What to expect when Angelfish are expecting?

[MarkM]

This past Saturday I added a second angelfish to my 29 gallon and they wasted no time pairing up.  Almost immediately they were showing what I assumed to be breeding behavior and was just happy they seemed to be coexisting and not fighting.  At lunch I caught them in the act.

As you can see they decided my mag float was the perfect surface for laying eggs.  So my first question is, can I move it?  It was positioned right under my auto feeder and I don't want the other fish in the tank thinking I've laid out a new caviar plate for them (and increase agitation with the angelfish defending their territory).  I can move the autofeeder, but rest of fish are used to being fed in that location, so I think ideally I'd move the mag float.

I'll be searching forum for existing posts with advice, but any suggestions for good threads appreciated.  

 

[Fish Folk]

This might be helpful to you. Good luck!!

 

[StevesFishTanks]

I think this blog article from Angels Plus is worth checking out. 

How to breed angelfish

[MarkM]

Appreciate the article and videos.   They consolidated a lot of the general info I was looking for and saved me a ton of time searching.  

The eggs being in the tank were already causing issues as apparently the swordtails think they're delicious.  I've moved them into their own 10 gallon tank with an airstone positioned beneath them.  Being on a magfloat makes it easy to position them at least. 

I don't have any meth blue on hand, but have seen numerous reports of people successfully substituting Ich-x (malachite green).  If  LFS don't have any meth blue available will likely give ich-x a shot. 

 

 

[MarkM]

Been a busy couple of weeks, but just a quick update. 

I was able to get some meth blue from a LFS the next day.  (and have since been reminded just how well strong a stain it is. The silicone is now a lovely shade of blue). 

About 2/3 the eggs made it to wiggler, and another 2/3 of those have survived to day 21.  I have some videos from along the way that eventually I'll put together, but think I'll wait until its more than a collection of slightly out of focus super small fry. 

I've been feeding a combination of Hikari First Bites (bought because I wasn't sure the BBS wouldn't arrive in time) and hatching BBS daily.  It's honestly way less of an inconvenience than I thought it'd be.

 

 

The pair of angelfish have spawned twice more since the initial group that I moved.  I left both spawns in place as I didn't want to be overwhelmed by fry.  Initial spawn was beneath my auto feeder so I put the 3d printed slate in the same place the magfloat was originally and then moved the auto feeder to the other side of the tank.

Apparently the angelfish are no fools and saw thru my trickery.  They moved to the other side of the tank to remain by the autofeeder, ignored my provided slate and utilized my Anubias. 

 

That spawn lasted about 48 hours before being completely devoured. I gave up trying to get them to spawn away from the auto feeder and moved the slate to that side of the tank. A week later they deemed it acceptable.

I designed the slate to be held in place with a Coop airline holders, this way if I want to move the entire slate I can easily hold in place in different tanks without messing around with removing suction cups.   

I've left this spawn in place and so far its been much calmer than the first 2.  So far we're 72 hours in and they're still there.  I'm sure long term this will likely not work, but I'm curious to see what happens. 

[Ken Burke]

On 3/9/2022 at 3:51 PM, Fish Folk said:

This might be helpful to you. Good luck!!

 

Outstanding videos!  Now I got questions.

Is a 20 gal high large enough for single pair of angels?  I pulled all the fish outta my 20t, now it houses shrimp and only shrimp.  
 

did keeping the light on help keep the parents for eating the eggs?

I liked your use of a Specimen Container to pull the eggs.  Will the one Aquarium Coop sells work?
 

How much h2o2 did you use?

 

 

[StevesFishTanks]

20 tall is a good size for a breeding pair

[Fish Folk]

On 4/9/2022 at 11:52 PM, Ken Burke said:

Outstanding videos!  Now I got questions.

Is a 20 gal high large enough for single pair of angels?  I pulled all the fish outta my 20t, now it houses shrimp and only shrimp.  
 

did keeping the light on help keep the parents for eating the eggs?

I liked your use of a Specimen Container to pull the eggs.  Will the one Aquarium Coop sells work?
 

How much h2o2 did you use?

