Nerite snails die within 24 hrs

[j2Raptor]

First of all, I am a beginner. I wanted to start a simple 5 gal tank for my 1st grader. Our plan was to get a few guppies or a beta and a snail to help clean. I've now gone though 3 snails.

I set up the tank with tap water and used tap water conditioner. After a few days, I added some stabilizer. After a few days, I added a nerite snail. By the next day it was not moving. I thought maybe there wasn't enough food for it. I replaced the snail and included a couple canned green beans. Again, dead with 24 hours. For the last one, I floated the bag to help it acclimate. Still died. 

I've tested the water and all the numbers are good as far as I can tell, picture below. They haven't changed in the past week. The tank is now starting to turn green. The pictures below show the tank from last week, and then how it is now. In the last photo, you can see two snails. The one on the bridge hasn't moved in more than 48 hours.

I don't know what to do. Should I give up on snails? Is there another algae eater that is appropriate for a small tank? Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Sacah]

Do you have a test for Ammonia? What is the 'stabiliser' you added after a few days?

[j2Raptor]

The ammonia looks like it's near 0 ppm, picture below. And I haven't seen it high. The link is the stabilizer I used. I was told it's beneficial bacteria to help break down the ammonia from using the tap conditioner when the tank was first setup.

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/seachem-stability-water-conditioner-5024275--1

Tagging others who were also very helpful in a similar thread. @Guppysnail @TeeJay @eatyourpeas @Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

One thought I have is that sometimes snails are just plopped into a tank, but they have to be temperature acclimated just like fish, meaning, you must float the bag for 15-30 minutes at least before releasing them. I’d recommend adding a little of your tank water to the bag once or twice during that time. 

I see for the last snail you did float the bag though, so I’m puzzled.

Also I read somewhere that nerites have trouble righting themselves, so when I place them into the tank I always make sure their opening is touching the ground.

Edited June 7 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[EricksonAquatics]

Did you check to make sure they were really dead? A lot of times snails almost “hibernate” when added to a new tank. You can easily tell if they’re dead by picking them up and smelling them. If they smell nasty, they’re gone. If they don’t have a smell, they’re just taking a long nap!😂

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/6/2024 at 8:30 PM, EricksonAquatics said:

Did you check to make sure they were really dead? A lot of times snails almost “hibernate” when added to a new tank. You can easily tell if they’re dead by picking them up and smelling them. If they smell nasty, they’re gone. If they don’t have a smell, they’re just taking a long nap!😂

That is a good point. Some snails I’ve purchased have hibernated several days to a week before getting brave enough to come out and explore. I always rely on the sniff test to be 100% sure.

Also @j2Raptor, does your tank have an airstone, and are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle? Since the tank is so new, the water chemistry is going to go through some ups & downs in various changes (New Tank Syndrome), the first being ammonia, which occurs when you add fish or invertebrates which produce waste. Ammonia is highly toxic, and if the tank does not have enough beneficial bacteria to handle the waste, ammonia will spike. In general, once a tank cycle is complete, you will have a nitrate reading, but no ammonia or nitrite readings. If nitrate is not present, the tank is likely not ready for creatures just yet. (Side note: organisms that die in the tank also produce ammonia)

 

To get the system going you can “ghost feed”- put fish food in the tank to produce ammonia. A certain bacteria will eat the ammonia. That bacteria will produce nitrite and a 2nd bacteria will eat that, giving off nitrate. Nitrate is the safe one for fish, as long as it doesn’t get too high. Regular water changes keep the nitrates down.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/nitrogen-cycle

Edited June 7 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Tony s]

On 6/6/2024 at 8:30 PM, EricksonAquatics said:

they’re just taking a long nap!😂

This! Absolutely. Unless it stinks it’s still there. I once had one crawl out and look dried out. Threw it back in and an hour later it was going again 

[j2Raptor]

On 6/6/2024 at 7:30 PM, EricksonAquatics said:

Did you check to make sure they were really dead? A lot of times snails almost “hibernate” when added to a new tank. You can easily tell if they’re dead by picking them up and smelling them. If they smell nasty, they’re gone. If they don’t have a smell, they’re just taking a long nap!😂

After introducing them to the tank, they started moving right away. All three of them went up to the waterline and stopped. For the first two, I moved them down, afraid they would escape, but they never moved again. I exchanged the first and second one, placing the second in the tank and putting the first in the bag the second came in. The first never moved again and I tossed it out with the bag after a day. The second is still on the bridge and hasn't moved since Tuesday. For the third one, it also climbed to the waterline, but this time I didn't touch it. Now it's in the corner as though it fell from it's spot. They don't smell, but I'm not hopeful. I will give them a chance and keep them around for a few days.

 

On 6/6/2024 at 7:32 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Also @j2Raptor, does your tank have an airstone, and are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle? 

I do not have an airstone. I assumed the hang-on-back filter was enough. Let me know if that's a bad assumption. 

I set up the tank two weeks ago, I thought that would be enough for the nitrogen cycle. Though, I started this snail journey about a week after setup. 

