What Do?

[TheLoreleiAquatics]

https://imgur.com/a/sNlJPms

Hi friends,

Aquatic plants are tough and I do not know what to do with these deficiencies. If I saw them in terrestrial plants, I would say magnesium, calcium, and potentially potassium. 

I do two 30%-50% water changes a week (which is mostly to gravel vacuum because the mystery snails are ridiculous). I use a heaping tablespoon of seachem Equilibrium in my new water because otherwise I have 2 or 3 gh and kh.

That tablespoon brings the gh up to 8 or 9 (I also use a tiny bit of alkaline buffer to boost my pH to 7.4 and my kh to 4).

I use 4-5 squirts of easy green and easy iron twice a week, (which I might dial it back because of the algea, but I am dialing light back first with these deficiencies), and I have 6 hours of light, two 3 hour blocks with a four hour siesta.

The pH is around 7.2-7.6, ammonia is usually 0, but I had a small spike earlier in the week due to some food getting stuck under a plant I didn't see and it was .25, nitrites are 0, nitrates are usually around 10, sometimes 20 on water change day.

Should I add more Equilibrium? I am nervous to put the gh up much higher, the ropefish get restless.

Should I add an additional Potassium source? Are there different magnesium sources that don't change gh? Is there a calcium deficiency still? Are aquatic plants so different from terrestrial plants that I have no idea what I'm looking at? Lol

Thanks in advance!

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/6/2022 at 7:39 PM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

Aquatic plants are tough and I do not know what to do with these deficiencies. If I saw them in terrestrial plants, I would say magnesium, calcium, and potentially potassium.

I don't know that it's a deficiency of the plant but it's just staghorn algae forming, meaning something is off.

What is your lighting and what does the schedule look like? Is blue light off?

You might want to try to keep dosing until you're seeing a consistent 20-30 nitrates, potentially up the light power and/or duration.

On 4/6/2022 at 7:39 PM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

Should I add an additional Potassium source? Are there different magnesium sources that don't change gh?

seachem has chemicals for both of these, there are also powders you can use.

Just if you wish to find a bit more information on aquatic plants, I would point to here, very helpful conversation.
 

 

On 4/6/2022 at 7:39 PM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

I have 6 hours of light, two 3 hour blocks with a four hour siesta.

If possible, can you please share a screenshot of the schedule in the app?

Edited April 7, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[TheLoreleiAquatics]

On 4/7/2022 at 12:09 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

don't know that it's a deficiency of the plant but it's just staghorn algae forming, meaning something is off.

So the older leaves have the outer edges turning yellow and brown doesn't look like a deficiency to you? I was worried it was a deficiency. 

I do definitely have an algea issue that I have been battling for a while. It had gotten really bad before I put fish in because my nitrates skyrocketed, then it had chilled out after I lowered the nitrates, added a break in the lighting, cut the lighting from 10 hours to 6, and added some plants.

The algea seemed to be behaving itself, so I increased the lighting back up to 8 hours (on full intensity from 10am-2pm, off from 2pm- 6pm, and on from 6pm-10pm).

On 4/7/2022 at 12:09 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

What is your lighting and what does the schedule look like? Is blue light off?

You might want to try to keep dosing until you're seeing a consistent 20-30 nitrates, potentially up the light power and/or duration.

I have a Nicrew light, it is full spectrum so it does have some reds, greens, and blues, but it is mostly white. I have it on at the highest intensity.

So I should increase the fertilizer a little until my nitrates are 20-30? They sit between 10-20 now 🙂 I didn't want to over do the nitrates because that seemed to be what made the algea go crazy before.

On 4/7/2022 at 12:09 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

If possible, can you please share a screenshot of the schedule in the app?

Unfortunately I do not have the fluval, I have a little 48" budget Nicrew I got off of Amazon for $67. I just decreased the lights so they're on from 1100-1400, off from 1400-1800, and then they are back on from 1800-2100. 