 

 

A 20 gal high is OK or breeding, or raising fry. But in the end, Angels most likely will need larger digs. I'd say a 29 gal is the smallest I'd venture for a full Angel lifetime. 55 gal is even better.

Our angels spawned a number of times. I think that most of the time, when we didn't pull eggs, they ate them -- even when we left the lights on. But one time, if I recall, they left them alone over night.

We've leveled up now, and no longer use specimen containers. Instead, I DIY-adapted a fry tray from Dean Tweeddale's fish room design. You can review the whole build here.

In two quick snapshots, it looks like this:

 

Here's a video I took today showing a batch of GBR fry that I raised this past month -- zero water changes, apart form the weekly WC i do for the overall tank. Loads of molm. But look at them! They're fantastic! This is what you want to do to raise Angels:

I use 1/2 ml every 12 hrs for 3x total doses (e.g. evening / morning / evening). But with the flow-through, it's probably not as essential to measure perfectly. 1 ml would be alright. Just don't squirt the H2O2 directly on the eggs. Let it more or less dissipate through the container.

You can track the most recent project with the GBRs here, go to the bottom of page 9.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Fish Folk

[Ken Burke]

On 4/9/2022 at 11:32 PM, Fish Folk said:

A 20 gal high is OK or breeding, or raising fry. But in the end, Angels most likely will need larger digs. I'd say a 29 gal is the smallest I'd venture for a full Angel lifetime. 55 gal is even better.

.

 

Day to day they are in a 38g community tank.  Not having any issues with water parameters or aggression, so while on the small side, I think it’s big enough.  
 

I dream about a 75 for some discus, but not sure how they would work with angels.  I don’t have room for a 75 unless I give up the 38. I’ve had Hank for 3 or 4 years now, so any plan that involves getting rid of him is a nonstarter. 

[Ken Burke]

Just ordered stuff to build the floating breeder box!  

[Fish Folk]

On 4/10/2022 at 10:23 AM, Ken Burke said:

Just ordered stuff to build the floating breeder box!  

I add some silicone or water-proof sealant around the top and bottom edge of the styrofoam to make sure the collar doesn't move.

[Ken Burke]

@Fish Folki was thing the same thing.  Especially on the top to keep the bin from falling through.  I think I’m gonna use pot scrubbers to cover the holes, mostly because I have some on hand.  

[MarkM]

The next morning the eggs had been eaten again, setting a new record of 96 hours. 
 

Last Thursday they spawned again and I decided to pull the eggs after a couple hours. I was able to add methylene blue right away this time. To say there was a much higher fertilization rate is an understatement. I got curious and took a picture to attempt a count. I could pick out 236 wigglers and then there’s gotta be 50 more all clumped together. 
 

I think I’m gonna need a bigger grow out tank…

[Ken Burke]

On 4/9/2022 at 11:32 PM, Fish Folk said:

A 20 gal high is OK or breeding, or raising fry. But in the end, Angels most likely will need larger digs. I'd say a 29 gal is the smallest I'd venture for a full Angel lifetime. 55 gal is even better.

Our angels spawned a number of times. I think that most of the time, when we didn't pull eggs, they ate them -- even when we left the lights on. But one time, if I recall, they left them alone over night.

We've leveled up now, and no longer use specimen containers. Instead, I DIY-adapted a fry tray from Dean Tweeddale's fish room design. You can review the whole build here.

In two quick snapshots, it looks like this:

 

Here's a video I took today showing a batch of GBR fry that I raised this past month -- zero water changes, apart form the weekly WC i do for the overall tank. Loads of molm. But look at them! They're fantastic! This is what you want to do to raise Angels:

I use 1/2 ml every 12 hrs for 3x total doses (e.g. evening / morning / evening). But with the flow-through, it's probably not as essential to measure perfectly. 1 ml would be alright. Just don't squirt the H2O2 directly on the eggs. Let it more or less dissipate through the container.

You can track the most recent project with the GBRs here, go to the bottom of page 9.

So what do u do when when u find angel fry in your community tank and need to get them out, but haven’t received all the parts for your floating fry box?   U got it, innovate!

 

here is my tweak