Rough morning, fish loss overnight

[Retrophyllum_minus]

Welp. It happened. I don't know how, or why, but all of my imperial lapis tetras in my 40 gallon died overnight. Nothing else. Every parameter is fine. No external signs of disease. No visible internal parasites. 
 

Not exactly sure where to go from here. I don't want to introduce anything new to the tank for a while, obviously, and I'm going to keep a close eye on it and all the other fish, but they all seem fine and disease free. 
 

As I said, Parameters were just fine when I checked them this morning after pulling the dead fish out. I did a water change anyway to be safe but ammonia was 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20ish, pH was normal for the tank, TDS was good. I am getting a dissolved oxygen meter which should arrive soon, but I can't imagine that's an issue with two sponge filters and an HOB going. I can't think of anything external like a chemical or soap or anything that could have gotten into the tank. I'm very careful about that. 
 

Sigh. I know these things happen, but what I am struggling with is not knowing why. If I saw an ammonia spike that I had missed, or if I saw signs of disease I'd be a bit less upset because then I'd know what happened and what to do. 

[Darth Nerm]

Oh no!!! I’m sorry that happened. That is the worst. I’ve had that happen to me once or twice too, specifically with corydoras. 😭

I hope everything else stays alive for you!

[Tlindsey]

On 10/21/2024 at 12:24 PM, Retrophyllum_minus said:

Welp. It happened. I don't know how, or why, but all of my imperial lapis tetras in my 40 gallon died overnight. Nothing else. Every parameter is fine. No external signs of disease. No visible internal parasites. 
 

Not exactly sure where to go from here. I don't want to introduce anything new to the tank for a while, obviously, and I'm going to keep a close eye on it and all the other fish, but they all seem fine and disease free. 
 

As I said, Parameters were just fine when I checked them this morning after pulling the dead fish out. I did a water change anyway to be safe but ammonia was 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20ish, pH was normal for the tank, TDS was good. I am getting a dissolved oxygen meter which should arrive soon, but I can't imagine that's an issue with two sponge filters and an HOB going. I can't think of anything external like a chemical or soap or anything that could have gotten into the tank. I'm very careful about that. 
 

Sigh. I know these things happen, but what I am struggling with is not knowing why. If I saw an ammonia spike that I had missed, or if I saw signs of disease I'd be a bit less upset because then I'd know what happened and what to do. 

Sorry for your loss. 

[Retrophyllum_minus]

On 10/21/2024 at 12:33 PM, Darth Nerm said:

Oh no!!! I’m sorry that happened. That is the worst. I’ve had that happen to me once or twice too, specifically with corydoras. 😭

I hope everything else stays alive for you!

Thanks. Yeah I am a bit unsure what could have happened. They've been fine in the tank for over a month, nothing new has been added super recently, and I am just wondering if it's some disease I am not familiar with and didn't see signs for. May see if there's a good medicine I can treat with to be safe. 

On 10/21/2024 at 12:34 PM, Tlindsey said:

Sorry for your loss. 

Thank you. It's a bummer. Those fish were really active and fun. 

[Colu]

On 10/21/2024 at 5:24 PM, Retrophyllum_minus said:

Welp. It happened. I don't know how, or why, but all of my imperial lapis tetras in my 40 gallon died overnight. Nothing else. Every parameter is fine. No external signs of disease. No visible internal parasites. 
 

Not exactly sure where to go from here. I don't want to introduce anything new to the tank for a while, obviously, and I'm going to keep a close eye on it and all the other fish, but they all seem fine and disease free. 
 

As I said, Parameters were just fine when I checked them this morning after pulling the dead fish out. I did a water change anyway to be safe but ammonia was 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20ish, pH was normal for the tank, TDS was good. I am getting a dissolved oxygen meter which should arrive soon, but I can't imagine that's an issue with two sponge filters and an HOB going. I can't think of anything external like a chemical or soap or anything that could have gotten into the tank. I'm very careful about that. 
 

