Upgrading from 20 to 30 gallons. How to?

[Karen B.]

Greetings 

In about 2 weeks, when my new plants are done quarantining, I will upgrade my community tank from a 20 to a 30 gallons.

My population is 6-8 corydoras, 16 chili rasboras and 3 honey gourami.

My initial plans were just to put the fish/sponge filter/heater/filter in a 5ish gallons tub for the day and things would be fine.

However, I will be adding substrate to my original one. The tank currently has flourish black sand but I don’t really like it so I will mix it with my favorite, which is estes black river sand. On the package, it is said to wait 48 hours before adding any fish so I wrote to the company to know if it was because of the cycle or something else. Turns out it’s also to give times for any fine sand particules to be picked up by the filter.

So now I don’t really know what to do as far as my fish are concerned. I can’t move them in any of my other tank. Would they be ok to stay in a 5ish gallons tub for 48 hours if I don’t feed them and do 50% WC each day, with their heater, sponge filter and HOB filter?

Another thing - I can’t leave my 3 gourami free in the tub. One would be but the 2 other would have to be in floating container (so to stay at the right temperature). Is that ok. Should I put air line tubing in their floating container too?

If a tub is not cycled, but I do large WC everyday and do not feed, is it a problem.

Or I am up to any other ideas/suggestions. 

[Fish Folk]

(1) Drain cycled tank water from community tank into temporary QT bucket / tank (5 gal)

(2) Move sponge filter and heater over. To protect heater, unplug it, allow cool for 5-10 min, move in, then finally plug heater back in. They can crack if moved too quickly.

(3) Once cycled sponge filter is running, your bucket-tank is filtered / cycled fine. No need for anxious water changes. Move fish in gently. If you are worried about ammonia buildup, just change no more than 2-gallons per day. If you feed at all, do so very sparingly.

(4) If you’re mixing old + new substrate, I like to use a small kid’s plastic sandbox / beach hand-shovel. Move over as much cycled water from original tank as possible. If your new substrate is inert, you can get rid of a lot of dust in the water by mixing it around in a pail in the tub, pouring out cloudy water, and repeating until it pours off clear. I’ve done this many times with fine-granule Black Diamond Blasting Sand. You can also put in a big HOB filter jammed with aquarium floss to strain out a lot of remaining cloudy dust. One trick I use if pouring water in on new substrate to keep it from getting hyper cloudy is lay out a sheet of bubble wrap on top of the substrate, and then pouring water onto that. It floats, and is easy to remove. The substrate underneath is not badly stirred up this way.

[Widgets]

If you are concerned about overcrowding in the 5g and the water in the 30g is too cloudy for your comfort, maybe you temporily setup the 20g as a bare bottom tank to house your fish while you wait for the water to clear.

[anewbie]

Similar fish folk but different empahsis.

I use these 5 gallon buckets from various stores like walmart, homedepot, target, lowes, .... pick your favorite - they are around $3.00 - i actually tend to use two. I then use a sponge filter from my regular tank (if you don't have one i your two - put one in there a few weeks or month before you swap the tanks) - if you don't have an air pump you will need to buy one.  The sponge filter serves two function - filtration and aeration. Make sure you put a piece of card board or magazine over the pail if you have jumpers (don't cover the top completely - you want to allow for air exchange). 

 

Take a large garbage bag and spread it around the floor to catch substrate you shovel out of tank. Depending on the type and age of substrate you risk creating large 'bad pockets' that is deadly to the fishes when you move it - so you need to wash it before you put it in the new tank - the reason this happens is that IF there are aneraobic pockets of bacteria and when this is exposed to air nasty things happen that is quite deadly to fishes.

 

I found these dog scoop work fantastic at shoveling out substrate - the one i used was:

was a whopping $1.74.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004LOEKS4

 

 

I'm a huge fan of estes black river sand (I think that is the name - they have two black substrate one painted one not - for whatever reason I find plants grow fantastic in the stuff that is not painted - I'm not sure if it is the same as coal dust or black volcanic but i've had fantastic luck with that stuff). 

What i can tell is i've done this twice the last 3 years and both times it seemed like it would be a large task but it only took about 2 hours. The key thing i learned was putting something on the floor by the old tank in case there is a mess and check the pail occasionally for jumpers.

Edited March 28, 2022 by anewbie

[Karen B.]

On 3/28/2022 at 3:32 PM, Widgets said:

If you are concerned about overcrowding in the 5g and the water in the 30g is too cloudy for your comfort, maybe you temporily setup the 20g as a bare bottom tank to house your fish while you wait for the water to clear.

