When do you set up a Quarantine Tank for new fish?

[KittenFishMom]

Hello to all you Nerms and all the fish at sea (you need to be old to understand that reference)

I wonder what your timing is for setting up a quarantine tank when you are planning to buy new fish? Should I set it up the early in the day I plan to go buy the fish? Or is it better to set it up a week or 2 in advance, to get it cycling? Maybe a QT doesn't need to cycle if you start with fresh water the first day, in a clean tank and don't feed the fish until the 5th day?

The video I watched about setting up a QT tank showed that she had a bare bottom in the tank.  I see lots of tanks with bare bottoms in videos, but I'm not sure how that works because when I tried it, the ammonia kept spiking with no nitrates or nitrites in the water,  even with a used sponge filter.  When I put substate at each end of the tank, things settled down quickly. (Can a bare bottom tank be cycled and seasoned?)

I want to get more Endlers and Corydoras to put with the 3 Endlers and 1 Corydora I have with the 1 male betta.  They have been though 2 of the 3 meds of the quarantine trio, so I think I need to add the ParaCleanse to the current fish and start a new QT for the new fish. Or can I add the additional fish to the current QT tank and start the trio over? Would treating the fish that are in the QT with the antibiotic and Ick-X a second time be hard on them?

The betta is much stronger and the Endlers are doing well. I almost never see the Corydora. I think he is hiding because he is alone. I got the banned killifish out after the second guppy died. The third guppy died. I don't know if the betta went after him because he was the only one or if the whole group had something going on when I brought them home, and would have died anyway. I want to get the additional Endlers and Corydoras added to the tank as soon as I can, while doing the correct thing quarantine wise.

Right now my only active sponge filter is in my quarantine tank with the fish I bought a week ago.  I have 2 new sponge filters, and some used filter material I took out of an active filter.  I could put the used material in a tank with the new sponges to get them going.  But I don't know if it will work to cycle the tank if I keep the tank bottom bare.

 

[PineSong]

 

I guess in theory a totally bare tank would be cycled if the filter was cycled--meaning it had grown enough beneficial bacteria to process all the fish waste. 

I have not kept my QT tanks totally bare because I use a handful of gravel from established tanks to help start the QT tank cycling. I also throw in plants to help with ammonia and to make the fish feel more secure. If you don't have extra aquarium plants you can use cuttings of pothos and just stick them in the QT tank to root.

I don't mix new fish in QT with fish who have already started the process; I am not sure what others do. 

About your guppy deaths; in my experience pet store guppies are the trickiest fish to get through QT. I would be reluctant to complicate that tricky process further by having a betta in the tank. Many bettas cannot live with guppies safely, and in a bare tank, aggression or harassing chasing might be even more likely.

I would finish up the betta QT and keep him by himself until you have all the fish you are going to put in the community tank though QT and living in the tank where they will stay, and then add the betta after a few days and watch everyone closely for aggression.

I do recommend water testing daily while your fish are in QT because in my experience Maracyn kills the cycle, so even if you started out with a filter from a long-established tank, it won't stay cycled when you are using Maracyn. 

 

[KittenFishMom]

@PineSong Thanks. I guess if the Maracyn is likely to kill the cycle, then there isn't a lot of benefit it trying to get the tank cycled before I start the quarantine. I have a huge punch bowl full of hornwort I have been quarantining for over a week by the siding glass doors. I can put a bunch of that in the QT to make it a better place. I can put gravel on the bottom too.  

(I have never bought fish before, always caught/captured native fish in front of the cottage, before the group I bought when I got the betta. Quarantining is very new to me)

[Minanora]

Maracyn doesn't kill an established bacterial culture. I'm a fan of the peroxide dip for plants now. I've quarantined plants for many weeks then unknowingly introduced hydra into my tanks as they didn't show up in the tanks until several months later.