Sigh. I know these things happen, but what I am struggling with is not knowing why. If I saw an ammonia spike that I had missed, or if I saw signs of disease I'd be a bit less upset because then I'd know what happened and what to do. 

 with mass mortality it's usually caused by a fast moving bacterial infection like columnaris or chemical contamination water companies can flush the pipes with high levels of chlorine at certain times of the year so you could have under dosed your water dechlorinator columnaris can kill within 24hr to 7days depending on the stain fish can die without displaying symptoms in some case it's odd that it only killed your lapis tetras

Edited 6 hours ago by Colu

[Retrophyllum_minus]

On 10/21/2024 at 1:35 PM, Colu said:

 with mass mortality it's usually caused by a fast moving bacterial infection like columnaris or chemical contamination water companies can flush the pipes with high levels of chlorine at certain times of the year so you could have under dosed your water dechlorinator columnaris can kill within 24hr to 7days depending on the stain fish can die without displaying symptoms in some case it's odd that it only kill your lapis tetras

No chlorine in my water. I have my own well. Maybe the tetras were more susceptible to whatever it was. Could be columnaris I've never dealt with that I'll look into it. 

[mynameisnobody]

Dude that stinks. These very discouraging moments is when we can learn the most so that (hopefully) it doesn’t get repeated. I would keep a close eye on everyone else. What are the temps? I think Dans from dans fish was saying that they like to be kept mid 70’s and very constant. They don’t experience fluctuation of temps in the wild. Probably a long shot, but it’s the first thing that came to mind. 

[Retrophyllum_minus]

On 10/21/2024 at 3:20 PM, mynameisnobody said:

Dude that stinks. These very discouraging moments is when we can learn the most so that (hopefully) it doesn’t get repeated. I would keep a close eye on everyone else. What are the temps? I think Dans from dans fish was saying that they like to be kept mid 70’s and very constant. They don’t experience fluctuation of temps in the wild. Probably a long shot, but it’s the first thing that came to mind. 

The tank is kept at 77/78 and remains consistent. They've been doing great for a while in there. Sigh. And it was just them. The Laetacara curviceps, Nannostomus mortanthaleri, Panda Corys, etc. are all doing fine still today. But every single Imperial Lapis Tetra died. They were super fun to watch schooling back and forth across the tank. Sigh. Maybe columnaris, and I'm going to look into that. It's a bummer but I'm just hoping I can sort out what happened so I can learn from it. 

[Retrophyllum_minus]

Well, I was out of the house for a bit today and just went in to check on everything. The pleco and some corys are dead now. Something is working its way through the tank. Columnaris or something else fast acting seems likely. I won't be able to get meds for columnaris until tomorrow to try that. I'll have to move snails to a quarantine tank first. Not so sure if I'll be able to save anyone or not but I'll definitely try. Again, parameters are all showing fine so it's definitely some fast acting disease to happen this quickly with no symptoms of sickness. 

[Darth Nerm]

On 10/21/2024 at 5:37 PM, Retrophyllum_minus said:

The pleco and some corys are dead now.

NOOOO!!! That is a bummer!! I'm so sorry!!! 

You're right, it probably is something like Columnaris. 

I'm sorry for your loss!

[Retrophyllum_minus]

On 10/21/2024 at 6:45 PM, Darth Nerm said:

NOOOO!!! That is a bummer!! I'm so sorry!!! 

You're right, it probably is something like Columnaris. 

I'm sorry for your loss!

Thank you. Ugh. I'm not sure I'll be able to stop it. At least my snails should be fine. I'll have to do what I can in the coming days assuming any fish are alive still tomorrow, and then learn about columnaris and whether it can survive in the tank without fish. Or what I need to do to ensure I can bring in more fish to the tank at some point. At least my other tanks are all separate from this one. In other words, I don't use the same water scoops or other tools in them. So there's no risk of contamination. Hoping I can still save some fish but if not I'll figure it out. 

