Steve-B Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Greetings. Thanks to any who might add some insight. I'm new to the forum but rather expericed in the hobby. Six months ago I set up 3 high energy 40 gallon tanks. (high light/C02) I am running Oase biomaster 350 filters on two and a hang on the back on one. (tank on right has the hang on back). All have the same substate, maintance routine and have ceramic media in the filters. After water changes I expericce signifigant nitrite spikes in the two tanks with the cansiter filters. I have removed all but 1 sponge and subbed with more ceramic media. This has increased water flow. I have made these changes over the last 4 months to no avail. It is very clear that beneficial bacteria are dying off during the water changes and I have racked my mind on how to correct. I have not had this problem before and have used one of Oase filters on a 90 gal with no problems. I have tried keeping the fiilters on and turning them off during water changes, but this has not had any effect. I treat for chlorine etc faithfully, tempatures changes occur during water changes but I have no problem with this issue in other tanks. My latest thought is that C02/ph shifts may be the issue. I reallly would appreciate any thoughts. This is a mystry puzzle I am getting tired of playing. Many thanks! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Are there nitrites in your source water? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 Thanks for the question! I did a quick test with a tetra test strip. No significant nitrate or nitrate in my tap water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widgets Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 5:26 PM, Steve-B said: It is very clear that beneficial bacteria are dying off during the water changes and I have racked my mind on how to correct. I am not familiar with your filters, but I seems to me that you are doing too much to clean the filter, and are disturbing the beneficial bacteria. How are you cleaning the innards of the filter? Maybe you are doing too much. On 3/11/2022 at 5:26 PM, Steve-B said: I have removed all but 1 sponge and subbed with more ceramic media. This has increased water flow. Cory typically recommends replacing the filter material with 15ppi foam. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac M Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Hi @Steve-B, first of all, beautiful aquariums, I especially love the carpet of staurogyne repens. Anyways, how large of water changes are you making? And do the aquarium inhabitants react in any way to the nitrite? Did you test your tap water with or without the dechlorinator? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrencher_Scott Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) On 3/11/2022 at 2:26 PM, Steve-B said: Greetings. Thanks to any who might add some insight. I'm new to the forum but rather expericed in the hobby. Six months ago I set up 3 high energy 40 gallon tanks. (high light/C02) I am running Oase biomaster 350 filters on two and a hang on the back on one. (tank on right has the hang on back). All have the same substate, maintance routine and have ceramic media in the filters. After water changes I expericce signifigant nitrite spikes in the two tanks with the cansiter filters. I have removed all but 1 sponge and subbed with more ceramic media. This has increased water flow. I have made these changes over the last 4 months to no avail. It is very clear that beneficial bacteria are dying off during the water changes and I have racked my mind on how to correct. I have not had this problem before and have used one of Oase filters on a 90 gal with no problems. I have tried keeping the fiilters on and turning them off during water changes, but this has not had any effect. I treat for chlorine etc faithfully, tempatures changes occur during water changes but I have no problem with this issue in other tanks. My latest thought is that C02/ph shifts may be the issue. I reallly would appreciate any thoughts. This is a mystry puzzle I am getting tired of playing. Many thanks! I would seriously change out the ceramic media with course foam like 30 ppi. Think about it, as soon as that media becomes "mature" with bacteria it will also become plugged essentially making pieces of non-porous rock (not a good bio media) . Beautiful tanks BTW! Edited March 12, 2022 by Wrencher_Scott 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 7:26 PM, Widgets said: I am not familiar with your filters, but I seems to me that you are doing too much to clean the filter, and are disturbing the beneficial bacteria. How are you cleaning the innards of the filter? Maybe you are doing too much. Cory typically recommends replacing the filter material with 15ppi foam. Good thoughts. Here is a link to the filter. One of the greatest things about this unit it you clean the prefilter and leave the main spounges, ceramic or what every alone. No, I don't clean the innnard at all or maybe once a year. I like to keep a clean tank but not a clean filter ;^) https://store.oase-usa.com/products/oase-biomaster-thermo-350 On 3/11/2022 at 7:35 PM, Isaac M said: Hi @Steve-B, first of all, beautiful aquariums, I especially love the carpet of staurogyne repens. Anyways, how large of water changes are you making? And do the aquarium inhabitants react in any way to the nitrite? Did you test your tap water with or without the dechlorinator? Thanks for the compliment! I have experimented with 50%, 30%, 20% water changes with these tanks to see if that would be a factor. I tested the tap water but no signifanct nitrate or nitrite. Yes, regrettibly I have lost live stock to the issue, fish show stress by staying at the top of the tank. I have started using a fritz product to bolter the bateria when I see the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 7:35 PM, Isaac M said: Hi @Steve-B, first of all, beautiful aquariums, I especially love the carpet of staurogyne repens. Anyways, how large of water changes are you making? And do the aquarium inhabitants react in any way to the nitrite? Did you test your tap water with or without the dechlorinator? On 3/11/2022 at 9:13 PM, Wrencher_Scott said: I would seriously change out the ceramic media with course foam like 30 ppi. Think about it, as soon as that media becomes "mature" with bacteria it will also become plugged essentially making pieces of non-porous rock (not a good bio media) . Beautiful tanks BTW! Thanks for the compliments and the thought. I am a believer that few bio medias are bad, truley depend on the system in use. I still have a spounge in the main unit. I