Help with BBA in planted freshwater tank

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/23/2024 at 2:19 PM, awgraham said:

Heater doesn't tell temp. It's the "twist until the light comes on" type (Aquatop HTG Glass Heater with Guard - 50 watt).

Ok.  well, it might be set at a constant 78 which is typical for those types of things.  It also might be high on the range (+2 degrees is pretty normal).  Just keep an eye out in the case that it's actually broken / stuck on and cooking the tank.  You can get a heater controller, there's a few brands out there.

This one?  I think temp readout is here.  Looks similar to eheim jager.  I'll check if there's an adjustment.

(Edit: It just says to "turn the dial until the desired temp is displayed on the front")

 

Edited January 23 by nabokovfan87

[awgraham]

@nabokovfan87 Yes, I do indeed have that dial on top. Checked and it appears to be set to about 79, although as noted I'm about about 81 right now. Should I adjust down 2-3 degrees to get to around 78?

[Pepere]

On 1/23/2024 at 6:50 PM, awgraham said:

Yes, I do indeed have that dial on top. Checked and it appears to be set to about 79, although as noted I'm about about 81 right now. Should I adjust down 2-3 degrees to get to around 78?

I would.  Plants tend to do better in cooler water.  Algae tends to like warmer.

 

I us an Inkbird controller on my tanks that turns on the heater when the tank drops to 74 degrees and turns it off when the tank gets up to 76.  This way you leave the thermostat on the heater just above that temp and it provides a failsafe in case of the Inkbird controller not shutting off.  Ie 2 thermostats..,

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/23/2024 at 3:50 PM, awgraham said:

@nabokovfan87 Yes, I do indeed have that dial on top. Checked and it appears to be set to about 79, although as noted I'm about about 81 right now. Should I adjust down 2-3 degrees to get to around 78?

Rainbows, I've been told prefer 74-76.  Go from there.  Set it to 74, knowing it's running hot, you'll end up at 76-77.

Because you're dropping temp, not raising it, it's not a situation where you need to do so gradually.  Just let the room temp drop the tank naturally.

[awgraham]

Hello again, fish people. Providing some updates and asking more Qs.

Since I last posted, I have (in accordance with suggestions provided in this thread):

1. Bought and started using a Reverse Osmosis filter for all my water
2. Removed my most impacted plants and gave them the Jurjis treatment (several days in bucket with Flourish Excel) and then returned them to the tank
3. Removed one of large rocks to reduce hardscape in the middle of the tank where most of the light is focused
4. Removed a lot of the hornwort that was browning
5. Dropped the temperature to ~76 and started using point and shoot forehead thermometer for measurements
6. Bought liquid tests for GH and KH

Will post an updated pic and latest measurements below. BBA seems mostly gone as far as I can see (fingers crossed). Now it seems mostly I just wait and watch the tank closely, hoping to see new plant growth and no new algae. Some questions:

1. Would it be a good idea to add some more plants now? If so, watched Cory's video on top 10 plants for beginners and was thinking to buy two of those recs (Bacopa caroliniana and Dwarf sagataria "Easiest carpet plant").
2. Are there any of my measurements that are concerning? For KH and GH, are my current measurements good?
3. It seems in general, that if things are working well, after I dose Easy Green in my tank, if I check 2-3 days later, my nitrates should have dropped, right? Any way to estimate how much they should have dropped? If they haven't dropped, does this mean my plants are not processing the Easy Green as intended?

As always, thanks for all the feedback!

 

 

[Mmiller2001]

GH and KH look real good and I would definitely add more plants. I will make this recommendation, Hygrophila Polysperma.

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/27/2024 at 2:44 PM, awgraham said:

Would it be a good idea to add some more plants now? If so, watched Cory's video on top 10 plants for beginners and was thinking to buy two of those recs (Bacopa caroliniana and Dwarf sagataria "Easiest carpet plant").

Both of those are fun/great plants.  Microsword is similar to the dwarf sag.  If you can get something like Val for the back wall, you might end up loving the look of it.

 

On 1/27/2024 at 2:44 PM, awgraham said:

It seems in general, that if things are working well, after I dose Easy Green in my tank, if I check 2-3 days later, my nitrates should have dropped, right? Any way to estimate how much they should have dropped? If they haven't dropped, does this mean my plants are not processing the Easy Green as intended?

