Eye injury

[EggShappedFish]

Yesterday I noticed that Wendy had gotten an injury just bellow her right eye. I have previously lost fish to similar injuries, but in a different tank setup where it might have gotten infected (not that I don't believe that this one can!)

I am not too nervous about it, but still a bit concerned. I understand that sometimes trying to help, can do more damage than help, so I am planning to leave it as is, and see where it goes.

I gave her a salt bath/dip that might have been too tough on her, but she recovered within 5-10 minutes although slightly stressed

Do you think I should be concerned? Any advice?
I have no access to medications other methylene blue, and salt

 

 

Here is a link to a short video that may show the injury better:
https://i.imgur.com/rSHyGsq.mp4

 

[Colu]

What are your water parameters ammonia nitrite nitrate pH KH GH temperature any thing Sharpe in the tank that could have cut itself on @EggShappedFish

[EggShappedFish]

On 4/10/2024 at 1:46 AM, Colu said:

What are your water parameters ammonia nitrite nitrate pH KH GH temperature any thing Sharpe in the tank that could have cut itself on @EggShappedFish

I won't be able to check before tomorrow but usually ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and I dont let nitrates get over 20.

Its quite hard water and a high ph of around 8 but i figured they are better off with that, than fluctuating values of me trying to lower them. 

I have removed a lot of the stuff that they could get hurt on but it seems that goldfish are experts at it nontheless! I dont see how she should have cut herself but i guess if some food was stuck in an anubias rhizome, she may have gotten a bit too enthusiastic and got hurt

[Colu]

On 4/10/2024 at 7:05 AM, EggShappedFish said:

I won't be able to check before tomorrow but usually ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and I dont let nitrates get over 20.

Its quite hard water and a high ph of around 8 but i figured they are better off with that, than fluctuating values of me trying to lower them. 

I have removed a lot of the stuff that they could get hurt on but it seems that goldfish are experts at it nontheless! I dont see how she should have cut herself but i guess if some food was stuck in an anubias rhizome, she may have gotten a bit too enthusiastic and got hurt

When you test if your water parameters are fine then it looks more like an injury you would have to monitor very closely just in case it develops a secondary bacterial or fungal infection you could add some Indian almond leaves as they have antibacterial and antifungal properties you might have to add one leaf per gallon to get a beneficial effect  if you notice it get worse then I would do a course of kanaplex or maracyn2 Which ever one is more readily available @EggShappedFish

Edited April 10 by Colu

[EggShappedFish]

On 4/10/2024 at 12:15 PM, Colu said:

kanaplex or maracyn2

All fish medications are out of bounds here. I live in EU and in my country I can't buy fish medications at all. I can import it from Germany though.

 

I already have a stock of methylene blue, some Potassium permanganate and some yellow powder that i am not quite sure of what it is right now.

[Colu]

On 4/10/2024 at 12:28 PM, EggShappedFish said:

All fish medications are out of bounds here. I live in EU and in my country I can't buy fish medications at all. I can import it from Germany though.

 

I already have a stock of methylene blue, some Potassium permanganate and some yellow powder that i am not quite sure of what it is right now.

Yellow powder is usually nitrofurazone that antibiotic treatment that predominantly treats gram negative bacterial infections you should be able to get Esha 2000 that is effective against mild bacterial infections hopefully you won't need to treat I would have  some medication to hand just in case 

[Airborne 82nd]

"All fish medications are out of bounds here. I live in EU and in my country I can't buy fish medications at all. I can import it from Germany though."

Why is this?

[Nora Loves Corys]

On 4/10/2024 at 5:09 PM, Airborne 82nd said:

"All fish medications are out of bounds here. I live in EU and in my country I can't buy fish medications at all. I can import it from Germany though."

Why is this?

I'm sure it is in response to the irresponsible and unwarranted use of antibiotics in the aquarium hobby. When you don't use things responsibly and judiciously, they get taken away. This is happening on a smaller scale in the US: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-warns-nine-manufacturers-distributors-unapproved-antimicrobials-animals

[EggShappedFish]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:09 AM, Airborne 82nd said:

Why is this?

I can not tell you why, or the reason why. I can only guess that it is because the EU wants better control with anibiotics and maybe also with what gets poured into the sewage.

Practically, to legally buy fish medications here, you need a prescription from a vet. This in itself is difficult, because partly very few no vets know much about fish treatment (3 in the whole country and they don't take consultations they work in zoos). The reason they won't prescribe medication is that they can be charged for wrongfull medication if they prescribe something that was not needed. Now, even if you can get a prescription from a vet, for treating your fish, you can't buy the well known fish medications because manufacturers haven't gotten their medications approved by the national authorities. This means that the best a vet can do, is find similar substanses in medications for dogs or cats, and prescribe them in the appropriate dosages.