I knew aquatic plants were going to have a learning curve, lol. They are growing though, they have all grown pretty significantlysince I put them in there, especiallythe tiger lily. So I am doing some things correctly (at least I think?).

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/7/2022 at 8:37 AM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

I have a Nicrew light, it is full spectrum so it does have some reds, greens, and blues, but it is mostly white. I have it on at the highest intensity.

On the actual light itself, does it have dedicated blue LEDs? Is it possible to turn those off? I'm sorry I'm unfamiliar with what functions that light has specifically.

To give you an idea on method I would recommend Bentleys fluval planted 3.0 settings, he also does have a siesta method as well with how long he runs the light. He starts at something like 50% power and slowly increases it over time. That's why I ask what power setting you're at. In my case, I was at 75-85% and bumped it up and had a massive algae outbreak. 

On 4/7/2022 at 8:37 AM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

I just decreased the lights so they're on from 1100-1400, off from 1400-1800, and then they are back on from 1800-2100. 

Tied to what you see above with my light, let's say the plants need 4 hour gaps to grow, especially under CO2. You might need to have two of those periods with the siesta in the middle. You might need to drop the schedule from those 3 hour gaps down to 1.5 hour windows. I can't say which direction to go without a lot of research but on the surface level I just wanted to clarify the two different adjustments we're looking at here, especially with the staghorn algae. Either the plants are over exposed and running out of nutrients or under exposed and overfed. It's a very slight tweak and probably a very subtle change in either case.

Another adjustment we can pinpoint would be how long that siesta window is. Right now it seems like it's really long. Which might lead to the plants being a bit "off" in terms of their energy cycle. For the most part the light is off longer than the block where it's on. Just a note, and I'll have to dig when I get a second to verify some information, but perhaps another tweak might be to change the siesta from a 4 hour down to a 2 hour break. This is all going back to the CO2 parameters, flowrate, water volume,  and schedule, as well.

On 4/7/2022 at 8:37 AM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

I knew aquatic plants were going to have a learning curve, lol. They are growing though, they have all grown pretty significantlysince I put them in there, especiallythe tiger lily. So I am doing some things correctly (at least I think?).

Yes absolutely! The plants generally look healthy but it's one of those small things where one little tick can start that snowball and you're just trying to avoid that avalanche and tank crash.

On 4/7/2022 at 8:37 AM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

I do definitely have an algea issue that I have been battling for a while. It had gotten really bad before I put fish in because my nitrates skyrocketed, then it had chilled out after I lowered the nitrates, added a break in the lighting, cut the lighting from 10 hours to 6, and added some plants.

In terms of the algae cleanup, what are the options for this tank? What is already in the tank to fight it? What size is the tank?

On 4/7/2022 at 8:37 AM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

So I should increase the fertilizer a little until my nitrates are 20-30? They sit between 10-20 now 🙂 I didn't want to over do the nitrates because that seemed to be what made the algea go crazy before

For right now, I would tend to lean towards adjusting the light to get the algae under control or at least so that it doesn't develop further. So like you've been doing, cutting back the fert, is probably exactly what I would've done. My tanks I aim for 40 ppm nitrate. I would usually get about 20ppm per test from the bioload and then the added 20+ being from whatever I'm dosing through the week. For clarity, and going back to the situations mentioned above with the lighting, it's a very slight tweak that might make all the difference and everything seems to be nearly perfect in terms of your method. Now we just need to figure out what the plants are saying and what one plant might be needing compared to a different one. One plant might be over exposed, another might be underexposed and that's causing growth issues (appearing as the deficiency).  

I will turn on that Bentley talk again and give it a listen to recall a few tips he has in there. I will pull up his lighting video (he probably has one for nicrew as well) and check out his siesta settings and post them here with details for you.  If we can pin down those last few details and I get some coffee and such then we can discuss it, someone else might jump in as well, and then we can figure out a recommendation for you in terms of adjustments.

[TheLoreleiAquatics]

On 4/7/2022 at 12:25 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

On the actual light itself, does it have dedicated blue LEDs? Is it possible to turn those off?