I started my 10G quarantine with fishless fuel at a dose for a 20G, with extra sponge blocks in the bottom, a clean filter, an extra sponge filter, fake plants, and a ridiculous pineapple hide decoration. I let it sit for 3 weeks. and then fed it at the same 20G dose. it could take any beating I threw at it. Until I had 108 babies in that volume.... then it was battle royale! 😛

 

Guppies are a pita to quarantine. I nuke them. They can take it, especially early on. Pet store ones are the absolute worst and I quarantine them for at least a month in the same parameters as my display tank. I always start with the Co-op med trio. Then I tend to wind up adding another course of maracyn, and paracleanse. at week 2. and then have to keep dosing for a week. That's just my experience. I fight with every guppy addition I ever have, private breeder or not. I would definitely not add any other fish into a quarantine set. It's just too difficult to track progression. And with less tolerant fish, they don't appreciate the excessive doses of meds. I'm obsessed with guppies btw. :) 

[KittenFishMom]

@Minanora Where can I find the instruction for your peroxide dip treatment for plants?

Also being a newbie, What is "fishless fuel", "a 20G dose", and "sponge blocks"? Is the first 20G dose and the 3 week later 20G feed the same thing? After the 3 weeks, do you keep feeding the 20G feed daily?

Then Do you keep using it as a quarantine tank. If you do, Once a set of fish are quarantined and removed, do you do anything to the tank before you start a new set of fish to quarantine? 

I think this means it will be about month or more before I can add any new Corydoras to the one that is hiding by himself in the current QT tank? Am I right?

 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@KittenFishMomgreat advice from @Minanoraand @PineSong. 
I’m not exactly sure what @Minanorawas talking to directly but there are over-the-counter supplements like Fritzyme 7, Turbo Start and others that can be added to essentially instant start a cycle. I think she may also be referring to the use of sponges or media from another tank. Both of these are something I use frequently. Once you have tanks you always keep spare sponges and media around for this reason. 
In terms of cleaning and resetting tanks I often dump a whole bottle of hydrogen peroxide into the tank, let it sit for 4-12 hours depending on my schedule and then clean everything with a vinegar solution. This combo makes peracetic acid which is a great cleaner and disinfectant. 
Id say your timing of a month is right unless you grab another small tank, tub or tote and grab them now and qt them. 

[Minanora]

I'm not the best communicator... I'm often in my own head. Possibly more than half of the time.

I was mainly referring to adding ammonia. I use fritz fishless fuel and that's my tried and true for cycling a sterile quarantine. I have added safe start, or stability, before, and it did speed it up a bit. But I don't use seeded media from other tanks in my quarantine just because I like to have a "clean slate" for fish with a weakened immune system.

[PineSong]

On 12/26/2021 at 11:54 PM, Minanora said:

Maracyn doesn't kill an established bacterial culture.

I may be mistaken and I may also be confusing the effect of Maracyn and Maracyn 2 on my tank.

I used Maracyn as a QT med for all new fish when I first got my community tank, and that tank did not yet have a well-established cycle so I could not say it headed south so much as maybe it seemed I got nowhere for a long time in cycling it. 

But I have used Maracyn 2  in my QT tank which has been set up and cycled since late July or August and has a ton of plants in it, too, and have had nitrates out the wazoo day after day when there is only 1-2 fish in the tank after weeks of being no increase in nitrates with 5 larger fish. This has happened twice.

And to be clear, I don't consider the impact on the cycle a reason to not use these meds--just a reminder to test water daily as what you know/are familiar with about your tank water may change when they are in use.

[Chris]

Honestly, for me it's depended on my situation at the time. Sometimes I have the room and time to keep a couple QT's set up and running, and sometimes I need the space or those tanks for something else. I always keep several pieces of cycled sponges in different tanks to make sure that I always have some media ready when/if I decide I'm ready to get fish. I've been known to occasionally impulse-buy fish with no QT set up, and for me to just come home and spend an hour or two setting the tank up and getting it to temp. Fish are usually okay in bags for a few hours, so I've never worried too much about it unless the fish were bagged noticeably poorly, in which case I just re-bag them myself and carry on my way.

I don't recommend that method of doing things, and I do my best not to do it often - but it does work when done correctly.

As far as antibiotic's killing beneficial bacteria, I've truly never experienced that. I've actually had a couple debates on other forums over it, and at one point had someone on a saltwater forum dedicated to fish disease chime in. This person is kind of the go-to in a lot of saltwater communities when it comes to disease ID and treatment:

 

In the end, I failed to find out anything particularly concrete. It was all anecdotal evidence and personal experiences - no actual studies.

