Sad Bowl, the redux

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Here is the journal on this bowl for reference 

Anyway I’m officially moving on and was wondering if anyone can critique my ideas for substrate and planting for this bowl.

I’m going to use some Bags of lava rock to create height in the back of the bowl. I think it will help with the optics to create perspective. I was going to put down some laterite and was going to use a couple cups of substrate from a tank that’s doing well with Fluval Stratum on top. I’ll use my local obsidian for hardscape.

Plants - crypts crypts and more crypts with some others thrown in. I’ve grabbed some red tiger spiralis for background and may use balansae as well; mid ground crypt wendtii red, bronze and green; mid ground crypt nurii rosen maden; crypt parva for the foreground; have been debating about using some different colors of cabomba I have to fill in spots and bring some different color and texture to the crypts; I also have some ludwigia a green form that I think will be nice and give some height and fill in as well. I have some baby’s tears which might also give a different level of height texture  etc. the goal is to creat a beautiful planted tank with lots of surface area for shrimps - about 20 blue dream shrimp these are in the pics I’ve got them already in another setup. 

[Sane_sage]

That is beautiful! 🙂 and I love the shrimp!🧡

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Well after several hours of work I’ve finished the bowl for now. It definitely has the height I wanted to get, I really love the character of the obsidian, and although it was a bit of a pain to plant in the Fluval Stratum worked well once I got back into the swing of it. 
Currently the inhabitants are some rams horns, a pond snail or 2 and at least one planaria. Enjoy it while you can planaria- there’s a couple hungry whiteclouds with a fever and the only cure is more planaria! 
I’m not the best photographer but here’s a few pics. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Well how things change so all of the plants except my rotala melted back. Some of the dwarf baby tears have done well but it was a pretty horrible situation to watch the $$$ and plants melt. Some survivors but I think that the aquasoil really dropped an ammonia bomb and they just couldn’t hang. I tried floating plants and some guppy grass which seemed to help. 

Ive watched my parameters and seen new growth from The rotala and the survivors included my pink flamingo crypt woohoo! So I went ahead and ordered some plants from a guy I met on another forum who cuts me ridiculous deals. Anyway I’m super excited. Here’s the list: linderia india variegated, crypt nurii Rosen maiden, crypt tropica and wendtii green and red, ludwigia repens x arcuata, Ludwigia pink, ludwigia skeleton red. 

Planting went well, I always wish stratum was more gripping on the plants and roots but what can you do? I might combo it with some black gravel next time. Here’s some pics. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Does anyone have suggestions on how to move things along in this bowl setup? I continue to do water changes and see the bowl get hazy within 24 hours. The thick white bubbles form on the surface starting around the sponge filter and then they just continue to form until I water change. I get a 12 hour or so reprieve from the bubbles after a water change and the process happens again. Am I just being impatient? It’s been a month so maybe this is just going to take another month or so to cycle and season up. Maybe I could use some purigen behind the sponge it would help aesthetically but wouldn’t really make a difference with the bowls biome. I was thinking about putting some Malaysian Trumpet Snails in to turn over the substrate and maybe see if that helps. 

[Nanotanks]

Have you tried a round of Maracyn (Erythromycin)?

Edited June 13, 2021 by Nanotanks

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@NanotanksThis is an interesting idea. Overgrowth of bacteria? Could be. I’d worry about the affect on all these plants I just bought. I’d hate to induce another melt on these plants that haven’t adapted yet. Definitely an option. 

[Nanotanks]

Those plants may have been carrying a bacteria that got in your water and found its missing love, and started making sexy time. You could always get a second bowl, take a sample of the top half where the water is forming the dense, frothy bubbles, add it to what you filled the tank with, and then drop a half dose of antibiotics in, and see if it clears up. If it does, you could try on your bowl.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Nanotanks

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Nanotanksthanks for that idea 💡! 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Nanotanksdo you think I could get away with hydrogen peroxide instead of erythromycin? It’s great for blue green bacteria and just think it would not be as hard on all these plants I’ve just bought. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Well I finally had a few moments and I treated the tank with 1.5 MLS of hydrogen peroxide per 4.5 L of tank water (Marks Shrimp Tanks was the source) as I really wanted to preserve the plants if I could and avoid bombing it with Maracyn. I noted a significant difference in the clarity of the water. The bubbles usually come right back but other than some small and more clear than whitish ones right above the sponge this is improved as well. The next 24 hours will tell the tale. I’ll post pics tomorrow.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Here’s some update pics - water remains clearer, saw some melt from the crypts but I have more coming and still have a lot of bubble on the surface. I’m wondering if I baffle the output from the sponge if that could help. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Today it’s staying fairly clear. I remembered a trick that LRB uses with lids of take home food containers to baffle the bubbles a little bit and I’ve done that as well. The parameters based on coop test strips are right on the money. I’m hopeful that with another water change we’ll keep the water clarity.

