Young tetras flashing?

[laritheloud]

So my two diamond tetra fry are flashing a little. I notice it after the injected CO2 turns off for the day, and I noticed it after a water change last night. No other fish are flashing except for the 1 inch young tetras, and nothing has been added to the tank. Parameters are Ammonia 0, Nitrite, 0, Nitrate 20 to 25 PPM. Is this something I should watch closely, or is it just fry being curious fry? Is it worthwhile to try a prophylatic treatment on my display tank? I have pretty much every med under the sun, and if anything, I'd use PraziPro and/or Ich X... but I'm not seeing any other signs.

Thoughts? Should I leave it be?

[Fish Folk]

Saw my Ram flashing. Found Ich a bit later in the day. Just watch closely. Hard to see on those beautiful diamonds. 

[laritheloud]

16 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

Saw my Ram flashing. Found Ich a bit later in the day. Just watch closely. Hard to see on those beautiful diamonds. 

Is it something I should just treat in case? I have shrimp and snails but I believe the meds are invert safe. I’m watching but I’m not really seeing anything yet and I haven’t caught them doing it again now that the co2 is off. I will check again tomorrow.

[Fish Folk]

I’d just keep an eye on them closely.

[laritheloud]

Also as a note: I noticed I might have put in too much fertilizer and actually water changed about 50% two days in a row to bring nitrates down to around 20ppm. Before it was at 40 to 50 and I didn’t feel comfortable leaving it that high.

thanks @Fish Folk I’ll watch and worst case is I add in some ich x

[laritheloud]

17 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

I’d just keep an eye on them closely.

This is one of my juveniles by the way! The older adult male is scarred in the face from a bit of mouth rot, but it’s healed.

[laritheloud]

Checked on the tank this morning. No signs of white spots, no flashing, everyone's eating ravenously (because of course they are 😂). I'm developing a bit of protein film on the surface of the water that I'm working to remediate, but I really think I've just been over-fertilizing for a couple of weeks without checking my nitrates very closely. I'll keep watching, tomorrow is a fast day.

Once my gouramis are out of quarantine, I'll be adding some water lettuce to my display to try and help alleviate some of the nutrient build-up. My 10 gallon has gone from 5 to 10 nitrates + fertilizer to 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 0 nitrates by the end of a week, and most of the plant mass in there is floating!

[laritheloud]

Spotted a young tetra flashing against plants again after the CO2 turned on. There are visible particles in the water that I can't seem to clear completely. None of my other fish are flashing, and there are no ich spots, no fin clamping, appetite is good and they ate voraciously. 

Could the particulates and the CO2 injection be itching them? I can't decide if it's wise to throw in some PraziPro and/or Ich X or to just let it be. Thoughts, @Fish Folk?

[laritheloud]

As a general note: I have previously treated the display tank with Ich X and General Cure a few months ago, before I knew I had fry in the tank. They might have been wrigglers throughout treatment.

EDIT: I did some google searching and it looks like excess CO2 injection could cause flashing. I'm going to turn down the injection a bit and see if there's improvement, as I recently did try to increase injection and that was the only change to the tank.

Edited June 5, 2021 by laritheloud

[Fish Folk]

1 hour ago, laritheloud said:

I'm going to turn down the injection a bit and see if there's improvement

^my thoughts exactly^

[Fish Folk]

You turn your CO2 off an night, right?

[laritheloud]

19 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

You turn your CO2 off an night, right?

Yep, sure do! I run it for 6.5 hours, 1.5 hours before lights on max, 1 hour before lights off.

[Mmiller2001]

CO2 and fertilizer do not cause flashing. You need to maintain 20 to 30ppm CO2 or you are going to have problems. I would look at other sources for the flashing. 

For a while, I was dosing 30ppm Nitrates, resulting in 60+ nitrates with no I'm ill effect. Think of NO3 from fertilizer as different from NO3 from fish.

