R Budds

Thanks, at first I didn't really care for it but it's grown on me. The SafeTSorb does have a nice varied texture and color.

I'll have to look into that, thanks.

I see two not on the list for pipe measurements: ID (inside diameter) and OD (outside diameter).

Hi Jeff, Thanks for your interest. I tried keeping fish in the early 2000s, with terrible results so my tanks went into the basement for a long time. I got them back out last November to try again. I did what seems to be the normal thing nowadays, which was to put the substrate directly on the glass. I added plants and they struggled and some died, but my nitrates kept going up (my tap water is 40-50ppm nitrates already). At times they went over 100ppm even with regular water changes. The plants just were not cutting it. Even duckweed died off in it, so I needed to try something else. Now my plants and animals are doing better then ever and the nitrates are completely gone. I do add a little fertilizer sometimes, usually a half dose. I monitor the TDS to determine when I need to change a little water. The lids are tight so I get very little evaporation. Eventually I plan to setup my 29 tall with a denitrifying filter and no real plants, for goldfish, and see how it works without them.

Welcome GoldyGirl, I can't wait to see some nice pictures of those patio pots. I'm not sure about the arrangement of this forum. For now I am going to post here. I did post under the "experiments" section about my 1 gallon low maintenance fry jar. When I actually start my new 20 long I will probably start a new thread for it, to clean it up and make it more concise. Don't worry about bombarding my posts, you may regret it when I give you a long winded writeup though (see above) lol.

I'm glad to see you are moving forward with it Darkskies. I made my UGF with plastic fabric, or maybe it's called plastic canvas, either way it's available at craft stores. Below is a picture of the UGF I made for my new 20 long. It's basically just a shallow upside-down box. I used hotglue to make the corners, but I may reinforce the seams with silicone. I haven't added the uplift tube to this UGF yet. To do that just cut a hole that the tube can fit into and silicone it in place and allow it to setup, just make sure the tube doesn't fall down to the bottom, it should be just under the top plate. I will also add standoffs under the plenum to hold it up in the middle. I have used foam blocks and strips of the plastic fabric glued to the bottom and they both seem to work well. Below is another plenum I made, the tube connects in the back, but it still pulls water from the plenum. The reason I am showing this picture is the layer of glue on the top plate coming down and to the right from the tube. I did this to create a funnel effect so it draws more water from beyond the tube rather than just the water directly next to it. I did the same with my other ones, but forgot to take a picture. A check valve is good to use, but you'll also need an adjustable valve to turn it down. For my 5.5 gallon I use a gang valve with 2 valves. One valve is for the uplift tube (turned way down) the other valve is to vent the air, and the outlet of the valve (which would normally feed another valve) goes to the airstone. I did this (venting to air) to not bog the air pump down. This is the valve I use for my 5.5. From left to right it's: air from pump, 1st valve is bleed off (just an open tube to the air adjust this to get the airstone pressure right), 2nd valve is the air to the uplift tube, and then the airstone tube (this tube would normally feed another valve or be plugged up, because it's airflow going straight thru the valve body). The valves are a bit of a balancing act. A short uplift tube should be okay, it's what Dr Novak recommends, you just won't be able to see the flow. I would just turn it way down for a tiny amount of bubbles. Cleaning the SafeTSorb is a mess. It's quite dusty. I use a metal strainer that I got from the Dollar General for $3. Just rinse and rinse and then rinse some more, any that rises when you fill the tank should quickly settle. I also use a standard in-tank filter (see gifs from earlier posts) that would help clear it up too. Yes please keep me updated and if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.

Eight day update. I have seen the first real change in the nitrogen cycle. The ammonia is at zero and the nitrites are nearly zero and the nitrates have dropped to 10ppm. The water has been clear the whole time. Here are a few babies. The curve of the glass and their size makes it hard to get them in focus. Our females look like they are about to pop, so we should have more babies soon.

Don't get me wrong I have a lot respect for his work but sometimes he stereotypes himself with his rants.

For some reason I pictured a group of grump old men yelling at clouds led by Dr Novak when I read that.