[wtrch20]

Bowls are fun and yours looks great.  But in such a small bowl, especially without a ton of livestock, that sponge filter seems out of place aesthetically.  I'm using a tiny sponge filter (search for B085GJLT3L as an overpriced example on Amazon) in my 3 gallon bowl that has cherry shrimp in it.  But in a planted bowl (or fish tank) with low bioload, consider skipping the filter and using just an airstone just for water movement and surface agitation.  I'd also add an air valve to control the bubbles if your air pump is too powerful for the little bowl.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@water20The bowl is 11 gallons. Plan is shrimp only. I have different size sponges for different setups. Certainly could consider a smaller one. Stocking is still a ways off. It’s been setup for exactly a month. I like the sponge because of the amount of biofilm and microfana that accumulate will help the shrimps and shrimplets vs no filter relying on plants and the scape. Both have advantages and disadvantages. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Beardedbillygoat1975

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Well I’m cloudy again. I’m thinking of two ideas going forward. 1) Just let it ride stop water changes and see if it goes clear or 2) dose with some Maracyn at the blue green algae dosing range and see what happens. I’m debating on doing a black out as well. Thoughts? 
I’ve also gone ahead and switched the sponge to a smaller one and it’s got a check valve and I’ve turned it down to minimize the number of bubbles. The top no longer is covered with thick white bubbles.  

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Pulled the trigger on Maracyn for the cloudy bowl. I’m 3 out of 5 doses in. Then I’m planning a water change and then dose it with some beneficial bacteria then wait. Targeting September or so before putting shrimp in. I did the Maracyn because I threw some rams horn snails In to the bowl and they died after 3 days. There’s got to be something in there that need me to be knocked out or I’ll have to start from the beginning. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Your bowl seems cursed my friend. I had a 5 gallon tank like that and I just tossed it. Would be a shame if that had to happen though, the bowl is awfully pretty. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@xXInkedPhoenixXagreed. I’m grasping at straws to try to save it. I’d do a bleach bath with the plants, soak the bowl in bleach, then bake the substrate and rocks in the oven and start over. What a shame that would be?!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Been watching you struggle with this bowl since it's first "fail". Bleaching, it'd be yet more work but may be the only option ultimately. Such a bummer. You wouldn't think an 11g bowl would be such a problem. My 5g sure, but this makes no sense. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
Typos are lame

[Odd Duck]

I know you posted your parameters are all normal, but are you testing ammonia, too?  Persistent bubbles make me think of excess proteins in the water (nitrogenous wastes).  If you have ongoing ammonia release, your filter/plants may be converting it quickly enough to cause minimal spikes, but it may be just enough to cause the foam (thinking the air is acting like a protein skimmer does).  There are also potentially other proteins that may not light up your tests but could cause, or at least add to, the foaming.

Obviously there are 2 approaches.  Leave it be as much as possible or do more frequent, larger water changes.  Seems like there are proteins that need removed, so I would tend to do more water changes.

Don’t give up yet.  Seems like you should be on the downhill side.  Hang in there another couple weeks and see what things do.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Odd DuckNo ammonia. I’ve used coop test strips and api kit. I think that the bubbles are in part due to the way they hit the lip of the bowl. As soon as I baffled the bubbles they stopped. I do think there are proteins built up - the haze j. The water has to be something that can stay in suspension. I was water changing from 1 to 3 times a week from 25-50%. This is over the last 3 weeks. Did do a treatment with h2o2 which did clear things up for 3-5 days but then it came back. My idea is finish the Maracyn and give it a month of regular water changes and see what happens. 
@xXInkedPhoenixXyep typos are lame and I’ll see what happens in the next month and then make the decision on the bowls future. 

[NanoNano]

In late and having some problems following where you're at as of now.  Are you still having a problem with cyanobacteria?

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@NanoNano I was continuing -despite using some h2o2 treatments- to have a haze in the water of my bowl. I decided to treat with Maracyn to see if that would work. I treated for 5 doses and I’ll be water changing today and then I’ll wait a month before any further treatments to decide on next steps. If the haze comes back I’ll just tear it down and start over.