[laritheloud]

9 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

CO2 and fertilizer do not cause flashing. You need to maintain 20 to 30ppm CO2 or you are going to have problems. I would look at other sources for the flashing. 

For a while, I was dosing 30ppm Nitrates, resulting in 60+ nitrates with no I'm ill effect. Think of NO3 from fertilizer as different from NO3 from fish.

Interesting, thanks for your input. I'll keep watching, and I might try a round of PraziPro if I see more fish flashing. Could high TDS cause the flashing? I might have overdone the root tabs.

[Mmiller2001]

Just now, laritheloud said:

Interesting, thanks for your input. I'll keep watching, and I might try a round of PraziPro if I see more fish flashing. Could high TDS cause the flashing? I might have overdone the root tabs.

What is the TDS of the tank? Are all your fish soft water fish? 

I would look at the TDS of the tank and the TDS of your source water. If there's a large difference, that could cause some irritation. I would expect to see flashing after a water change though.

I had a very resistant strain of flukes. I would treat and it would be fine for some weeks and then the flashing would start all over again. Finally, I had to dose prazi Pro for 5 weeks straight and Paracleanse for another 2 weeks to finally cure the problem.

[laritheloud]

1 minute ago, Mmiller2001 said:

What is the TDS of the tank? Are all your fish soft water fish? 

I would look at the TDS of the tank and the TDS of your source water. If there's a large difference, that could cause some irritation. I would expect to see flashing after a water change though.

I had a very resistant strain of flukes. I would treat and it would be fine for some weeks and then the flashing would start all over again. Finally, I had to dose prazi Pro for 5 weeks straight and Paracleanse for another 2 weeks to finally cure the problem.

I don't actually own a TDS meter, but I know that my water is fairly hard (around 10 dGH) and alkaline (aquifer water). I fertilized pretty aggressively in the past two weeks and measured my nitrates as fairly high even after a weekly 50% water change. 

I keep tank-bred diamond tetras which were bought from my LFS -- and the LFS, when I tested the bag water, actually had harder water than my own. The tetras have bred and continue to attempt to spawn sporadically with no special care. I also keep corydoras elegans in this water, and haven't seen any persistent flashing issues with them -- only with the young 1 inch or so tetra, which are maybe 40 to 50 days old now? I only have a best estimate and not an exact age!

I also have 6 amano shrimp that hide most of the time under a specific clump of java moss, except when they want to steal a catfish tablet. 3 mystery snails and 2 nerites are also in the tank. I just tested the water right now and it's ammonia 0, nitrite 0, Ph 7.4 or 7.6 (somewhere between them, down from the normal Ph 8.2) and nitrates around 20 to 25 ppm.

If they are gill flukes, I'm surprised I haven't been seeing any other worrying symptoms. The fish are intensely colored, active, spawning, and feeding vigorously.

[Mmiller2001]

Looks like you are low on CO2 FYI.

Keep an eye on them. If any other fish starts flashing, it's most likely flukes.

 

[laritheloud]

Just now, Mmiller2001 said:

Looks like you are low on CO2 FYI.

Keep an eye on them. If any other fish starts flashing, it's most likely flukes.

 

Thank you, I'll continue to tinker slowly and keep a close eye on them.

[laritheloud]

I still think the CO2 injection might have something to do with this, because again, not a trace of flashing when the CO2 is shut off. It's very strange. It's possible the CO2 bubbles is aggravating some sort of prior irritation, but who knows. I did throw in a dose of PraziPro just in case, and I'll follow through with a water change and a second round to cover my bases. Gouramis will stay in quarantine an extra 3 weeks to ensure that stress is low and all possibilities of parasites are gone before I introduce them.

Funny enough, the 29 gallon tank gives me way more stress than my 10 gallon quarantine (I am anxiety-prone and working on it, but I do spend too much time scrutinizing my fish for signs of disease -- I no longer panic, though, and force myself to wait an extra day or two before taking any med action). My gourami are so soothing to interact with and they're incredibly friendly and mild. Parameters have always been sparkling, too, even through their treatments.