Not really an easy way to estimate it, but dropping means the plants are using it.  So... you don't want to go to 0. but lower than 10 when you add more is fine/perfect.  I have low nitrates, add in the ferts, then just test daily.  Yep, time to add more.  Find the rhythm and then set the schedule at that point.

GH is "fine", but your KH is basically 0.  It just means you're at a high risk of pH crashes and instability.  I like to see ~4 as a minimum.  I don't know what @Mmiller2001 min recommendation would be, but I just want to mention it for the sake of any issues you may run into.  pH for Mmiller is fun because of the CO2 he's got dialed in and the PH drops he has.

Now that you know how to battle the BBA, you're better moving forward managing it and it's just about dialing in all of the other parts that the plants need.

[Mmiller2001]

For plants, I recommend 0 to 1dKH, depends on live stock though. That said, I keep my Rainbows 0 to .6 and pH is running about 5.3 with the .6dKH.

[awgraham]

@Mmiller2001 when I Google search for Hygrophila Polysperma I see an Etsy link.  I’m not finding this in the places I have bought plants. Should I be looking for a different name? Or can you link to a suggested source?

[Mmiller2001]

On 1/28/2024 at 11:36 AM, awgraham said:

@Mmiller2001 when I Google search for Hygrophila Polysperma I see an Etsy link.  I’m not finding this in the places I have bought plants. Should I be looking for a different name? Or can you link to a suggested source?

That’s it, I only found it on Etsy myself long ago.

[awgraham]

Updates - things seems to be going well. Since the last post....

• Parameter are steady
• Have added some new plants:
  • Red jungle val and micro-sword (as suggested by @nabokovfan87)
  • Bacoba (not sure which variety)
  • Want to add the hygrophile polysperma suggested by @Mmiller2001 but trying to keep costs down while I'm between jobs and trying not to spend too much money on this hobby. Haven't added yet.
• Posting pics of tank and new growth I'm seeing below. Overall, seems to be going well.

One question - I've been adding 8 pumps of Easy Green after weekly water changes (I've been doing changing about 5 gallons out, which is about 33% of the tank). After adding the 8 pumps, I'm at about 40 ppm of nitrate. And when I check throughout the week, it doesn't seem to be dropping. But my plants are growing and I'm not seeing any algae...

Q1 - Should I cut down on my Easy Green dosing?

Q2 - If I stay at 8 pumps and my nitrates are at 40 ppm, am I risking harming my fish?

Q3 - I'm just now using only RO water. @Pepere had suggested using Seachem Equilibrium to add calcium and magnesium. If I start doing this, how much do I use and does this impact how much Easy Green I dose? If I start doing this, what changes do I expect to see? Any changes in measurements I'm taking?

Q4 - I added java moss (tied to the shrimp cave in front left) a few weeks ago. It has been brown since, but seems to be coming around with tips starting to turn green. Think I just need to watch it patiently, but let me know if any other recs or concerns.

Thanks, all.

 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/9/2024 at 12:25 PM, awgraham said:

Q4 - I added java moss (tied to the shrimp cave in front left) a few weeks ago. It has been brown since, but seems to be coming around with tips starting to turn green. Think I just need to watch it patiently, but let me know if any other recs or concerns.

It happens with a lot of moss. Basically that's just where the plant didn't get light or what it needed and that ended up dying back a little bit. Chopping it does tend to propagate the moss much quicker, so something like chopping it into small bits and gluing it could be used here. Jurijs has a good video on this.  Another method would essentially be to wrap the moss around a rock.  You can keep it where you have it, but maybe when you do a WC if it's not secured then you'll have it floating around. The final awesome way to use moss is a moss ledge or a background wall of moss. 

On 2/9/2024 at 12:25 PM, awgraham said:

Love this plant! Just make sure the rhizome isn't buried. Only the roots need to be.

You can also push the light a little forward if you see algae start to grow on the leaves on this plant or anything in the back that might be less demanding.

On 2/9/2024 at 12:25 PM, awgraham said:

One question - I've been adding 8 pumps of Easy Green after weekly water changes (I've been doing changing about 5 gallons out, which is about 33% of the tank). After adding the 8 pumps, I'm at about 40 ppm of nitrate. And when I check throughout the week, it doesn't seem to be dropping. But my plants are growing and I'm not seeing any algae...