Yes. Some people use foam board insulation (the thick foam used in house construction, it comes in various thicknesses) for backgrounds and fake rocks. Also Greatstuff can be used, it's in a can and expands when you spray it; it's good for locking rocks together. I use EPP foam. It's the soft stuff that computers are packed in, but I buy the sheets from model airplane suppliers. I use it for surface dividers for duckweed, I cut it a little long and bend it a little to put it across the top, this way it holds itself in place. Here is one in my 20 gallon. I slide it one way or the other to push that section of duckweed together and scoop it out, then slide it back. I don't know of anyone else using EPP, so use at your own discretion. The main things are that it's a closed cell foam (that won't absorb water) and that's its free of contamination.

I've been using diy uplift tubes (and UGFs) that go just above the water surface to monitor the flow. I'm not sure exactly how much is going thru it, but I get a good idea. This uplift tube is in a 1 gallon jar I setup with a small UGF, for baby guppies.

That's why I've started calling it denitrifying filtration, anoxic seems to trigger a lot of people and illicit a lot of disingenuous responses (not so much here as on YouTube). I had no idea people were bringing Cory's wife and such into it, that's terrible and counterproductive. My intent is to show people how I've achieved success using the system and people can use or disregard the knowledge. To each their own.

Seven day update. All 7 babies are doing well. Here's a couple of them. The nitrites have dropped a little and the nitrates are around 30ppm.

Hi Minanora thanks for the question. Anoxic is a bit confusing so I've been calling it denitrifying lately. I have 3 tanks with this setup that I will be referring to: a 20 gallon long (set up in early January), a ten gallon with a different uplift tube/air stone arrangement (set up in early February), and a 5.5 gallon which is looking the best of all 3 (set up March 15th). For clarity I will be referring to airflow on a 1 to 10 scale, with 1 being the value just cracked open and 10 being full flow from a normal air pump for the tank, thru the stone; and for the uplift tube 1 is just enough to lift out the smallest amount of water and 10 being a flow as from a water pump for that sized tank (shooting a couple of inches above the tube, way too much but just to use as a baseline) Here are a few gifs showing the air and water flow in the 5.5 gallon tank; this tank is stable at 0 nitrates and the TDS is around 450ppm and minimal water changes. It has 3 guppies, 6 green corys, and 2 mystery snails. The upper gif shows the air stone in the left corner and it is set fairly low 2.5/10, the in-tank filter adds some agitation too. The lower gif shows the in-tank filter and plenum uplift tube, the tube is at the center of the tank, it's around 3/10. In the 2 gifs you can see a strip of filter cloth at the in-tank filter's outlet. I change that out as needed, usually about every 5 to 7 days. Here is a picture of the 5.5, the picture is not too clear though. Now I will talk about the 10 gallon. It has 3 dwarf crayfish (one died last week) and a betta. Below is the air stone flow, it's a small air stone, and it's fairly high 7/10. (sorry for the thermometer in the way). This tank has the plenum uplift tube in the corner as well, thats the white tube on the right of the airline. This airflow moves quite a bit of water across the surface which then hits the foam divider (the white strip coming across from the upper right corner) this pushes the flow down into the plants. The airflow inside the plenum uplift tube is lower (about 1.5/10) in this tank compared to the 5.5 shown above; however I think the surface flow helps pull it out of the tube, or maybe it impedes it, either way this tank has been the slowest to denitrify; it could be a light bioload. The 10 gallon's lid is sealed tight and I only add about a cup of water every other week to it since I set it up, with one 25% water change in the first 2 weeks. The TDS is at 710ppm, it's usually around 650 to 680, I added a half dose of fertilizer so it's around what I expected. I may do a light water change soon. Here is the airstone in the 20 long. It's hard to see but it's around 3/10 I would say, so it's pretty low. It's in the corner behind the in-tank filter. The uplift tube is in the center. It's flow is about 3/10, similar to the 5.5 gallon, so basically 4x slower turnover of the tank relative to the 5.5.

I just wanted to post some pictures of one of our Julii corys sitting on some bacopa. I've never seen one of them do this before.

