take that with a grain of salt as my pH was 6.8. Higher ph levels are supposed to be worse with elevated levels.

The one thing that I’ve learned is that patience really is key. Even my tank, which is 4 months old will have random spikes and I added livestock very very slowly, testing to see how the water changed and waiting awhile before deciding to add more.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Cbass

[MG Insane]

Ya I definitely don't want to add any more fish until it gets more stable, also when would have never guessed that tap can have nitrites. 

[Torrey]

At 7.8 pH, nitrites and ammonia are extremely toxic to fish.

How are you treating your water?

What are the parameters of your tap water?

Do you still have any live fish in the tank?

 

[MG Insane]

Yes all fish still swimming and looking good, eating, normal swimming. I have been treating the water with seachem prime every day. The tap water parameters are 7.8ph  0.25 ammonia ppm 0 nitrite 

also using gravel for the substrate 

[Minanora]

Okay okay okay. So, nitrite takes a long time to phase out. Your current water change schedule is fine. Just try not to let NitrAte go above 80ppm. Be careful with changing water. If you're at 80ppm or higher I only recommend doing daily 25% changes until you hit 40ppm. At 40ppm you're safe to do 50% water changes. Don't gravel vac. If something is really bugging you display wise, just swish it up during the water change.

Don't clean out your filter media except maybe once a month. I mean assuming your "a few guppies" is less than 20 in a 29 with plants.

Snails are a big bio load. So if you have them, count them a the rate of 3 per fish depending on species. Pond snail =5/1 guppy, ramshorn 3/1, trumpet 10/1.

 

Your substrate should be at least 2.5" deep imo. It will save you a lot of headache. I am a fan of deep substrate beds. They save you a ton of headache. The more planted tanks I do, the deeper I do substrate. Every change has been beneficial.

 

For stability sake, keep your tank at 76 degrees F for a few weeks. Just to get things outside of temp dialed in. Don't dose ferts with ammonia. Only dose micros if you can. Just to dial in your nitrate balance with your livestock. two weeks. Then gauge deficiencies and supplement as needed. You'll likely only need potassium, micros, and iron.

Feed lightly. AKA one feeding a day, consumed within 2 minutes. or twice a day every other day.

Nitrites in your tap water is a bad thing.... you should report that to your municipal water supply if you're on municipal/city water.

If you're on well water, sadly, I would say you need to drill deeper or get reports from your neighboring wells and consult the EPA to test the ground water in your area. That's not okay from what I understand in our area.

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/19/2022 at 8:26 PM, MG Insane said:

7.8ph 29 gallons 77 degrees F, HOB filter, and airstones. 

what is in the HoB filter?

On 5/19/2022 at 10:19 PM, MG Insane said:

I have been treating the water with seachem prime every day.

Seachem's FAQ on the website points to, be sure to only dose every 24-48 hours. the product will work for 24 hours. You don't want to dose it just to add some, but right now that's the "schedule" so to speak for how often to dose that.

You can also add some carbon, but I'd like to understand how your filtration is setup.  If you can, please post a photo of your scape in the tank so we have an idea of what hardscape you have in the tank that can support bacteria.

[Cbass]

See below as I tried to edit this post….

Edited May 20, 2022 by Cbass

[Cbass]

On 5/19/2022 at 10:19 PM, MG Insane said:

Yes all fish still swimming and looking good, eating, normal swimming. I have been treating the water with seachem prime every day. The tap water parameters are 7.8ph  0.25 ammonia ppm 0 nitrite 

also using gravel for the substrate 

My tap has a pH of 8.4 but other than that similar parameters. +1 to @nabokovfan87 questions as well. Photos help!

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I would recommend continuing with water changes to keep things under control (see test kit instructions for acceptable levels) because you have fish.  If you didn't have fish, it would be a different story.

[MG Insane]

Update for everyone, been testing my water daily. Great news nitrites are finally down and rapidly. Went from 5ppm nitrites at 8:00pm then this morning 1ppm at 11:00am. To say I'm relieved and excited would be an understatement. Also nitrates also going down which means my plants are doing their job. 

[MG Insane]

That's crazy that your tap water is so high ph. I wonder how someone would lower it. Gravel is pretty high 4 inches. I was dosing every 24 hours or 36. On the bottle says you can dose up to 5 times safely. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I heard driftwood can help?  Also leaves.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Cbass]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea the tannins in driftwood and almond leaves do help, but it takes awhile. The pH in my tap is 7.8 - 8.0. I have a tank with aquasoil (also lowers pH), driftwood and an almond leaf. The lowest that my pH gets is around 7.4-7.6 but only if I use a 70/30 mix of tap and RO water during my water changes. 

My fish and shrimp have learned to live with it and are happy (even my shrimp fry), and so have I. Corey's vids on pH and KH were a HUGE help. 

 

[Jennifer V]

On 5/19/2022 at 11:33 PM, Minanora said:

 

Snails are a big bio load. So if you have them, count them a the rate of 3 per fish depending on species. Pond snail =5/1 guppy, ramshorn 3/1, trumpet 10/1.

 

 

I had no idea such small snails have such a big bioload. That explains so much about how high the nitrates are in my 5g snail/shrimp tank. I thought just having snails and shrimp would be a breeze compared to my 10g pea puffer tank but it's actually the other way around. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 5/20/2022 at 1:33 AM, Minanora said:

Snails are a big bio load. So if you have them, count them a the rate of 3 per fish depending on species. Pond snail =5/1 guppy, ramshorn 3/1, trumpet 10/1.

Yeah and here I am hatching multiple snail egg clutches to be moved to a 10gal grow out tank, then sold to LFS. Getting ready for daily water changes. 😝. I must be crazy.

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/20/2022 at 3:09 PM, MG Insane said:

Update for everyone, been testing my water daily. Great news nitrites are finally down and rapidly. Went from 5ppm nitrites at 8:00pm then this morning 1ppm at 11:00am. To say I'm relieved and excited would be an understatement. Also nitrates also going down which means my plants are doing their job. 

Nicely done.

 

 

On 5/20/2022 at 3:22 PM, MG Insane said:

That's crazy that your tap water is so high ph. I wonder how someone would lower it.

Peat moss is basically the way I've seen it done.  RO water as well.

[Torrey]

On 5/19/2022 at 10:06 PM, MG Insane said:

Ya I definitely don't want to add any more fish until it gets more stable, also when would have never guessed that tap can have nitrites. 

My tap (depending on temperatures, day of the week, and which source my water is coming from) can range from 0 ppm nitrates to 40 ppm nitrates, occasionally has nitrites (spring), can test 0 ppm chlorine up to dark green on the Co-op strips (especially right after they have worked on a water line), and KH is wildly variable too. Only consistent thing about my water, is it is always over 400 TDS straight out of the tap, and always 300+ ppm for GH.

Even the pH can fluctuate, so I have to test my tap before every water change.

This means I am very careful with my water usage (high desert living), don't chase parameters, don't use RO water (I won't waste 3 gallons effluent for 1 gallon usable water), and rarely do big water changes. When tap water tests close to my tanks, I fill up a bunch of gallon jugs from the PurFilter for later use in the tanks. Fishkeeping isn't really about keeping fish, its about water chemistry in a box.

The fish are our reward for learning the chemistry🤷🏼‍♂️