It does! Here is a picture of the LEDs on the light: 

 https://imgur.com/a/YpTH7O5

Unfortunately,  there is no way to completely turn them off, ag least not that I have found. There is an all blue setting that I assume is supposed to be for night, or maybe a saltwater setting. 

On 4/7/2022 at 12:25 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

That's why I ask what power setting you're at. In my case, I was at 75-85% and bumped it up and had a massive algae outbreak

I can dim the lighting, there are three intensity settings. Most of my plants, I believe, are lower light. I think. Here are photos of every type of plant I have:

https://imgur.com/a/9V9uWHh

If I'm being honest, I'm not sure of all of their names. I know I have anubis, amazon sword, and tiger lily for sure. The others I am not so sure of. I got an online sale of stem plant cuttings and when I received it and they were unlabeled. 

But if the plants would do OK, I am able to reduce the intensity of the lighting. 

On 4/7/2022 at 12:25 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

In terms of the algae cleanup, what are the options for this tank? What is already in the tank to fight it? What size is the tank?

It is a 55 gallon tank with two ropefish filled with about 45 gallons of water, I have a four-five inch gap to encourage my mystery snails to lay eggs. No eggs yet, unfortunately 😕 

Right now as clean up crew I have two giant mystery snails, one smaller mystery snail (my starter magenta breeding stock), and a host of ramshorn and bladder snails.

My larger ramshorns are mysteriously dieing as they get bigger, which is puzzling me. Maybe the ropefish are eating them? I keep finding empty or partially empty shells once they get past a certain size.

No dead bladder snails though, and I have a couple really big ones of those.

I also have a breeder tank of ghost shrimp currently in quarantine, and after a few weeks I will be catching some out to put into the tank for the ropefish to eat. They're only eating cocktail shrimp right now, and I am really concerned about their nutrition. 

I am not doing CO2, DIY or otherwise. I am waiting until the Co-Op's regulator comes out before I purchase everything needed for it.

On 4/7/2022 at 12:25 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I will turn on that Bentley talk again and give it a listen to recall a few tips he has in there. I will pull up his lighting video (he probably has one for nicrew as well)

I will take a look at it too! Thank so much for much for taking the time to answer my questions, I really appreciate it!

[nabokovfan87]

If you have the ability to turn on/off specific LED colors, this is a good one to check out ^^.

Here is Bentley's Siesta setup.

As far as notes from the video:

The link should take you to the specific siesta settings conversation.

when he is talking about his settings here he is specifically using it for either:
1. Someone who has a work schedule and they want to alter the lighting windows to the morning/evening so that they can enjoy the tank with the lights on. Essentially, daytime becomes night for the fish.
2. Using it with CO2 for the sake of allowing the CO2 to be used, then the plants rest and more CO2 builds up.  This is to get some pretty intense growth.

You are using the siesta for category 1, which means that having the longer siesta hours is perfectly fine as long as we control other factors. Intensity of the light, position of the light/plants, and the fertilizers.

Looking at your images a lot of the plants are low light (I love the aquarium lily, that's awesome). These two specifically would require the most light to grow. In terms of position of the light we'd want to skew it over those plants in some capacity.




Anubias is the one that wants shade or indirect light. The crypts you have are going to feed via root tabs and will want less intense light. I believe (someone else can correct me) that the crypts can handle "a bit more" light than the anubias but would likely require something like iron to be dosed in as well.

One thing I do in my tank is that I either place something like anubias to the sides of the tank and use refraction as the base for offsetting the light or I will specifically move the location of the light on the lid towards the front/back of the tank to try to minimize algae growth.

 

On 4/7/2022 at 10:52 AM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

Unfortunately,  there is no way to completely turn them off, at least not that I have found. There is an all blue setting that I assume is supposed to be for night, or maybe a saltwater setting. 

yes they are very likely for a specific night setting or something. I don't see any way to turn them off unfortunately.  You're going to end up having some algae in there, but I think the algae team you have in the tank is more than sufficient for the task at hand.
 

