Max Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) Hello, I just spotted my female honey gourami as seen in the picture. The belly seems to be torn open, but after this photo where she was laying in the moss, she swam relatively normal again. From the very beginning, she was always thicker than my male honey gourami. At very first, I thought she had eggs. But I think the true reason for her huge belly is that she just always eats too much. I have lots of different fish in the 350L tank along with the honey gouramis (angelfish, corys, otos, amano shrimp, rummy nose tetras), so I need to feed a lot, and she always eats from the top when feeding the tetras and angelfish but then also eats a lot from the bottom food for the catfish. So the question now is, did she just eat so much that her stomach ripped open, or might she had a disease for month now? Additional info: Water parameters: ph 7.2-7.5 / gH 12-13 / kH 11 / NO2 0, NO3 maybe around 10 mg/l before a water change / temperature right now a little hotter because of summer, usually 26-27°C (around 79 F), now more 28°C (82 F). Big water change was just a few days ago. I had one of my angelfish die of dropsy a few days ago. But he was a kind of rescue fish from the beginning, he only had 1 eye and other deformations, probably from the breeding process (its a blue angelfish). All other angels and all other fish are fine, and most importantly: The female honey gourami was this thick long before the angelfish got sick, so I cannot imagine this also being dropsy, since she still acted mostly normal ("dancing" with the male honey gourami and eating as I said - the angelfish stopped eating a few days before dying). What should I do now? Anesthetize her and kill her to end potential pain? Keep her in a fry holding net thing inside the tank and not feed her for a while and hope she recovers? Or take her out into another tank? I have an empty 10 gallon which is currently getting cycled, but I fear the stress of moving her could also kill her... I really really don't want her to die, but this looks pretty bad 😢 Best, Max Edit: added another photo from just now, she's swimming at the top and taking in air from the surface frequently (she also recently lost half of one of her feelers sadly) Edited July 5, 2021 by Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 I don't think it's feed, this fish looks ill. Her color is pale. I'm so sorry 😞 I don't know how to diagnose or what the course of action is beyond that. I hope Colu comes in to weigh in, his suggestions are always excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 On 6/19/2021 at 4:34 PM, laritheloud said: I don't think it's feed, this fish looks ill. Her color is pale. I'm so sorry 😞 I don't know how to diagnose or what the course of action is beyond that. I hope Colu comes in to weigh in, his suggestions are always excellent. What I would do is take some of the filter media from your main and put it in the the 10 gallon to speed things up then I would move her to the ten gallon I don't think she fat it could be internal bacterial infection what I would do is treat with aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 2 gallons to stop secondary fungal or bacterial infection setting in on the wounds and maracyn for the internal bacterial infection I wouldn't feed for a couple of days while treating to provent ammonia spikes and see how she goes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 Thank you for your advice. Sadly she is just died ☹️ Do you think I have to worry about the other fish in the tank also getting sick now? I would say everybody acts normal. And if she was this fat or close to this fat for months, would you say she was also ill that long? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 Maybe you can tell me if any of my angelfish look sick to you (I fed maybe 5-6 hours ago). I think I will stop feeding for a while to see if their bellys get smaller then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) As you have had another fish die from a bacterial infection I would do a course of maracyn as a procautionary treatment just in case anything else is going on your angelfish looks a bit big am not sure whether it's fat or something else is going on @Max Edited June 19, 2021 by Colu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 On 6/20/2021 at 12:43 AM, Colu said: As you have had another fish die from a bacterial infection I would do a course of maracyn as a procautionary treatment just in case anything else is going on your angelfish looks a bit big am not sure whether it's fat or something else is going on @Max Sadly I'm in Germany so I don't have access to the same medicine as in America. I bought this from Sera: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0010RP3SG Bactopur, which has the active ingredients Acriflavinium chloride and Methylthioninium chloride and is advertised for bacterial infections. Appearently it turns the water green, I will get it tomorrow (stores are closed on Sunday in Germany...). I also bought medicine for fungal, ich and a more broader medicine that is advertised to help for the most common fish disease. I should have bought something like this already, I know 😖 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 As you will be treating with a product containing acriflavin just keep an eye out for ammonia spikes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 Hi, I wanted to give an update and ask a follow up question. I used the medicine and everything went fine, I did a water change a few days later and went easy with the feeding. Two of the angelfish already layed eggs twice since, so they appear healthy. But one of the other angelfish, what I assume to be the second big female, is also very bloated now. I did feed a lot yesterday though, and she acts normal for now: She is still eating, what the previous two fish did not do when this bloated. Here two other angelfish for comparison: This in the front is also a female of similar size. Should I immediately dose the antibacterial medicine again, use a "general purpose" medicine (ingredients: aminoacridine hydrochloride, acriflavinium chloride, Ethacridine lactate monohydrate, malachite green oxalate), or wait and not feed again? I could also move her to a 10 gallon aquarium and treat only her, but I'm not sure this wouldn't then still spread if it indeed is something that spreads and not a false alarm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) Does she have any pineconeing I can't tell off the pictures Edited July 5, 2021 by Colu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 I assume you mean scales stading out? I would say no but here are more images of her. I also should add that she does get bullied by the dominant pair a lot currently. In general, the tank is more tense between the angelfish since the dominant male died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 That could be from over eating I would fast her for a couple of days if the bloating doesn't Go down then I would treat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 Okay, thank you very much! I'm a little more nervous about all of this than usual since the two other fish died... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 8:36 PM, Max said: Okay, thank you very much! I'm a little more nervous about all of this than usual since the two other fish died... If you can get Sera baktopur direct tables it's active ingredient is nifurpirinol which is a broad spectrum antibiotic that a Better treatment just incase you have to treat her 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 Thank you for the suggestion, I was able to order Sera baktopur direct tablets as well as Sera bakto tabs, both contain nifurpirinol, the first has to dissolve in water, the second is anti-bacterial food. I hope they arrive tomorrow. As for an update, I think she is getting slimmer but is still a lot thicker than the other 3 angelfish. The images are 36 hours after the previous ones. I fed a little bit after the images just to check if she was still eating (as the other two dead fish weren't at some point), and she ate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) If she had dropsy I wouldn't expect the bloating to go down it could be suffering from constipation have you see her pass anything Edited July 8, 2021 by Colu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) Yes, multiple times, but I noticed differences consistencies and colors. Once is was a firm and thicker with red/brown color, after that is was more thin and white (see pictures). But I assume this is just caused by the different foods I feed (I feed a dry food mix in the morning with vibra bites, tetra flakes and some other granulates etc.) and usually white, black or blood worms (in Germany we call them white / black / red mosquito larvae, I assume these are the same) in the evening. Today, she had one scale standing out, but since the angelfish are still fighting more then usual, I assume it is because of that. The medicine arrived today. From the instructions, it seems to be a lot stronger than the first one I used, recommending water changes every 2 days during treatment of 7 days, compared to one dose of the other one. I fed something today, and as expected she is thicker again. She acts totally normal, so I would say probably still waiting. Maybe some of the food I feed is the problem, I heard in a livestream of Cory that some dwarf cichlids had problems with red blood worms, maybe I will leave those out for a while. I also read that constipation might be solved by higher temperatures and/or feeding daphnia, I could try that also. Edited July 8, 2021 by Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 I would recommend only feeding Blood worms 1-2 time a week as they are very high in protein 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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