But, FWIW, I've dosed Erythromycin (Maracyn is the same thing, I believe) and Kanamycin without any noticeable ammonia/nitrite spikes in my freshwater and saltwater QT's.

[Minanora]

On 12/27/2021 at 1:57 PM, PineSong said:

I may be mistaken and I may also be confusing the effect of Maracyn and Maracyn 2 on my tank.

I used Maracyn as a QT med for all new fish when I first got my community tank, and that tank did not yet have a well-established cycle so I could not say it headed south so much as maybe it seemed I got nowhere for a long time in cycling it. 

But I have used Maracyn 2  in my QT tank which has been set up and cycled since late July or August and has a ton of plants in it, too, and have had nitrates out the wazoo day after day when there is only 1-2 fish in the tank after weeks of being no increase in nitrates with 5 larger fish. This has happened twice.

And to be clear, I don't consider the impact on the cycle a reason to not use these meds--just a reminder to test water daily as what you know/are familiar with about your tank water may change when they are in use.

I should be more specific in my statements. Maracyn, in my experience, doesn't totally wipe out a healthy bacterial colony. It will dampen it. That's the reason I build up my bacteria by over growing with that heightened "bio-load" doses of ammonia.

The thing about it in a quarantine to remember as well, you're probably not going to have a "full load" of fish per aquarium volume. IE, fully stocked. So I imagine that a standard fishless cycle would be fine for getting a strong bacterial culture going. That would withstand the shock of meds.

My success could also have to do with my pH and temperatures. But I've never thought about it that much. I maintain at about 7.8 these days.

I just know that I set up my quarantine tank a few days ago... again... Long story there! But I dosed the 10G at a 10G rate, then once the nitrites fall, I'll dose it again at the 20G rate, and add stability at a double dose as well. I added a "micro" sponge filter that will eventually go into my shrimp tank, and those fake plants and pineapple house. After that sponge is seeded, I'll switch it out for the one that's in the shrimp tank now, after sanitizing it, and repeat step 1 and 2 and keep it there. I do keep the quarantine tank colder (room temp) until I need it for fish. Then I put it at 74 with a 100 watt heater; If I didn't mention, my quarantine/hospital tank is a 10G.

I try to always have a quarantine tank set up. Makes me feel prepared. Sorry about my poor communication... Like I said, I spend half of my time in my head, not realizing that other people can't read/see what I'm thinking. 😛

[Minanora]

I agree with @PineSong regarding testing daily during quarantine/treatment.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Minanora
I had "do agree" which is incorrect, because there was nothing that I didn't agree with to begin with. Context repair.

[KittenFishMom]

I'm very new. I have a lot of fun trying to figure out the acronyms and vocabulary that the people who know the answers to my questions use.  I am getting there, but when a bunch are used in the same paragraph, I can get rather lost.

[Minanora]

On 12/27/2021 at 6:45 PM, KittenFishMom said:

I'm very new. I have a lot of fun trying to figure out the acronyms and vocabulary that the people who know the answers to my questions use.  I am getting there, but when a bunch are used in the same paragraph, I can get rather lost.

Open book here! All of us are, I'm sure!

No questions are invalid, and we're all happy to elaborate if you need any clarification at all. Truly.

I've asked questions with my arms and legs flailing in the air as I panic about the well being of my tiny fishies. Lol. Sometimes all logic can escape me. I'm an emotional creature. >.<

[KittenFishMom]

No, I do have fun. I kept getting Local Fish Store LFS mixed up with Long Shelf-life Food LSF. That made many sentences very confusing.

[Jeff]

I set up my quarantine tank kinda-sorta at the same time as when I'm setting up my display tank. I get the walls and the bottom filled with algae, so that if there's times where I'm not quarantining fish, it won't lose bacteria.

It's easier IMO to always keep a quarantine tank running at all times, so that you A) don't have to have an extra filter in your tank to switch over for it, and B) ready to go, if a fish in your display tank needs to be medicated right away.