[Darth Nerm]

Good luck!

[Retrophyllum_minus]

On 10/21/2024 at 7:09 PM, Darth Nerm said:

Good luck!

Thanks. I've been doing research. Looks like it won't hurt the snails but it can survive without fish in the water column. Assuming that is what it is. I don't know. Going to keep going down the rabbit hole of research on this and what I may want to do with this tank in the future. I mean, ideally I get some meds tomorrow and start those and don't lose all the fish. But worst case, I want to have a game plan. 

Edited 22 hours ago by Retrophyllum_minus

[Tony s]

Wow, so sorry for your loss. Especially since you may never know exactly what caused it. I'm very sure they had the best care. And it may be columnaris. It may have been an issue with a fritzing heater. Temporarily stuck. That's the worst thing. The uncertainty. If you think it's columnaris, you could always blitz the whole tank to clear it. Hopefully tomorrow is better and you can wrap your head around it. But it may take a bit, and that would be perfectly normal. Anyway, feel better. 

[nabokovfan87]

11 hours ago, Retrophyllum_minus said:

Sigh. I know these things happen, but what I am struggling with is not knowing why. If I saw an ammonia spike that I had missed, or if I saw signs of disease I'd be a bit less upset because then I'd know what happened and what to do. 

I had losses and it took me months of fish deaths to really narrow down any sort of logical reason.  I simply want to say I am very sorry for your struggle and we are all here to try to help figure out what's going on.  Our deepest condolences headed your way. 

 

[Retrophyllum_minus]

On 10/21/2024 at 11:25 PM, Tony s said:

Wow, so sorry for your loss. Especially since you may never know exactly what caused it. I'm very sure they had the best care. And it may be columnaris. It may have been an issue with a fritzing heater. Temporarily stuck. That's the worst thing. The uncertainty. If you think it's columnaris, you could always blitz the whole tank to clear it. Hopefully tomorrow is better and you can wrap your head around it. But it may take a bit, and that would be perfectly normal. Anyway, feel better. 

Thanks Tony. A fast spreading Columnaris or something similar is seeming quite likely. It's possible it is a heater issue but it seems unlikely. 
 

I'd like to remove and save the snails if I can before I blitz the tank. We'll see what it looks like in the morning and I'll decide from there what the plan will be. 
 

On 10/21/2024 at 11:58 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I had losses and it took me months of fish deaths to really narrow down any sort of logical reason.  I simply want to say I am very sorry for your struggle and we are all here to try to help figure out what's going on.  Our deepest condolences headed your way. 

 

Thank you. Yeah, it's a big bummer. I was getting happy with that tank and the fish. We'll see what's still alive in the morning and I'll go from there. Definitely a bummer but hopefully I can save some of the remaining fish. If not, well, then we'll see what next steps will be with that tank. 

[Daniel-Napier23]

On 10/21/2024 at 7:04 PM, Retrophyllum_minus said:

Thank you. Ugh. I'm not sure I'll be able to stop it. At least my snails should be fine. I'll have to do what I can in the coming days assuming any fish are alive still tomorrow, and then learn about columnaris and whether it can survive in the tank without fish. Or what I need to do to ensure I can bring in more fish to the tank at some point. At least my other tanks are all separate from this one. In other words, I don't use the same water scoops or other tools in them. So there's no risk of contamination. Hoping I can still save some fish but if not I'll figure it out. 