[EricksonAquatics]

I would just give them time. If they don’t smell, they’re still kicking. After a week or so they should be back at it, doing all the snail things😉

Also, mine goes up to the waterline all the time. He sometimes likes to hang up out of the water, too. If you have a lid with no gaps in it, they won’t escape. Best if you don’t touch them!

[Tony s]

On 6/6/2024 at 10:01 PM, EricksonAquatics said:

Best if you don’t touch them

You can if you’re careful. After a few days if there’s no movement, you can pull gently on the trap door. If there’s resistance, it’s still alive. Dead snails pop out of the shell with little resistance. But be careful not to pry too hard. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Climbing out: This is a normal behavior for nerites, and you will find they enjoy spending a few hours out of the water. However, if snails immediately climb to the waterline or above, it could also indicate that there is a problem with the water and they are uncomfortable. Possibly a parameter problem or no airstone running in the tank.

 

On 6/6/2024 at 9:19 PM, j2Raptor said:

For the first two, I moved them down

Nerites have very powerful suction and you should try not to move them because it could harm them. Fish stores must move them to sell them, but in the home aquarium they should be left attached to a surface unless it is absolutely necessary. Moving them also creates stress. Stress in fish or snails can lead to poor health.

On 6/6/2024 at 9:19 PM, j2Raptor said:

The first never moved again and I tossed it out with the bag after a day

Nerites can take several days or longer to move because they are nervous about their new surroundings and are recovering from stress of transport and different water.

On 6/6/2024 at 9:19 PM, j2Raptor said:

The second is still on the bridge and hasn't moved since Tuesday

I would gently lift the snail out of the water if it is not attached to the bridge and sniff it. If it is dead, trust me, you’ll know. I would do the sniff test once a day if you don’t see movement. Also, observe the snail using the zoom on your phone camera to see if a hairlike antenna is poking out and feeling around.
 

On 6/6/2024 at 9:19 PM, j2Raptor said:

I do not have an airstone. I assumed the hang-on-back filter was enough

You do need an airstone because water additives, especially dechlorinators remove a lot of oxygen from the water. The organisms in the tank will struggle to breathe without added air whenever you dechlorinate, medicate, or add other products to the water.

On 6/6/2024 at 7:36 PM, j2Raptor said:

and included a couple canned green beans

Green beans are readily accepted by mystery snails, but nerites will usually not touch them. Nerites survive on algae and biofilm. They do well in cycled tanks and things like driftwood and catappa leaves help them out because biofilm readily grows on those surfaces. @Guppysnail has a lot of nerites. @Guppysnail what do you think is the best food for nerites once they’ve eaten all the algae? (My nerites have lots of algae to eat, so I don’t really need to supplementally feed, but when I do I take Soilent green Repashy powder and swirl it in the tank so it coats surfaces).

 

 

 

Brown diatoms start to appear when a new tank is starting to cycle. It is a good sign that you are on your way to having a healthy ecosystem suitable for aquarium inhabitants.
 

 

Edited June 7 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/6/2024 at 7:36 PM, j2Raptor said:

The tank is now starting to turn green

This is actually a good thing!  Ecosystem!

Edited June 7 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[gardenman]

Copper is a snail killer. If your water has copper in it, that could be causing your trouble. Old copper piping in homes can deteriorate over time (especially if your tap water is acidic) and just the friction of the water moving through the pipes can pull away small bits of the copper that can cause issues for snails or other invertebrates. If you live in an older house, the issue is more likely than in a newer house.  Some of the old copper plumbing was quite soft compared to newer compounds and was more vulnerable to deterioration. It may not be that but if you find snails, shrimp, or any invertebrate hard to keep alive, copper is often the problem.

[Rube_Goldfish]

@j2Raptor, do you know the pH of your water? I struggled with nerites in a similar way as you have been, and I ended up deciding that my pH (in the low to mid-6s) didn't agree with them and what they needed for healthy shells. That said, I agree with everyone here, but it can be one more bit of useful information.

[j2Raptor]

Still no movement from either snail. I've picked each one up once to smell them, and there's no noticeable smell. They are completely inside the shell, not attached to anything. The snails have not clung to anything since first being introduced to the tank. 

 

On 6/7/2024 at 7:10 AM, gardenman said:

Copper is a snail killer. 

I don't think this is the issue. My house does not contain copper pipes, and the testing strips show zero copper. 

 

On 6/7/2024 at 9:40 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

do you know the pH of your water? 

It appears to be around 7.8, it might be bumping up again 8.

Ammonia appears to be low, nitrite at 0.25, and nitrate less than 5.

[Tony s]

@j2Raptor I think they’re still fin give them a couple of days to a week to adjust to your tank. If they pass, you’ll know. They really stink to high heaven. Just check on them a bit each day. You’ve got good water for them.

Okay I take that back, your nitrites are definitely too high. You need to change water a couple of times to get it down. It may actually be that they’re hiding from bad water quality. There isn’t a safe level of nitrites. Sorry if I was confusing there, I should pay closer attention.

