Crazy idea

[Theplatymaster]

I noticed that the small aquarium co op sponge filter is as long as the intake tube, and had the idea to combine the small filter with the medium filter to get the same amount of flow as the medium with the uptake tube, but get more filtration. This also means I have two pieces that i can clean separately and save some bacteria. Just sharing an idea. Please tell me if you like it, or don't think it will work.

[Zenzo]

On 5/12/2022 at 8:16 AM, Theplatymaster said:

I noticed that the small aquarium co op sponge filter is as long as the intake tube, and had the idea to combine the small filter with the medium filter to get the same amount of flow as the medium with the uptake tube, but get more filtration. This also means I have two pieces that i can clean separately and save some bacteria. Just sharing an idea. Please tell me if you like it, or don't think it will work.

If you mean that you stacked the sponge filters to have more surface area, then yes, that works. They are designed to be stackable. If you are saying that you removed the uplift tube and used the height space for more sponge material, this won't work as well. The reason the uplift tube is relatively long, is because that is what creates the movement of water in an uplift direction. The shorter the tube (or no tube), the less effective the sponge filter will be. 

[JettsPapa]

On 5/12/2022 at 12:05 PM, Zenzo said:

If you mean that you stacked the sponge filters to have more surface area, then yes, that works. They are designed to be stackable. If you are saying that you removed the uplift tube and used the height space for more sponge material, this won't work as well. The reason the uplift tube is relatively long, is because that is what creates the movement of water in an uplift direction. The shorter the tube (or no tube), the less effective the sponge filter will be. 

Can you please clarify that?  The bubbles are moving up regardless of whether or not the tube is there.  Doesn't that cause water movement?  I'm not clear on how having the tube helps.

[Zenzo]

On 5/12/2022 at 10:58 AM, JettsPapa said:

Can you please clarify that?  The bubbles are moving up regardless of whether or not the tube is there.  Doesn't that cause water movement?  I'm not clear on how having the tube helps.

Sure, I can try to explain a little better.

The uplift tube creates a concentrated direction of flow that will allow the sponge filter to directionally pull water through the sponge material and up the tube. Without the tube, there isn't any pressure created by the rising bubbles, and water is drawn through the sponge at a much lesser rate. If you don't have the uplift tube, there is no specified direction for the water to travel, and you just have a bunch of turbulent water moving in multiple directions, making the sponge less effective.

I am not a fluid dynamics expert or an aerodynamics expert, but think of the sponge filter uplift tube like diffusers on a race car. The actual shape of the diffusers on the car actually draws and directs the air through, creating negative pressure under the car (thus helping it to stay planted to the track). 

Bottom line, you are better off using just the one sponge with the uplift tube, vs. two sponges stacked and no uplift tube. If you have enough height, you can stack the two sponges AND use the uplift tube, and that will give you more surface area.

I hope this helps. Just remember...if the uplift tubes weren't necessary, why would manufacturers go through the trouble of making and packaging them? Most air-driven filters work this way (even back when we used under gravel filters). 

[JettsPapa]

On 5/12/2022 at 1:12 PM, Zenzo said:

Sure, I can try to explain a little better.

The uplift tube creates a concentrated direction of flow that will allow the sponge filter to directionally pull water through the sponge material and up the tube. Without the tube, there isn't any pressure created by the rising bubbles, and water is drawn through the sponge at a much lesser rate. If you don't have the uplift tube, there is no specified direction for the water to travel, and you just have a bunch of turbulent water moving in multiple directions, making the sponge less effective.

I am not a fluid dynamics expert or an aerodynamics expert, but think of the sponge filter uplift tube like diffusers on a race car. The actual shape of the diffusers on the car actually draws and directs the air through, creating negative pressure under the car (thus helping it to stay planted to the track). 

Bottom line, you are better off using just the one sponge with the uplift tube, vs. two sponges stacked and no uplift tube. If you have enough height, you can stack the two sponges AND use the uplift tube, and that will give you more surface area.

I hope this helps. Just remember...if the uplift tubes weren't necessary, why would manufacturers go through the trouble of making and packaging them? Most air-driven filters work this way (even back when we used under gravel filters). 

That makes sense.  Thank you.

[Tihshho]

@Zenzo as an Astro. Engineer I have to applaud your description of the process. I wouldn't have used diffusers as my first coorelative representation, but it gets the point through clear.