On 4/7/2022 at 10:52 AM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

My larger ramshorns are mysteriously dieing as they get bigger, which is puzzling me.

If you want to post over in the diseases section for this and maybe someone who runs snails would be able to help out 🙂  It might be related to something mentioned in here: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/mystery-snails?_pos=3&_sid=83ad51cdc&_ss=r
 

On 4/7/2022 at 10:52 AM, TheLoreleiAquatics said:

But if the plants would do OK, I am able to reduce the intensity of the lighting. 

What is the intensity % you're using right now?  To give you some sort of a gauge, my tank with only anubias I run the light at 40-60% power. In my tanks that have higher need (or just a deeper tank) then I have the light turned up slightly more as shown in the screenshot.  Generally I think a lot of your plants are doing extremely well. The crypts might just be needing some iron but that also leads to the staghorn algae. In all I think you're doing a good job of balancing the ferts and plant needs.

For your taller stems, one of them looks like bacopa coroliniana or moneywort next to Mayaca Fluviatilis.  I think you can get away with cutting those in half, giving them some distance from one another and room to grow.  It will give you a better idea of which one is doing well in the lighting and which one is having some issues with needing any specific nutrients.

 

Quote

Mayaca leaves going pale to white often indicates iron deficiency within the aquarium.

 

This might be the only deficiency you have going on here. between the crypts and the mayaca needing iron.  (if I have identified that plant correctly of course)

SO.....

In summary, I apologize for all of the long posts and hope it's helpful, I would make 2-3 adjustments depending on what power level your light is at right now.

1. Dose iron ever so slightly more and see how the tank changes
2. Position the light over your stem plants
3. Position the stem plants in their own clusters to avoid the plants releasing chemicals to cause the other one to have issues with growth that might look like a deficiency.

EDIT: referencing the images you posted in your initial post. Those deficiencies might be iron, might be nutrient (not enough easy green) and might be simple light position. If we make sure the mayaca is doing ok on iron, then we can determine that the tank is balanced and go from there with adjusting light intensity as well as the dosing plan for easy green.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

@Seattle_Aquarist I saw you posting in another thread. Whenever time allows, can you please check out the photos and stuff above and offer any insights you might have here?

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Thank you @nabokovfan87, I've been watching this thread but didn't want to butt in on it.

Hi @TheLoreleiAquatics

First of all let me recap what I have read.  The tank is 55 gallons with approximately 45 gallons of water.  Two 50% water changes are done per week while doing a gravel vac.  5-6 squirts of AC Easy Green twice a week, how much Easy Iron do you dose?

As for water parameters pH is 7.2 - 7.6.  The dGH and the dKH come out of the tap at about 3.0 degrees each.  You add a heaping tablespoon of Seachem Equilibrium with new water, is that twice a week?  This brings your dGH up to 8.0 - 9.0.  You add a 'buffer'  (what specifically?) to bring you pH up to 7.4.  What is the pH of your tap water after it has de-gassed for 24 hours?  Were you having issues with very low pH prior to adding the 'buffer'?

I see you are using a sand substrate but there is something scattered on the surface of the sand, what is that please?

I'm guessing you are a gardener based upon "Are aquatic plants so different from terrestrial plants that I have no idea what I'm looking at?" and I can assure you that aquatic plants are almost exactly the same as terrestrial plants.

I too like your lily, it appears to be Nymphaea micrantha 'Gefleckt' (aka Tri-colored Lotus).  If you live in the Seattle area it is likely one that I grew and brought to a local club auction or one of our local aquarium shops.  If you could answer the questions above it may help to provide some additional clues as to what issues are causing concern.  -Roy

Edited April 8, 2022 by Seattle_Aquarist

[Tanked]

On 4/7/2022 at 12:09 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I

Just if you wish to find a bit more information on aquatic plants, I would point to here, very helpful conversation.
 

 

 

The video was a bit long winded but there was a lot of useful information there!  I will have to check out more of Bently's work.