Can’t believe I didn’t think about that… duh!

[Karen B.]

On 3/28/2022 at 3:05 PM, Fish Folk said:

(1) Drain cycled tank water from community tank into temporary QT bucket / tank (5 gal)

(2) Move sponge filter and heater over. To protect heater, unplug it, allow cool for 5-10 min, move in, then finally plug heater back in. They can crack if moved too quickly.

(3) Once cycled sponge filter is running, your bucket-tank is filtered / cycled fine. No need for anxious water changes. Move fish in gently. If you are worried about ammonia buildup, just change no more than 2-gallons per day. If you feed at all, do so very sparingly.

(4) If you’re mixing old + new substrate, I like to use a small kid’s plastic sandbox / beach hand-shovel. Move over as much cycled water from original tank as possible. If your new substrate is inert, you can get rid of a lot of dust in the water by mixing it around in a pail in the tub, pouring out cloudy water, and repeating until it pours off clear. I’ve done this many times with fine-granule Black Diamond Blasting Sand. You can also put in a big HOB filter jammed with aquarium floss to strain out a lot of remaining cloudy dust. One trick I use if pouring water in on new substrate to keep it from getting hyper cloudy is lay out a sheet of bubble wrap on top of the substrate, and then pouring water onto that. It floats, and is easy to remove. The substrate underneath is not badly stirred up this way.

Thank you so much!

Sorry I am french and sometimes don’t understand very well but moving as much tank water as possible in the new tank or in a bucket to mix/wash old/new substrate?

Will my fish be ok 48 hours in a small tub/bin? What about the two gourami in the smaller (I will use breeding container) container floating?

I have fritz Zyme 7. Should I use it in the new 30 gallons tank when I add my back my fish just to make sure if I lost part of my cycle, things will be ok? 

 

[Fish Folk]

On 3/28/2022 at 4:26 PM, Karen B. said:

Thank you so much!

Sorry I am french and sometimes don’t understand very well but moving as much tank water as possible in the new tank or in a bucket to mix/wash old/new substrate?

Will my fish be ok 48 hours in a small tub/bin? What about the two gourami in the smaller (I will use breeding container) container floating?

I have fritz Zyme 7. Should I use it in the new 30 gallons tank when I add my back my fish just to make sure if I lost part of my cycle, things will be ok? 

 

What I understood was that you had a 20 gallon aquarium that you were moving all stock, substrate, and plants over to a 30 gallon aquarium. Was that correct?

Are the Gourami in the 20 gallon aquarium presently? Or are they somewhere else? If they are already in the 20 gallon tank, I am not sure that I understand why they need to be in a separated floating net / basket.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your project.

What I do when moving a tank, tearing down, and resetting is move fish out . . . move plants out . . . move hardscape out . . . move filters and heaters out . . . drain water . . . and then move substrate into buckets. The empty tank can be moved, or a new tank then set u in reverse order: (1) Substrate (2) Water (3) Heater and Filters (4) Hardscape (5) Plants (6) Fish. The Bio in the original substrate will be sufficient to maintain your cycle. If you're concerned, just be sure to use a sponge filter in the first place, and then the bio will be fine. As long as the substrate stays fairly wet, and the sponge filter does also, the bio colonies will be stable. If you have multiple pails, you can drain tank water out and then add it back in. Sometimes the cycled water is helpful for the fish and plants to maintain continuity.

Now, if you're _changing_ things by adding _new substrate_ along with your old substrate, then my explanation above is for readying the new substrate to be less cloudy, and for keeping the tank from getting overly stirred up.

I apologize if this is more confusing than helpful. Let me know what makes sense and what doesn't. I'm happy to help clarify things.

As long as your fish aren't changing temperature too much, they should be fine in smaller spaces for a limited time. Again, I suggest using sponge filters already cycled and tank water. So long as the heaters are properly working, you're fine to do that. Irene has a helpful video on building a temporary tank / quarantine tank from storage bin. I think this is it...

 

[Karen B.]

On 3/28/2022 at 4:38 PM, Fish Folk said:

What I understood was that you had a 20 gallon aquarium that you were moving all stock, substrate, and plants over to a 30 gallon aquarium. Was that correct?

Are the Gourami in the 20 gallon aquarium presently? Or are they somewhere else? If they are already in the 20 gallon tank, I am not sure that I understand why they need to be in a separated floating net / basket.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your project.