have used the cermic media with great success in many cases, especially in sumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 Big thanks to all for the suggestions! Really appriciate the input. The really funny thing about all this is the tank with $30 hang on back, has no problems but the two with $300+ filters do. Here is a link to biomaster if your not familiar...really cool features: https://store.oase-usa.com/products/oase-biomaster-thermo-350 Today I turned off the C02 to all three tanks, 24 hours before my water changes. It is my hope to rule out the ph spike, as this has come to be my lastest thought. The fish come to the top of the tank (12 to 24 hours after water change) which also makes me consider Oxygen depletion, that said I have added air stones in the past but stilll get the same display. Please keep the ideas coming; really appreicate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widgets Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 @Steve-B I assume you are cleaning the pre-filter with the water changes. The best practice is to squeeze out the pre-filter in the old tank water. Even though it is just a pre-filter, it also houses beneficial bacteria. Some folks try to get their sponges too clean. I have even heard some use tap water to clean the sponge, killing off some (or all) beneficial bacteria. If the pre-filter is not your problem, and you have already tested your source water, the only other thing I can think of is maybe the flow difference of a dirty pre-filter sponge vs a clean pre-filter sponge. I am not sure how that would work, but maybe the increased flow is hindering the efficiency of the downstream beneficial bacteria. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 Great thought! I clean the prefilter about once a month. I agree on the chlorine in tap water concern; good insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 2:26 PM, Steve-B said: It is my hope to rule out the ph spike, as this has come to be my lastest thought. PH swing isn't causing this. Whats the TDS of your source water and the TDS of the tank/s? Tap water can have quite a bit of CO2 in it coming from the waterworks. I would try filling a large water container and running a pump or air stone 24 hours ahead of time. I would dechlorinate at that time too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_G Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Beautiful tanks! 40g breeders are the perfect size for aquascaping and they really look good in a row like that! Have you tested your tap water for Ammonia? Here's a completely unscientific but plausible theory. Maybe there is ammonia in your tap water and the BB in the canister filters are able to convert it to Nitrite faster than they’re able to do the second stage so you end up with a spike in the middle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrencher_Scott Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 1:19 PM, Steve-B said: Thanks for the compliments and the thought. I am a believer that few bio medias are bad, truley depend on the system in use. I still have a spounge in the main unit. I have used the cermic media with great success in many cases, especially in sumps. Maybe consider K1 media instead of the ceramic too. I forgot about that. It would be good in sumps for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrencher_Scott Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 1:26 PM, Steve-B said: Big thanks to all for the suggestions! Really appriciate the input. The really funny thing about all this is the tank with $30 hang on back, has no problems but the two with $300+ filters do. Here is a link to biomaster if your not familiar...really cool features: https://store.oase-usa.com/products/oase-biomaster-thermo-350 Neat filter, hopefully it has a separate power plug for the heater? I'm thinking for a controller for backup in case it sticks on. What is that white plastic media it shows in the bottom? Could be a K1 clone, can't really tell from the pic. It looks to be setup great (if you ask me) My cascade is setup exactly like that, K1 in the bottom tray and all the rest of the trays have course foam. Perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 3:00 PM, Patrick_G said: Beautiful tanks! 40g breeders are the perfect size for aquascaping and they really look good in a row like that! Have you tested your tap water for Ammonia? Here's a completely unscientific but plausible theory. Maybe there is ammonia in your tap water and the BB in the canister filters are able to convert it to Nitrite faster than they’re able to do the second stage so you end up with a spike in the middle. Thanks so much for the compliment! Interesting idea on the ammonia. Don't have problems with other filters on smaller tanks, however might be factor with the cannister. On 3/12/2022 at 4:08 PM, Wrencher_Scott said: Yes they are very nice with the removable pre-filter, a huge plus. Yes there is a separate plug for the heater and the plastic media is k1 like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 1:50 PM, Mmiller2001 said: PH swing isn't causing this. Whats the TDS of your source water and the TDS of the tank/s? Tap water can have quite a bit of CO2 in it coming from the waterworks. I would try filling a large water container and running a pump or air stone 24 hours ahead of time. I would dechlorinate at that time too Tds 300ppm in tap, I have wicked hard water. Curtly showing same in the tank. Good thought on dechcloring before hand, I'll give that a try. That said, I don't have this problem in other tanks and I have been turning off the canisters and allowing 15 mins to ensure chlorine removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 6:27 PM, Steve-B said: Tds 300ppm in tap, I have wicked hard water. Curtly showing same in the tank. Good thought on dechcloring before hand, I'll give that a try. That said, I don't have this problem in other tanks and I have been turning off the canisters and allowing 15 mins to ensure chlorine removal. It's possible too that maybe you have a bit more chlorine/chloramine than your dechlorinator dose can handle. Maybe dose 2x dechlorinator. Interesting mystery you have going here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modified lung Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Did your tanks happen to cycle with a really high concentration of ammonia? A pH change of +/-1 can stall your bacteria temporarily but only if the change is immediate. Otherwise, what's your pH and alkalinity look like normally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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