Q1 - Should I cut down on my Easy Green dosing?

Q2 - If I stay at 8 pumps and my nitrates are at 40 ppm, am I risking harming my fish?

I would tend to do one or two bigger water changes so that you drop the levels down. Say ~20ppm and then that's your baseline. Once you get near 50 you can have some issues with fish health over time. I'd have to pull the studies from aquaculture on the topic, but those are out there as well.

On 2/9/2024 at 12:25 PM, awgraham said:

Q3 - I'm just now using only RO water. @Pepere had suggested using Seachem Equilibrium to add calcium and magnesium. If I start doing this, how much do I use and does this impact how much Easy Green I dose? If I start doing this, what changes do I expect to see? Any changes in measurements I'm taking?

You would test your GH and KH levels. Does not impact easy green in any way.

[awgraham]

@nabokovfan87 Thanks for the replies. Did a 50% water change yesterday (about 7.5 gallons for my 15-16 gallon tank, whereas I usually do 5 gallons for close to 33% change). Only thing different about yesterday's change that I can think of:

1) Bigger - 50% change instead of 33%

2) Been cold here lately and when I put the new water in the tank, my tank temp was about 71-72, under my recent ave of 76. Today it's back to 76 because of the heater.

Woke up this morning to see that I lost 3 fish overnight: my honey gourami, my Molly (which I hoped to give to someone else, but didn't find anyone to take) and one of my furcata rainbows.  Now I'm trying to figure out if it was the water temp or the bigger than usual water change.

My nitrates before the change were around 10-20ppm. I added 8 pumps of Easy Green after the change. Today the nitrates look like 40+ (which is what it has looked like each week after I change water and add Easy Green). 

Thoughts/theories?

Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/12/2024 at 11:03 AM, awgraham said:

Thoughts/theories?

when you're adding the Easy Green, try to add it to a container or jar or something and dilute it into the tank away from any fish.  Some sensitive fish can have it hit the gills as they are trying to swim up and expect feeding or something and it can cause some stress/issues/deaths.  I think I saw someone on the FB group had an issue with half-beaks that they lost this way.

That being said, temp could play a role and the shock in water from the tap going into the tank might be an issue here.  Normally things are going to be ok with a slight temp change, but if you're talking a good shift in one direction it can be stressful.  Stress leading to issues and whatever is going on leading to an issue.

Hopefully that helps. My condolences and I'm sorry for your struggles and losses.

On 2/12/2024 at 11:03 AM, awgraham said:

My nitrates before the change were around 10-20ppm. I added 8 pumps of Easy Green after the change. Today the nitrates look like 40+ (which is what it has looked like each week after I change water and add Easy Green). 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0144860914000041

Check out figure 3

Here's another interesting read as well:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8944636/

Edited February 13 by nabokovfan87

[Mmiller2001]

On 2/12/2024 at 7:25 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

when you're adding the Easy Green, try to add it to a container or jar or something and dilute it into the tank away from any fish

Um why? You’re over thinking this.

 

On 2/12/2024 at 7:25 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Some sensitive fish can have it hit the gills as they are trying to swim up and expect feeding or something and it can cause some stress/issues/deaths

I’m doubting this. Fish aren’t stupid, they would swim away.

Think about any body of water and I bet the temperature varies significantly at various depths. I doubt any fish dies be cause they swam deeper and water temperature changed by 7 or 8 degrees.

[gjcarew]

On 1/28/2024 at 10:36 AM, awgraham said:

@Mmiller2001 when I Google search for Hygrophila Polysperma I see an Etsy link.  I’m not finding this in the places I have bought plants. Should I be looking for a different name? Or can you link to a suggested source?

Hygrophila polysperma is on the USDA noxious weed list; it's illegal to sell hence why you'll only find hobbyists selling it. If you do decide to grow it, be careful with your trimmings

[awgraham]

On 2/12/2024 at 9:24 PM, gjcarew said:

Hygrophila polysperma is on the USDA noxious weed list; it's illegal to sell hence why you'll only find hobbyists selling it. If you do decide to grow it, be careful with your trimmings

@gjcarew Was not aware. Thanks.