[Brian]

 @Zenzo I have a  couple follow up questions.  01. Does the distance from the surface to the top of the lift tube have any impact on how much oxygen is absorbed into the water?  Longer bubbles are in water column equals more oxygen?  02.  Does a longer lift tube create more pressure?  Making sponge filter even more efficient?  
Thanks 

[Cinnebuns]

@Zenzo I have to admit I'm not completely following everything in this thread partially because I'm sick with covid and not at full capacity. I wanna make sure you are say not to shorten the out take tube correct? One of mine I threw a pre filter sponge for a hob filter on the out take. I'm not even sure if that's a thing that helps or hurts but I never considered either direction till now. 

[Zenzo]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:18 PM, Cinnebuns said:

@Zenzo I have to admit I'm not completely following everything in this thread partially because I'm sick with covid and not at full capacity. I wanna make sure you are say not to shorten the out take tube correct? One of mine I threw a pre filter sponge for a hob filter on the out take. I'm not even sure if that's a thing that helps or hurts but I never considered either direction till now. 

I hope that you feel better soon!

On a sponge filter, the uplift tube is beneficial and will allow the sponge to function optimally. If you shorten or remove the uplift tube of a sponge filter, you lessen the amount of water it will pull through the sponge material. Other things like the use of an air stone, bubble size, bubble velocity, etc, will also determine the effectiveness. I believe that in some testing, Cory found that smaller bubbles flowing at a medium rate was better than larger, turbulent bubbles at full blast. This is why the Aquarium Co-Op sponges have the ability to add an air stone (to have finer bubbles and more control). 

I am not sure what you meant by adding a pre-filter sponge. If you added it by sliding it over the uplift tube and the plastic tube was not cut, it will function as intended (although I doubt the added pre-filter is doing anything). If you added the pre-filter sponge and it sits towards the top of the tube, it most likely is not impeding the flow of the bubbles coming out of the sponge filter, and you may be getting a little bit of additional biological filtration (but I imagine less than you think). 

[Cinnebuns]

On 5/13/2022 at 9:31 PM, Zenzo said:

I hope that you feel better soon!

On a sponge filter, the uplift tube is beneficial and will allow the sponge to function optimally. If you shorten or remove the uplift tube of a sponge filter, you lessen the amount of water it will pull through the sponge material. Other things like the use of an air stone, bubble size, bubble velocity, etc, will also determine the effectiveness. I believe that in some testing, Cory found that smaller bubbles flowing at a medium rate was better than larger, turbulent bubbles at full blast. This is why the Aquarium Co-Op sponges have the ability to add an air stone (to have finer bubbles and more control). 

I am not sure what you meant by adding a pre-filter sponge. If you added it by sliding it over the uplift tube and the plastic tube was not cut, it will function as intended (although I doubt the added pre-filter is doing anything). If you added the pre-filter sponge and it sits towards the top of the tube, it most likely is not impeding the flow of the bubbles coming out of the sponge filter, and you may be getting a little bit of additional biological filtration (but I imagine less than you think). 

 

It does also have an air stone in it. 

I'm not entirely sure if that sponge is doing anything other than maybe lessening flow in the tank

[Baphijmm]

On 5/13/2022 at 8:52 PM, Cinnebuns said:

I'm not entirely sure if that sponge is doing anything other than maybe lessening flow in the tank

I'd say that sponge is actively inhibiting the functionality of the sponge filter itself. It's wholly dissipating water flow through the top. This is most obviously seen by how the air moves through it; it necessarily has to flow through one channel, and then clumps together and forms huge bubbles (comparatively) by the time it exits.

[Cinnebuns]

On 5/13/2022 at 10:00 PM, Baphijmm said:

I'd say that sponge is actively inhibiting the functionality of the sponge filter itself. It's wholly dissipating water flow through the top. This is most obviously seen by how the air moves through it; it necessarily has to flow through one channel, and then clumps together and forms huge bubbles (comparatively) by the time it exits.

I was concerned about something like that tbh. Good to know. Ty

[modified lung]

On 5/12/2022 at 5:10 PM, Brian said:

 @Zenzo I have a  couple follow up questions.  01. Does the distance from the surface to the top of the lift tube have any impact on how much oxygen is absorbed into the water?  Longer bubbles are in water column equals more oxygen?  02.  Does a longer lift tube create more pressure?  Making sponge filter even more efficient?  
Thanks 

80-90% of the oxygen is absorbed into the water when the bubble is first formed so the amount of time the bubble is in the water column after that doesn't make much of a difference.

I have a 6 inch tube in one of my sponge filters. It doesn't seem to create much more suction past a certain height.

[Brian]

Thank you.   I only use sponge filters in non display tanks.  (Breeding- grow out and qt).   Thanks