No problem, I want others to have success with this method too. My only reason for not following Dr Novak's advice on the tube length is because you can't really tell how much water is flowing with a short tube that's underwater, but with it coming out of the water you can actually see the flow and adjust it. Since I now know about how many bubbles it takes to get the right flow (with the 3/8 inch ID tube I am using) I could make one with a short tube, but this way works for me so I will probably stick with it. I didn't see him mention the groundcover cloth and sand. The main reason I avoided it was a video a saw by Serpa Design. He showed how certain brands of groundcover cloth is almost impermeable, so he avoided using it in his terrariums' false bottoms. One of my concerns is that sand may not have the properties that the clay has to create the right conditions. No, I believe you still need some form of iron to get it going. I used the liquid iron fertilizer in my first denitrifying tank and it took 2 months to take effect. When I started my 5.5 gallon (after the nitrates had started dropping in my first tank) I added some substrate from that nearly established tank and that's why it cycled so fast, i didn't add the iron just to see what would happen. According to Dr Novak the iron is just to feed the bacteria at first. I was not familiar with the seachem denitrate so I thought it was a resin based nitrate scrubbing additive of some sort. It may help, and I know he uses various bioballs under some of his UGFs, but I wanted an open plenum to avoid any dead spots. I think unimpeded flow, especially at this low flow rate, is more important than a little more surface area. I have found that the 2 to 3 inches of SafeTSorb is enough surface. I would just try to get one working with the SafeTSorb and iron on the UGF, then experiment with sand or other substrates using the bacteria from the established SafeTSorb setup. The seeded substrate I put in my 5.5 gallon (from the established 20 long) was just a few scoops in the little pot on the right side of the 5.5, you can see it in the pictures I posted. You could do something similar, or use a bag to hold the SafeTSorb so it doesn't mix with your sand. I may do a more detailed writeup with another 20 long I am setting up. Dr Novak is long-winded and it took a while to pick out the relevant parts. I think he means well, but just gets mad about people denouncing his work without actually testing it. I hope this makes sense, don't hesitate to ask any more questions you may have.

Four day update. The 7 guppies are all eating well and are active. No more have been born. Here are the test strips from this one gallon tank (lower) and the 5.5 they were born in (upper). The nitrates are still around 40ppm, and the nitrites have gone up to about1ppm. The 5.5 gallon remains at zero for both. The pH has stabilized around 6.8 for both, with low KH and quite high GH.The cycle has started without any bloom yet. This is the ammonia test. It's just above zero, around 0.25ppm. Here is one of the babies. It's hard to get a good picture of them. I am going to do a 25-30% water change and add water from the 5.5 gallon.

Thanks for the questions Darkskies. I didn't clarify the uplift tube too well. It runs from the plenum to the surface. Here are some pictures of my first such setup. The tube is about a half inch below (into) the plenum and glued to the plenum. Here's at the surface in my 20 long (my first denitrifying tank), it has some algae growing in the tube. I just used a bare airline going almost to the bottom of the uplift tube with no stone and turned it down to a little more than a trickle using an air valve to control the bubbles. An air stone wouldn't fit into this tube (3/8inch ID), perhaps regular UGF plates use bigger tubes. I ran the uplift tube all the way out of the water to monitor the flow. This is under the surface. This is the tube going into the substrate down to the plenum plate. The tube pulls water only up and out of the plenum. I don't know anything about seachem denitrate so I couldn't recommend it or not; I will only say that it may be counterproductive because it's removing the nitrates so the bacteria you want to grow is potentially starved. Once you establish the denitrifying bacteria they will denitrify for you. A quarter inch of fluorite red may be a bit too much for a 5.5. I would do a light, but nearly full layer, after about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of the first layer (near the bottom, but not directly on the UGF plate). I used a sprinkle (3 tablespoons) of SafeTSorb soaked in iron fertilizer in the substrate of my first tank, it took 2 months to drop the nitrates. I didn't use any iron enrichment in my 5.5 gallon and it dropped the nitrates from around 100ppm to zero in 6 days, with just a small amount of substrate from my established tank to get it going. I don't know the science so I defer to Dr Novak, and he always says kitty litter. I bought 3 bags and they were all mush after washing. I think he does mention SafeTSorb, but I know others have tried it with success and that's why I used it. Plus it's cheap, $8 for a 40lb bag at tractor supply or similar stores. It has something to do with the ion charges of the water and the clay and how it pulls the bad charges out, so I think at least some SafeTSorb (or equivalent) is needed. As for sand, I don't think that will work for you as it will get pulled down thru the UGF grating, unless it had very fine holes, you want low flow but this may block most or all flow. I had wanted sand too for my corys to dig in but they love jamming their faces into the SafeTSorb. It's lighter weight than gravel and they move it around easily. It is dark though. I would recommend just a bit of fluorite red, the SafeTSorb, and low flow. Once you have established the bacteria you can transfer them easily into a more planned out arrangement and/or experiment. I think my 5.5 and 20 gallon tanks could both use smaller UGF filters, maybe as small as 1/3 of the tank bottom, and still drop the nitrates down; this could allow you to have the UGF/SafeTSorb at the back and the sand at the front. I'm not sure if the filter could establish itself at this smaller size though, but it is something I have considered. I am just posting a picture of my 5.5 today compared to last week; it has 2 new mystery snails. The wisteria needs to be trimmed. The nitrates are still at zero.