I have a similar problem with my 10 gallon guppy tank.  Something fast, came through and killed every adult guppy one by one in about a week but it didn't kill the baby guppies for some reason.  I tried to look up a video if baby guppies can still survive if you have columnaris? Without any success.  Anyway, whatever it was brutal. It picked out 2 or 3 per day. They all went to the top staying near the air bubble's, then after exhaustion they went to the bottom where they later died.  I didn't see any saddle back color on my fish except two female guppies that had a little bit of gray 🩶 patches near the dorsal fin.  None of the other's had white spots or discoloration.  It started with one red tailed female.  I grabbed her out with the net fast hoping she hadn't spread a disease.  Two days later, two more. It COULD have been columnaris but I don't have anyway to test for that.  Wish I could have helped you.   Good luck 🤞 

 

On 10/21/2024 at 7:04 PM, Retrophyllum_minus said:

Thank you. Ugh. I'm not sure I'll be able to stop it. At least my snails should be fine. I'll have to do what I can in the coming days assuming any fish are alive still tomorrow, and then learn about columnaris and whether it can survive in the tank without fish. Or what I need to do to ensure I can bring in more fish to the tank at some point. At least my other tanks are all separate from this one. In other words, I don't use the same water scoops or other tools in them. So there's no risk of contamination. Hoping I can still save some fish but if not I'll figure it out. 

I have a similar problem with my 10 gallon guppy tank.  Something fast, came through and killed every adult guppy one by one in about a week but it didn't kill the baby guppies for some reason.  I tried to look up a video if baby guppies can still survive if you have columnaris? Without any success.  Anyway, whatever it was brutal. It picked out 2 or 3 per day. They all went to the top staying near the air bubble's, then after exhaustion they went to the bottom where they later died.  I didn't see any saddle back color on my fish except two female guppies that had a little bit of gray 🩶 patches near the dorsal fin.  None of the other's had white spots or discoloration.  It started with one red tailed female.  I grabbed her out with the net fast hoping she hadn't spread a disease.  Two days later, two more. It COULD have been columnaris but I don't have anyway to test for that.  Wish I could have helped you.   Good luck 🤞 

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/21/2024 at 4:09 PM, Retrophyllum_minus said:

And it was just them. The Laetacara curviceps, Nannostomus mortanthaleri, Panda Corys, etc. are all doing fine still today

This is so puzzling. Why would it affect only one species? Sorry for your loss.

Edited 12 hours ago by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Colu]

Columnaris is a fast acting gram negative bacterial infections that spreads more quickly at higher temperatures over 75 and can kill in 24hr to 7 days depending on the strain the most effective treatment I have found is a combination of kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone following this treatment plan if you can't get kanaplex or jungal fungus I would treat with maracyn2  @Retrophyllum_minus

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/22/2024 at 7:14 AM, Colu said:

Columnaris is a fast acting gram negative bacterial infections that spreads more quickly at higher temperatures over 75 and can kill in 24hr to 7 days depending on the strain the most effective treatment I have found is a combination of kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone following this treatment plan if you can't get kanaplex or jungal fungus I would treat with maracyn2  @Retrophyllum_minus

This treatment was successful for my fish too @Retrophyllum_minus

[Retrophyllum_minus]

3 hours ago, Colu said:

Columnaris is a fast acting gram negative bacterial infections that spreads more quickly at higher temperatures over 75 and can kill in 24hr to 7 days depending on the strain the most effective treatment I have found is a combination of kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone following this treatment plan if you can't get kanaplex or jungal fungus I would treat with maracyn2  @Retrophyllum_minus

Should I go with Maracyn or Maracyn2? And are either/both of those snail safe or no? Need to know whether to move snails first. 
 

and thank you!!!

Edited 7 hours ago by Retrophyllum_minus

[Colu]

On 10/22/2024 at 3:24 PM, Retrophyllum_minus said:

Should I go with Maracyn or Maracyn2? And are either/both of those snail safe or no? Need to know whether to move snails first. 
 

and thank you!!!

You want maracyn2 it's shrimp and snails safe and treats gram negative bacterial infections you will need to do two full courses of maracyn2 back to back 

[Bbaker]

I would treat the tank for internal parasites just in case it was one of those little devils. Whatever the cause, you have my condolences. Hope you get it sorted out quickly.

[Retrophyllum_minus]

3 minutes ago, Colu said:

You want maracyn2 it's shrimp and snails safe and treats gram negative bacterial infections you will need to do two full courses of maracyn2 back to back 

Ok thank you!