 

@Mmiller2001 It's possible that losing about a quarter of my lifestock in one night is just random, but seems likely there was a cause. All my measurements are the same as the past. We did lose power about a week ago and my hang on back filter needed to be re-started. I cleaned it for the first time in many months (used tap water to clean the plastic elements, only used tank water to clean the sponge and media). That's the only thing unusual lately that I can think of. Maybe just random, but trying to learn if I made a mistake that caused this. Your guess is it was just random...bad luck?

 

[gjcarew]

On 2/13/2024 at 7:55 AM, awgraham said:

@gjcarew Was not aware. Thanks.

 

@Mmiller2001 It's possible that losing about a quarter of my lifestock in one night is just random, but seems likely there was a cause. All my measurements are the same as the past. We did lose power about a week ago and my hang on back filter needed to be re-started. I cleaned it for the first time in many months (used tap water to clean the plastic elements, only used tank water to clean the sponge and media). That's the only thing unusual lately that I can think of. Maybe just random, but trying to learn if I made a mistake that caused this. Your guess is it was just random...bad luck?

 

It's almost certainly not the easy green. Did you check chlorine levels? Any chance of contamination with cleaning products, like maybe in a bucket you used to transfer water? What is ammonia at? That would tell you if the cycle crashed.

 

[Mmiller2001]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:55 AM, awgraham said:

@gjcarew Was not aware. Thanks.

 

@Mmiller2001 It's possible that losing about a quarter of my lifestock in one night is just random, but seems likely there was a cause. All my measurements are the same as the past. We did lose power about a week ago and my hang on back filter needed to be re-started. I cleaned it for the first time in many months (used tap water to clean the plastic elements, only used tank water to clean the sponge and media). That's the only thing unusual lately that I can think of. Maybe just random, but trying to learn if I made a mistake that caused this. Your guess is it was just random...bad luck?

 

I agree with @gjcarew, this sounds like a toxin was introduced. I know here, in the winter, they increase chlorine dosing. I can smell it from the faucet and it irritates my eyes in the shower.

[awgraham]

@gjcarew @Mmiller2001 OK, maybe I figured it out and maybe it was a dumb mistake on my part. I started using RO water maybe 4 weeks ago or so. I have not been adding API water conditioner to the RO water, because I thought that putting the water through the RO process would remove anything harmful. Is that my mistake?

Screenshot of recent measurements below:

 

[gjcarew]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:14 AM, awgraham said:

@gjcarew @Mmiller2001 OK, maybe I figured it out and maybe it was a dumb mistake on my part. I started using RO water maybe 4 weeks ago or so. I have not been adding API water conditioner to the RO water, because I thought that putting the water through the RO process would remove anything harmful. Is that my mistake?

Screenshot of recent measurements below:

 

The best way to find out would be to test your R/O water.

The molly could have been weakened by the low water hardness (they need hard water). Honey gouramis always seem fragile to me, I've had multiple that didn't last more than a few weeks.

Maybe there is a contaminant, maybe it's just weak fish undergoing a stressful event (like a cold water change). It's admirable that you care enough to figure things out, but sometimes it's just a mystery. Try not to beat yourself up about it!

[awgraham]

@gjcarew Thanks. Not beating myself up, just wanting to figure out and learn from my mistake if I made one. Dumb Q - how do I test for chlorine? My screenshot above shows what I can test for - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, GH, KH. Oh, I guess I bought a phosphate test too, when I started this thread. Do I need to buy a specific test for chlorine?

[Mmiller2001]

On 2/13/2024 at 9:14 AM, awgraham said:

@gjcarew @Mmiller2001 OK, maybe I figured it out and maybe it was a dumb mistake on my part. I started using RO water maybe 4 weeks ago or so. I have not been adding API water conditioner to the RO water, because I thought that putting the water through the RO process would remove anything harmful. Is that my mistake?

Screenshot of recent measurements below:

 

Love the charting! Do you have a tds meter by any chance?

[awgraham]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:46 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

Love the charting! Do you have a tds meter by any chance?

Yes, I have this (which is the values in the second column of my measurements table).

[Mmiller2001]

On 2/13/2024 at 9:51 AM, awgraham said:

Yes, I have this (which is the values in the second column of my measurements table).

What's the tds of the RO water from the unit?