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 6/7/2024 at 8:17 PM, j2Raptor said:

Still no movement from either snail. I've picked each one up once to smell them, and there's no noticeable smell. They are completely inside the shell, not attached to anything. The snails have not clung to anything since first being introduced to the tank. 

 

I don't think this is the issue. My house does not contain copper pipes, and the testing strips show zero copper. 

 

It appears to be around 7.8, it might be bumping up again 8.

Ammonia appears to be low, nitrite at 0.25, and nitrate less than 5.

I'm sorry, everything I know about nerite snails -- which isn't much -- says that that ought to be fine. I wish I knew what to tell you.

[Tony s]

@j2Raptor okay now I’m confused. Those tests show different levels for nitrites. Your strips say you’re fine. You’re too high in the drop tests. I’d try and keep the nitrites lower on the drop tests to be safe. Then dechlorinate with prime if you have some. It helps bind up some of the toxins 

[Tony s]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea @Rube_Goldfish @EricksonAquatics @gardenman  I almost missed the last test. Anybody got an idea on the difference between the strips and drops. My first thought is to trust the drops. And the snails may be hiding.

@j2Raptor I think you’re going to be fine, you may just have to test more often for nitrites and change water when you see anything. I think you’re only partially cycled at this point. Your ammonia is converting to nitrites, but your nitrites haven’t been changing to nitrates yet. It will. Just going to take time. Water change and prime will get you through this.

Oh, by the way, I have been caught doing this as well. It’s quite common, especially when petco/petsmart tells you that you can add fish the same day you buy a tank. 

[Tony s]

Oh, for a kids tank, it’s very cute. Right up my daughter’s ally. But she decided on a fake tree and blue gravel. She had a beta and snails also. Then she added kuhli loaches. Her squiggle noodles 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/7/2024 at 9:28 PM, Tony s said:

Anybody got an idea on the difference between the strips and drops

I trust drops. Strips are hit & miss.

@j2Raptor if you have ammonia and nitrite, your tank is still cycling and those are highly toxic to organisms. Water changes with Prime are your best bet to try to save them as @Tony s suggested.

On 6/7/2024 at 9:28 PM, Tony s said:

It’s quite common, especially when petco/petsmart tells you that you can add fish the same day you buy a tank

Yep, that’s a real problem with chain store. Mom & pop shops usually educate better to set people up for success.

[j2Raptor]

On 6/7/2024 at 8:12 PM, Tony s said:

Those tests show different levels for nitrites.

The units are different, ppm vs mg/L. And if I had to say so, the strip does look off-white-pink rather than the stark white it should be for 0 nitrite. 

I'll change out some of the water tomorrow. Hopefully these guys survive until the nitrite converts. It seems I was to quick to introduce them to the tanks. I thought they would be hardy enough.

I just don't remember going through all this trouble when I was a kid. But then again, I was a kid, who knows what trouble my parents went through to keep those black mollies alive.

 

On 6/7/2024 at 8:47 PM, Tony s said:

Oh, for a kids tank, it’s very cute. Right up my daughter’s ally. But she decided on a fake tree and blue gravel. She had a beta and snails also. Then she added kuhli loaches. Her squiggle noodles 

Thanks! She was very proud of it. Unfortunately, there's less excitement with the "dead" snails and with the tank turning green, but you guys have given her hope. 

I've never heard of kuhli loaches. I think she would loves those! Is a 5 gal tank appropriate for them? Can they live with a beta or would guppies be better? Something else for me to look into.

[EricksonAquatics]

On 6/7/2024 at 8:28 PM, Tony s said:

Anybody got an idea on the difference between the strips and drops.

I would trust the drops to be more accurate for sure, especially if the nitrites are at that low of a level. But I don’t know wether or not to trust them for nitrates bc my drop test always reads at least twice as high as my strips (and I’m quite sure my nitrates aren’t at 80ppm). But @j2Raptor still definitely do a couple extra water changes and add prime as an extra precaution, as @Tony ssaid 🙂

[Tony s]

On 6/7/2024 at 10:40 PM, j2Raptor said:

I just don't remember going through all this trouble when I was a kid. But then again, I was a kid, who knows what trouble my parents went through to keep those black mollies alive

Back when my youngest brother had fish, there was no guide. Now we know more. I honestly did the same in several tanks when starting. Including my wife’s big angel tank. Dosing prime and doing water changes is about the only way to work through this. But as long as the nitrites stay down the animals should be safe. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

@j2Raptor the reason folks are suggesting Prime is because Prime “locks up” ammonia and nitrite (makes it nontoxic). This is not a lasting effect though. It lasts 24-48 hours, then you must water change/redose if you are still getting readings. I always err on the side of caution and assume it lasts 24 hours only. (Also you will still get reading while it is in its nontoxic state).

Remember that dechlorinator will reduce oxygen in the tank, so you’ll want to add the airstone when you can.

Edited June 8 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea