Help!! They’re invading!

[Tre]

I have a 10 gallon that was cycled with coop plants and some they didn’t have. I wanted a betta but in the meantime added cherry shrimp and 3 Amanos. The 3 Amano had died about 2 weeks in. (Last week) bummer. Now this week we saw them. Tons of little white worms. I looked close and thought they were Rhabdocela and posted on social media to get confirmation. Most agreed. I had a nerite and ramshorn arrive and quarantined. I figured the worms are harmless and I added the snails after acclimating. They were both active. I returned a short time later and the Tiger Nerite was swarmed. I was frantic and pulled him out. 
I updated and posted online to see if I could get help. Some said Planaria (despite no triangular head I can see). Others said snail leeches. They don’t move like leeches though. 
the nerite is in quarantine and has lost activity levels significantly. I’m afraid they got in his shell and I see no planaria treatment that won’t kill a nerite too. 
I’m still not 100% sure what these are. I added fenbendazole to the tank and paracleanse. I put a tiny amount of paracleanse in quarantine. I feel awful because I thought they were harmless worms. Bait trap yielded nothing. Some folks would just say “you’re over feeding” but I have not fed the cherries. I fed very little for the Amanos. I’m afraid the worms got to them. The swarm the nerite but not the ramshorn. Ugh. 
Any advice? Can anyone ID them for sure?? How can I save the Nerite. I have betta on the way and I’m scared I’ll have to destroy my tank just as it was looking so good. Close up photo is very small IAL leaf. 
cant upload the video due to size. 

[Cory]

My advice is to always, step back and make sure we aren't jumping to conclusion. When a person sees something new, they assume it's the culprit. It could be. However I've found that a majority of the time, it's a water parameter issue with snails  instead of whatever these creatures are. What is your current pH, and hardness testing at? I am for at least 7.2 when it comes to snails and a moderate hardness. 

They don't look like planeria to me, but also don't look like leeches, I'm not sure what they are. They have an equal chance of being beneficial as they do detrimental in my opinion. 

[Tre]

I felt the same way and wanted to leave them be. My PH tends to be easily above 7. This tank is 7.8 for PH. 
I only and biomedia in a hang on back to help the bacteria cloud from cycling go away. The Amanos loves it. 
I have video of these things going after the Nerite. 
Ammonia has been zero. I barely ever see nitrites now. Been at zero. Nitrates vary as I add my East green but I keep well under 20. GH about 10 degrees and KH is 5 degrees. Our water is pretty darn hard and have to filter. Philly/jersey. 
Temp in house is 74 with air on. Heater set to 75....rarely kicks on. 
Fluval nano light set at 45% most of the day. Night 8pm goes blue and off at 10pm. Picture from video of worms swarming to nerite  

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Tre

[Cory]

Has the General cure had any effect yet?

[Tre]

Not yet...2 days.  Shrimp and ramshorns seem fine.  Nerite in quarantine not moving but out of shell once in a while.....This is a new one for me...

[Tre]

This image sent by one person replying freaked me because the P. morgani looks similar....no triangle head like I would be used to seeing.  See soil ecology did  pay off!

and just to clarify....I had seen them but they were harmless.  Didn't see any issue.  In the picture of the Nerite...that is not debris in the substrate....those are swarming worms.  Still on my glass...been using air tube to vac them off....

Edited July 15, 2020 by Tre

[Lizzie Block]

Would probably take a worm scientist to tell with 100% certainty what type that is, but I can personally relate! I had a massive amount of what I determined to be Rhabdocoela flatworms in my cherry shrimp tank once and these look exactly like mine did. Not due to overfeeding either because I was only feeding that tank like once a week. I'd be really shocked if you have planaria because I've ALSO had those in my tanks unfortunately. They were unmistakable as they had the distinctive triangle-shaped heads and grew quite large after a few weeks. I could spot them from across the room. Ew! 

Anyway, I eventually put a betta in the tank with the Rhabdocoela worms and they disappeared within about a week, I'm convinced he may have made a snack out of them lol 🤷🏼 or perhaps it was a coincidence. Either way, I never found any chemical or mechanical method of removing the Rhabdocoela worms entirely, so I just left them be and they disappeared after awhile. There is a whole micro ecosystem living in our tanks and sometimes unexpected visitors are just part of the process. 🙂

P. S. please don't tear your tank apart, your aquascape is beautiful and your plants look great!! 

[Wmarian]

Just to check: snail was alive when swarm spotted and it was rescued? My worm situation (rhabdocoela, I think) swarm anything dead...so at first I thought they were killing things... they swarmed a new Nerite in my tank that I think actually died in transit. And later when I crushed a pond snail they swarmed over. But as far as I can tell they ignore living pond snails, Shrimp etc.

I would add that, from my observation, locomotion is different for types of worms: planaria always seem to be smoothly gliding and racing to somewhere; rhabdocoela smoothly glide but at a much more leisurely/meandering pace; detritus worms tend to want to float around and just hangout, and when on glass seem to have inch worm movement (head reaching out, then pulling body behind)

If you become sure that these are killer/damaging, I suggest trying a worm or planaria trap. Some you tube videos show how to diy them, but also can be purchased.

[Wmarian]

Whoops...on re read I see that you tried a bait trap already. What bait did you try?

[Tre]

Tried chicken, shrimp food, and algae wafers. 2 different nights. Fish food was first. Thought meat and veggie would attract either way. Upped it to chicken and no luck. 

[Tre]

Thank you Lizzie for your kind words! I was so happy with my first well planted tank. I always had issues with plants but with today’s LEDs. Woot! Loving it!

The snail was definitely alive. They arrived from a hobbyist breeder who raised the cherrys. On the glass the swarmed him and he went to the bottom. Now he’s so terribly lethargic, I’m afraid I’ll lose him. His ramshorn companion is perfectly fine. 
My son’s tank has a betta and is unaffected.....or has a betta. lol I have a candy koi halfmoon Plakat on the way and I guess he’ll be a worm hunter. He’s a Plakat so I’m worried he’ll be more of a hunter but I’ll hope he’s more like my son’s. 
My son got me back into the hobby after a stent away. I’ve always loved trying to let the ecosystem handle itself. Am I just not destined for my own nerites???

Here’s worm killer....who I’m waiting to be shipped. 
Now this is a commercial for why Co-op needs ludwigia repens....wouldn’t have had to order plants elsewhere for the tank....

[Lizzie Block]

Lol @Tre he's a beauty! I love how his one eye is blue - so unique. Honestly, I don't have much experience with snail disease, but I have definitely lost a few nerites at random times for various reasons. One being my temperature was too cold, but they do awesome in the betta tank since it's warm and they seem more active. So I think they definitely prefer warmer temperatures, upper 70's for sure. 

Ramshorns are ridiculously hardy haha I love them the most for that reason. My tanks are flooded with them, so not surprised yours is strong and healthy. They're amazing algae eaters too.

As for the Ludwigia... hm. Good question, Ludwigia species are well known for being great low tech, low maintenance plants. I don't have a reason for you as to why we wouldn't have them at the Co-Op, but hopefully I can find out. I'd love to see some in stock! 🌿 Keep me updated on the betta and best of luck! 🐌

[Tre]

Snail is still hanging in. He does not look “well”. Very slow. Not active. Stays on the bottom. Sometimes I find him flipped over. 
No idea what I can do for him. Since he is a Nerite that comes from brackish, I’ve added salt to his hospital home. 
No changes in my parameters. Not sure if either drug did anything to the worms. Had added the second dose of paracleanse yesterday morning. Changing water tomorrow in the tank. Nerite will stay on his own but I’m not sure what more to do for him. Any ideas?

[Wmarian]

 Am sorry to hear it is still lethargic.  Salt sounds like a great idea! (Be careful with your plants).

Here are just some brainstorming suggestions that perhaps you have already considered?

Maricyn, an antibiotic, has never had problems with snails or inverts for me (or for Cory, according to his live streams). Maybe as a last resort, you might consider giving it a try, in case it has injuries that aren't healing?

Also, the tank looks very clean, just checking you are feeding blanched zucchini or algae wafers? My nerite that I used to have preferred the skin side :) also, if you have  driftwood or rocks from other tanks.with algae on them, you might bring them over for a guest appearance?

And I do read that ph is something to watch, cause they go lethargic.

And add wonder shell or something to help with gh.

Since  I moved and set up new tanks  I haven't had luck with nerites.. from arrival they either die immediately or do this long decline, so I really sympathize. 

[Tre]

Thanks so much W.  He's in a hang on atm with some excess guppy grass.  I'll be moving him to an extra large critter keeper with some Aquarium Coop mixed wanna be Java moss.  lol  

I've tried wafers which I know nerites are not huge on and other veg.  My shrimp tank has tons of biofilm but I don't want any of that water in with him.  I'm going to put an IAL in and crushed coral pieces.  I put in veggies but he is BARELY moving....won't climb sides or anything.  I do want to "experiment" with the worms after I water change my tank.  I'm going to get what I can of them in containers....I'll be adding Salt to one, flubendazole to another, paracleanse, and the last the NO Planaria Beni Bachi....or other Nihon (Japanese) brand.....(when you realize your Japanese aquatic vocab is not up to par when that package arrives)  I'm annoyed I don't have a microscope in the house.....my ancient one must be at my in laws.....

[Tre]

Ok. Nerite is still alive but either sleeping or on the doorstep. Ugh. 
here’s his quarantine setup. A bit of salt. Some moss from kid’s tank. Crushed coral. Bacteria added and of course declorinater. Time to water change my tank. ..... House at 74. Excessive heat outside. Heter coming Monday if I need for him. Luxury quarantine....

[Wmarian]

Okay. Luxury quarantine is right. As an ocean beast, I would think 74 would be good for him.

[Cory]

6 hours ago, Tre said:

Ok. Nerite is still alive but either sleeping or on the doorstep. Ugh. 
here’s his quarantine setup. A bit of salt. Some moss from kid’s tank. Crushed coral. Bacteria added and of course declorinater. Time to water change my tank. ..... House at 74. Excessive heat outside. Heter coming Monday if I need for him. Luxury quarantine....

Oh interesting, if you took out the plants you could do decent levels of salt for that nerite snail since they go brackish, I bet the invaders wouldn't tolerate much salt.

[Tre]

Poor Nerite passed yesterday morning. He seemed to enjoy the salt and I thought he might pull through but alas he did not. I’m not seeing worms so my chance to test medications through various containers is not going to happen. 
Tank is otherwise ok. Newest resident is in. Thank you for your help!