What I do when moving a tank, tearing down, and resetting is move fish out . . . move plants out . . . move hardscape out . . . move filters and heaters out . . . drain water . . . and then move substrate into buckets. The empty tank can be moved, or a new tank then set u in reverse order: (1) Substrate (2) Water (3) Heater and Filters (4) Hardscape (5) Plants (6) Fish. The Bio in the original substrate will be sufficient to maintain your cycle. If you're concerned, just be sure to use a sponge filter in the first place, and then the bio will be fine. As long as the substrate stays fairly wet, and the sponge filter does also, the bio colonies will be stable. If you have multiple pails, you can drain tank water out and then add it back in. Sometimes the cycled water is helpful for the fish and plants to maintain continuity.

Now, if you're _changing_ things by adding _new substrate_ along with your old substrate, then my explanation above is for readying the new substrate to be less cloudy, and for keeping the tank from getting overly stirred up.

I apologize if this is more confusing than helpful. Let me know what makes sense and what doesn't. I'm happy to help clarify things.

As long as your fish aren't changing temperature too much, they should be fine in smaller spaces for a limited time. Again, I suggest using sponge filters already cycled and tank water. So long as the heaters are properly working, you're fine to do that. Irene has a helpful video on building a temporary tank / quarantine tank from storage bin. I think this is it...

 

You understand correctly - and yes my gourami are already in the 20 gallons. But they chase each other so much in the 20 gallons (which is the reason why I am upgrading to a 30) that I would be afraid they hurt or stress each other in a 5 gallons.

I am keeping everything beside the branch that I will replace, will add more plants to the existing one and will be adding some substrate to my old one as I get 12 more inches to fill in space. The substrate I will add is Estes black river sand. On the bag, it is mentioned that it’s important to wait 48 hours before adding any fish. I emailed the company to know why :

« even after rinsing, the sand contains some very fine particles that need to settle or be removed by your filter system so they don't negatively affect your fish. And when you remove and replace the substrate, you effectively wipe out much of the colonies of Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas bacteria that convert Ammonia from fish waste to Nitrate. If you were to place the fish back in the tank right away, some if not all of them may be distressed and even die. Waiting 48 hours will help to ensure your fish are not stressed. »

[Fish Folk]

On 3/28/2022 at 4:53 PM, Karen B. said:

You understand correctly - and yes my gourami are already in the 20 gallons. But they chase each other so much in the 20 gallons (which is the reason why I am upgrading to a 30) that I would be afraid they hurt or stress each other in a 5 gallons.

I am keeping everything beside the branch that I will replace, will add more plants to the existing one and will be adding some substrate to my old one as I get 12 more inches to fill in space. The substrate I will add is Estes black river sand. On the bag, it is mentioned that it’s important to wait 48 hours before adding any fish. I emailed the company to know why :

« even after rinsing, the sand contains some very fine particles that need to settle or be removed by your filter system so they don't negatively affect your fish. And when you remove and replace the substrate, you effectively wipe out much of the colonies of Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas bacteria that convert Ammonia from fish waste to Nitrate. If you were to place the fish back in the tank right away, some if not all of them may be distressed and even die. Waiting 48 hours will help to ensure your fish are not stressed. »

If you are reusing your current substrate, and just adding to it, I _think_ your bio colonies will remain in tact. Now, if you are completely replacing, then yes, new substrate may not have a well-established bio build up yet. You certainly can add FritzZyme 7 to try to recharge bio with liquid starter. I do that… although I am always skeptical about how much it really works.

[Karen B.]

On 3/28/2022 at 5:16 PM, Fish Folk said:

If you are reusing your current substrate, and just adding to it, I _think_ your bio colonies will remain in tact. Now, if you are completely replacing, then yes, new substrate may not have a well-established bio build up yet. You certainly can add FritzZyme 7 to try to recharge bio with liquid starter. I do that… although I am always skeptical about how much it really works.

I am reusing my old substrate and just adding to it.

What bothers me is the wait for 48 hours because of the micro particules the Estes person say could harm my fish? 🤔

[Fish Folk]

Here was a tank we used Black Diamond  blasting sand in. This is the very day we set it up.

If you pour your sand substrate into a large pail, add water from your tub, and then swirl around by hand, pour off, refill, swirl, pour off… etc… in the tub, it will get much of the fine particulates out. It will make your tub very dirty though… 😬

This may take a long while to clean out the dust / fine particulates.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Fish Folk