Thanks Patrick, I turned it so the tube is at the 10 o'clock position and it almost disappears. I wanted some stuff for them to interact with in the tank, it doesn't have to be too sterile for them to be safe, imo, plus it looks better with the plants and wood.

I think for the next one I can connect the parts at key points and then use silicone to glue and seal it. After it has cured, having smoothed the inside and made sure the tube is clear, I can attach the bottom with a few stitches since it's less critical. I think silicone will stick to the parts. I just found another guppy so now it's up to 7. I also added a tablespoon or so of substrate, plus a few ounces of water in the transfer, from their birth tank. I'm fascinated to see how the cycle will play out in this tiny tank. I probably should have put a betta in there for a week, I'll just have to keep a close eye on the parameters. They feed well in here too. I put just a few grains at a time of First Bites and the surface agitation pushes them down and a lot are eaten.

That is a concern. I have been using it for a while without any deterioration, it does seem safe as far as leaching (which is my main concern), but you're right about the bonds breaking. I'll checkout the link, thanks. I'll have to pickup some light or medium fishing line for my next project.

Lol I just finished The Hobbit audio book last night as I finalized this project. Mine was just an old pickle jar. My daughter loves pickles and my dad got her this big jar one year for Christmas and the empty jar was just hanging around. It didn't seem necessary to get rid of it. I was wondering where to get more too.

Please do. I'm still trying to figure out a lid, the original one was steel and rusted up. Probably just a clear circle. Here are the 6 babies. The gif may take a moment to buffer.

I like your shelf and light setup. I tried my own diy sponge filter but the curve at the top of the jar kept pushing it to the center amd it was in the way. The natural curve of the tube really helps it sit back and out of the way. I hope you can work something out using this idea.

I am going to try to turn a one gallon pickle jar into a low maintenance permanent guppy growout nursery. Because of this I am not going to have any rooting plants. The anubias, java fern, and chunk of driftwood can be easily removed to get guppies out that have grown to the next stage. The screen nursery was a good temporary solution but it takes up too much space in the 5.5 gallon (upper right of the tank). Below is the pickle jar with a simple undergravel filter. The vinyl uplift tube has a bend that contours to the bottle fairly well. The bottom part of the filter is just a puck shape made out of plastic fabric (7 squares per inch) that's hot glued together. The uplift tube is cut on an angle and hot glued to the back of the puck. It's smaller than it looks, it's just small enough to fit through the neck of the jar. I made sure it was on the bottom and put the substrate over and around it. I put down a 3 inch deep bed of SafeTSorb. Above is the flow of the uplift tube. The lamp is a Tetra brand clip on USB led light. You can see a couple of the little guppies above. I filled it with tap water and half a cup full from the 5.5 gallon they were born in. Here are some pictures of the tube glued to the puck. I covered part of the upper plate, and the back part on either side of the uplift tube, with hot glue to make a funnel effect. An important note. It's not pictured in a noticeable way, but there is a bottom plate as well to keep the substrate out of the puck, since it doesn't sit perfectly as it would in a regular tank. The numbers are usual for our tap water except the pH is a little lower than before. These are the numbers after putting in the fish: TDS 430, GH 200+, KH 40, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 40, and pH around 6.2 (it's usually 6.5 to 6.8). I'm not sure what their load on the tank is, but they grow fast and a lot of their food goes past them. Hopefully it works as well as my other tanks with similar filter systems. If it does work as well there should be virtually no maintenance required.