 

Luckily, it is possible to import medications from other EU countries as long as it is for personal use (no selling to others).
How are they available in other EU countries you ask? This is the weird part. The EU is, as far as I know, not targeting home fish keeping. They are after the fish industrry who breed fish in large scale for consumption. Therefore, the EU has allowed member countries to exclude aquarium fish keeping from these regulations (we could once buy medication off the shelf at pet stores). Each country decides if the want to use the exception or not. So the country where I live, has chosen not to, but the neighboring country has, so I can order them from there, online and have it shipped. By the time the right medication arrives though, most fish that are in need of more treatment than salt, have already passed the point of recovery.

 

I am sorry for the long rant, but I have been quite involved in this, even talking with politicians, local authorities, and even manufacturers and EU representatives.
There is not much to be done really and it frustrates me that fish are being differentiated so much compared to other pets. Imagine a vet only being able to suggest treating an infected dog wound, with salt or let it die.

We had a similar situation with pet rabbits/bunnies, as they practically also can be bred for consuming. Medications were being regulated so much that vets were not allowed to prescribe them to pet rabbit and guinea pig owners. This has been overturned though, and is not a bit more relaxed.

I personally think EU has done some great things, and this seems great too. It is my country's implementation of them that is terrible.

[EggShappedFish]

On 4/10/2024 at 12:15 PM, Colu said:

if you notice it get worse then I would do a course

Does this look like bacterial or fungus infection? It seems to be getting worse.

I can treat with Funox (although i'd need to donse 0,7gr so it could be an issue.

I also have methylene blue but thats about what I have access to at this point!

Edited April 15 by EggShappedFish

[Colu]

It looks like an injury if the Redding got worse it could have developed a secondary bacterial infections if it has a fuzzy appearance it could have developed a secondary fungal infection what I would do is a course of yellow powder that should be nitrofurazone a broad spectrum antibiotic and add aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 2 gallons that will treat fungal and bacterial infections just remember to only put back in what you take out so if you do a 2 gallon water change put 1 table spoon of aquarium back in as salt only removed though water changes you can  aquarium salt at most pet shops  @EggShappedFish

[EggShappedFish]

On 4/15/2024 at 12:17 PM, Colu said:

yellow powder that should be nitrofurazone a broad spectrum antibiotic

Thanks!

3 follow up questions

1. The active ingrediends of the Funox powder that I have are (p.g.) 0,33g Nitrofurantoine (is this equivalent to nitrofurazone?) and 0,33g Oxytetracycline.
2. How do i weigh 1gr of the powder? I have a mini scoop for some test set that require powders. Would that be 1 gr?
3. When treating with antibiotics, do they also kill the benneficial bacteria of the filter? I ask, in order to adjust accordingly when setting up a treatment tank. Does it need a cycled filter or is an airstone enough, and do dailly water changes?

[Colu]

On 4/15/2024 at 11:26 AM, EggShappedFish said:

Thanks!

3 follow up questions

1. The active ingrediends of the Funox powder that I have are (p.g.) 0,33g Nitrofurantoine (is this equivalent to nitrofurazone?) and 0,33g Oxytetracycline.
2. How do i weigh 1gr of the powder? I have a mini scoop for some test set that require powders. Would that be 1 gr?
3. When treating with antibiotics, do they also kill the benneficial bacteria of the filter? I ask, in order to adjust accordingly when setting up a treatment tank. Does it need a cycled filter or is an airstone enough, and do dailly water changes?

I would treat with funox  Any antibiotic treatment can harm your benefial bacterial I use a gram scale when measuring out  small amounts of medication you can get them cheap on Amazon I  have an extra cycled sponge filter in my main tank i can use in my quarantine tank and aways add an extra air stone during treatment as the medication lowers the level of dissolved oxygen 

Edited April 15 by Colu

[EggShappedFish]

On 4/15/2024 at 12:32 PM, Colu said:

I would treat with funox  Any antibiotic treatment can harm your benefial bacterial I use a gram scale when measuring out  small amounts of medication you can get them cheap on Amazon I  have an extra cycled sponge filter in my main tank i can use in my quarantine tank and aways add an extra air stone during treatment as the medication lowers the level of dissolved oxygen 

Perfect. I will get a gram weight later today and start treatment in a treatment tank. I do have multiple filters, but they all run 1000lit/hour. I will find a way though. I think that I can build a filter and re-use some of the filter cycled media

Just to be clear, you would only treat with Funox - does this mean no salt?

 

 

[Colu]

On 4/15/2024 at 12:09 PM, EggShappedFish said:

Perfect. I will get a gram weight later today and start treatment in a treatment tank. I do have multiple filters, but they all run 1000lit/hour. I will find a way though. I think that I can build a filter and re-use some of the filter cycled media

Just to be clear, you would only treat with Funox - does this mean no salt?

 

 

I would also use aquarium salt alongside the funox