My Pond Water: What the heck? Explain it like I'm 5...

[PineSong]

I am about two weeks away from putting fish in my 110g summer tub, which I set up about three weeks ago with plants from my indoor tank, two potted plants capped with gravel, snails, mulm, water, wood and gravel from indoor tanks as well as Primed tap water.

Today I was adding an airstone and while I was out there I tested the water for the heck of it.

I expected the parameters to be similar to my tanks, but man was I wrong. I'm not even sure my fish can live in this water? My tanks' pH stays around 6.8 at the highest, the pond water was off the chart's top end. My tanks' KH usually looks like 40 no matter how much crushed coral I add, whereas the pond again topped the chart.  What can I do to bring the pond more into line with my tanks so I can move fish from one to the other without killing them?

For comparison, here is my tank water: 

And Primed, aged tap water: 

 

[modified lung]

You can get off the charts high pH if there's an unusually high amount of carbonates compared to bicarbonates in your KH. Is it possible something is leeching a ton of carbonates in your pond? 

Another way is if something consumed all the KH and there's lots of plants or phytoplankton. But then you'd have no KH.

A third possible option is something in the pond is interfering with the the chemistry of the KH test pad. Some ingredients in sanitizers and herbicides, or lots of copper or iron ions can give you false KH readings.

[PineSong]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:15 PM, modified lung said:

You can get off the charts high pH if there's an unusually high amount of carbonates compared to bicarbonates in your KH. Is it possible something is leeching a ton of carbonates in your pond? 

Another way is if something consumed all the KH and there's lots of plants or phytoplankton. But then you'd have no KH.

A third possible option is something in the pond is interfering with the the chemistry of the KH test pad. Some ingredients in sanitizers and herbicides, or lots of copper or iron ions can give you false KH readings.

Thank you. Could it be the pea gravel I used is leaching carbonates into the pond? IDK what kind of gravel it is, just the stuff I ordered from the stone yard for a garden project, but it was extra, never used, and stored in my shed in (newly purchased) 5g buckets.   I do have green water in the pond at the moment, not sure if that's phytoplankton? There are not very many plants for the gallons. re: the third option; it is a brand new pond from Tractor Supply, filled with water from the garden hose. I have not put any herbicides on my yard or anywhere.

Should I drain the pond and refill it? Add crushed coral? Not sure what to do.

[modified lung]

@PineSong take some of the gravel and smash it with a hammer, then put the pieces in a cup of vinegar or lemon juice. If they start releasing bubbles then they have carbonate in them. Hopefully that's it.

Yeah, greenwater is phytoplankton. Phytos eat KH and CO2. If that's the problem you'd have high pH and no KH though. Unless there was some kind of cleaner residue in the tub when you bought it? Then you might be getting false KH readings. But I'd save draining and scrubbing the tub as a last resort though.

It's always a good idea to confirm with another test kit before doing anything that takes too much effort.

There could be other things that can cause your water situation. These are just the ones I can think of atm.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I have nothing to add but lol @ "explain it like I'm 5" love it. 

[PineSong]

Thank you, ModifiedLung. According to this article, the pH may be high due to depletion of CO2 by all the green water and algae, and adding the airstone will help, as will shading the pond, adding organic matter so that decomposition will produce CO2, and letting the pond age and balance out.

I already added the air, so I will add shade, "organic matter" (I'm thinking fish food) and will check again in a few days. I will vinegar test the gravel.

https://thefishsite.com/articles/managing-high-ph-in-freshwater-ponds

On 5/7/2022 at 2:06 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

I have nothing to add but lol @ "explain it like I'm 5" love it. 

The way my brain works these days I cannot believe I once got an A+ in chemistry. I really feel like info about water chemistry goes in one ear and out the other, while sadly I can name all of Kim Karashian's children just from hearing about them from front desk staff at work. Not an effective storage system!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Lol! I totally get it. Thankfully I know nothing about Kim AT ALL so I save space for my random facts that serve no purpose other than varied reactions from different people I meet. 

[Torrey]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:08 PM, PineSong said:

"organic matter"

Barley straw tends to be a nice "organic matter" as well as plants that melt back 

[modified lung]

@PineSong let me know how it works out.

[PineSong]

On 5/7/2022 at 3:33 PM, Torrey said:

Barley straw tends to be a nice "organic matter" as well as plants that melt back 

 

On 5/7/2022 at 4:02 PM, modified lung said:

@PineSong let me know how it works out.

The barley straw (and maybe time or the water warming up--we've had several hot days in a row) worked a treat. The water was much less green today and the pH and other parameters were the same as my tanks. I acclimated a few guppies and put them out, not entirely without anxiety but at least knowing everything measured on the strip was good.

Also, I tested the pea gravel with vinegar and no bubbles, so I don't think it's the problem.

Fingers crossed!

Edited May 14, 2022 by PineSong

[Torrey]

Yay!

Glad things are back on track!

[nabokovfan87]

I will start with my favorite way to say IDK.  "Ich habe keine ahnung!"

But, I did see some stuff that is definitely interesting to try to piece together the puzzle.  Let's see what we can piece together:

 

On 5/7/2022 at 9:24 AM, PineSong said:

I am about two weeks away from putting fish in my 110g summer tub, which I set up about three weeks ago with plants from my indoor tank, two potted plants capped with gravel, snails, mulm, water, wood and gravel from indoor tanks as well as Primed tap water.

Today I was adding an airstone and while I was out there I tested the water for the heck of it.

The pond didn't have any water movement before this point? How long was this?

 

 

On 5/7/2022 at 9:24 AM, PineSong said:

With the exception of the PH, this is basically my water from the tap.

 

 

On 5/7/2022 at 10:15 AM, modified lung said:

You can get off the charts high pH if there's an unusually high amount of carbonates compared to bicarbonates in your KH. Is it possible something is leeching a ton of carbonates in your pond? 

Another way is if something consumed all the KH and there's lots of plants or phytoplankton. But then you'd have no KH.

I have a *ridiculously* high GH but very low in comparison KH.  It's something where I'm going to end up dosing stuff or something whenever the treatment plants drop the KH on me again. My PH in that tank is 6.5ish (just mentioning it as a talking point, but obviously PH is going to vary from location to location and tank to tank.

 

 

On 5/7/2022 at 10:36 AM, PineSong said:

Thank you. Could it be the pea gravel I used is leaching carbonates into the pond? IDK what kind of gravel it is, just the stuff I ordered from the stone yard for a garden project, but it was extra, never used, and stored in my shed in (newly purchased) 5g buckets. 

Definitely could be an issue....  Later information points to no, but I was going to ask whether this was more of a light grey / white stone or if this was a dark slate or pond style stone.

 

 

On 5/7/2022 at 11:08 AM, PineSong said:

Thank you, ModifiedLung. According to this article, the pH may be high due to depletion of CO2 by all the green water and algae, and adding the airstone will help, as will shading the pond, adding organic matter so that decomposition will produce CO2, and letting the pond age and balance out.

I already added the air, so I will add shade, "organic matter" (I'm thinking fish food) and will check again in a few days. I will vinegar test the gravel.

Totally makes sense, especially if you didn't have flow for a certain period of time.

 

On 5/7/2022 at 10:36 AM, PineSong said:

Should I drain the pond and refill it? Add crushed coral? Not sure what to do.

Your KH is "borderline" but it should be high enough to give you a stable PH.  I don't know if you normally buffer your tanks.  The Coral in the pond might make it easier to see things, give you a bit of extra stability if you do big water changes. If you're not planning on massive % changes and letting it just sit a bit, then I would test every few days, weekly, etc. until you're satisfied with stability.

 

 

On 5/13/2022 at 10:11 PM, PineSong said:

Also, I tested the pea gravel with vinegar and no bubbles, so I don't think it's the problem.

Sweet!

Super interesting stuff. I am glad you got things sorted and hopefully with future tests things look to stay stable for you. 

[PineSong]

On 5/14/2022 at 2:21 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I will start with my favorite way to say IDK.  "Ich habe keine ahnung!"

But, I did see some stuff that is definitely interesting to try to piece together the puzzle.  Let's see what we can piece together:

 

The pond didn't have any water movement before this point? How long was this?
 

Definitely could be an issue....  Later information points to no, but I was going to ask whether this was more of a light grey / white stone or if this was a dark slate or pond style

Yes, it’s true the pond had no water movement for @ 2-3 weeks before I added the airstone. I had to buy a large enough pump and was pretty lazy about it. My pea gravel is this:

And this morning the pond looks like this:

 

[modified lung]

Your high KH reading was still really weird. I've wondered in the past if phytoplankton interferes with strip tests. I ways got weird ammonia strip readings in my greenwater cultures to the point where I just stopped bothering to test them. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:50 AM, PineSong said:

Yes, it’s true the pond had no water movement for @ 2-3 weeks before I added the airstone. I had to buy a large enough pump and was pretty lazy about it. My pea gravel is this:

Looks like that gravel would have some, but not a ton of impact. I wouldn't be afraid of using it and any buffering or calcium it would leech.

Definitely sounds like oxygenation was the culprit here.  I would potentially add some crushed coral just to make sure your KH doesn't dip down and try to keep the PH stable.  I would test for the next month, weekly, keep an eye on KH/PH specifically and see what you feel like you need to add if anything to keep the buffer.

Could be something from the soil in the potted plant?

Edited May 14, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[PineSong]

On 5/14/2022 at 3:18 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Looks like that gravel would have some, but not a ton of impact. I wouldn't be afraid of using it and any buffering or calcium it would leech.

Definitely sounds like oxygenation was the culprit here.  I would potentially add some crushed coral just to make sure your KH doesn't dip down and try to keep the PH stable.  I would test for the next month, weekly, keep an eye on KH/PH specifically and see what you feel like you need to add if anything to keep the buffer.

Could be something from the soil in the potted plant?

This AM the pH was at the bottom of the color chart and so was the KH. I added about 4 more cups of crushed coral--I had put some in when I set it up. I have more that I can add if I need to. So crazy to have it go from the top to the bottom like that. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/15/2022 at 2:50 PM, PineSong said:

This AM the pH was at the bottom of the color chart and so was the KH. I added about 4 more cups of crushed coral--I had put some in when I set it up. I have more that I can add if I need to. So crazy to have it go from the top to the bottom like that. 

Definitely. It's so difficult to really control KH quickly. Takes time. Given the size of the pond, you might need a lot more or add a power head to give it the effect of dissolving quicker?

What was the KH and PH this morning?

[PineSong]

This morning pH was 6.4 and KH was below 40--the square wasn't even green.

This evening pH was at least 6.8 and KH was 40. This is using Co-op strips. 

Guppies are cruising around looking like they are having lot of fun.