Plants suddenly not looking well. Not sure what I’m doing wrong.

[Christhefishman]

Hey everyone!

So my plants over the last 2 weeks have just started to look a little crummy and I’m trying to figure out what’s going on. Low tech tank so no co2 injection. 

0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, nitrates are consistently around 25 ppm, Ph is always right around 7.6-7.8 and moderately hard. 

hygger 24/7 plant light that runs for 5 hours, then a 4 hour siesta, then back on for another 5 hours. I’ve been running the light at 75% intensity. 
 

Easy Green is used at the recommended dosage after each weekly water change of 25% and I have co op root tabs in the sand that I replenish every couple months. I also add wonder shells for my 2 mystery snails and ramshorns. 
 

Recently I’ve noticed a short green hair algae is appearing on a lot of the plants, my patch of Bacopa is looking less vibrant green and more of a yellowish pale color and the older leaves towards the bottom are getting algae all over the place. Anubias are getting dark unsightly looking algae on the leaves. The dwarf aquarium lily is doing extremely well but when I look closely I can see short green hair algae on those leaves as well. Everything just looks kind of crappy right now and I’m not sure if it’s a light problem or a nutrient deficiency (esspecially with the color change of the Bacopa to looking more pale) and the hair algae is starting to really get on my nerves so I’m looking for advice on how to move forward! Still new-ish to live plants so if I’m missing something obvious bear with me. Thanks everyone!! 
 

 

[lefty o]

10hrs is a good chunk of light. id probably knock an hour off both the morning, and night, and see how that goes for a while.

[Christhefishman]

On 12/17/2023 at 10:37 PM, lefty o said:

10hrs is a good chunk of light. id probably knock an hour off both the morning, and night, and see how that goes for a while.

I’m going to try this out, I’m so used to my old mbuna tanks without plants and being able to have the light on longer hours for viewing but looks like when it comes to planted tanks I just have to suck it up and wind down that viewing period! Would it hurt the plants too much if I knocked the light down considerably to maybe 6 hours total for a bit to really make some progress with the algae more quickly? Or just knock a couple hours off like you said and slowly try to win the algae battle? I could also knock the intensity down from 75% to 50% if that will still be enough 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:06 PM, Christhefishman said:

I’m going to try this out, I’m so used to my old mbuna tanks without plants and being able to have the light on longer hours for viewing but looks like when it comes to planted tanks I just have to suck it up and wind down that viewing period! Would it hurt the plants too much if I knocked the light down considerably to maybe 6 hours total for a bit to really make some progress with the algae more quickly? Or just knock a couple hours off like you said and slowly try to win the algae battle? I could also knock the intensity down from 75% to 50% if that will still be enough 

4-8 is about the range of light I mess with in my tanks.  Intensity and duration are the two variables I try to limit as much as I can because for whatever reason I have the luck of dealing with one of the most resilient strains of staghorn and BBA in my tanks for years now.  I don't say that as a badge of honor thing, but just as a means of... I'm really frustrated by it!  I do have an algae thread in my links in my signature that have thoughts along that journey on dealing with algae.  Caveat aside, more than 8 hours and I really run into an issue.  Ticking the light up slightly as well and it's like the tank goes a bit crazy on me really fast.... taking weeks to remove the algae I just introduced.

By the initial title you posted I wanted to ask about the balance of the tank in terms of minerals.  The rule of thumb is usually that you want GH to be higher than KH.  Let's start there. What is your GH and what is your KH.  Over time the plants pull from that GH/KH and you'll do your maintenance to replace it.  If you don't then you have what is called old tank syndrome set in.  Essentially, not enough of the things building up being removed and not enough of the things being used added back in.
 

Although it might be frustrating at times, the fun thing is that there is always something to learn.  Let's dive in and see what makes sense for further discovery.

 

On 12/17/2023 at 9:27 AM, Christhefishman said:

Recently I’ve noticed a short green hair algae is appearing on a lot of the plants, my patch of Bacopa is looking less vibrant green and more of a yellowish pale color and the older leaves towards the bottom are getting algae all over the place. Anubias are getting dark unsightly looking algae on the leaves. The dwarf aquarium lily is doing extremely well but when I look closely I can see short green hair algae on those leaves as well. Everything just looks kind of crappy right now and I’m not sure if it’s a light problem or a nutrient deficiency (esspecially with the color change of the Bacopa to looking more pale) and the hair algae is starting to really get on my nerves so I’m looking for advice on how to move forward! Still new-ish to live plants so if I’m missing something obvious bear with me. Thanks everyone!! 

Yep... I have been there!  I am dealing with this right now with my Staurogyne Repens and it's just been an issue for months where I have growth, but the plant isn't thriving much at all.  Algae takes hold, especially bba, on dying parts of the plant.  The plant then uses the resources from those areas and leaves to feed new growth and try to outlast the algae.  Then the algae grows or triggers some spores and the cycle continues again.  One of the best things to do is increase plant mass by propagating them out.   Using root tabs may be literally all you have to do here to "perk up" the plants right now.  Checking the above parameters as well as your maintenance schedule is also just a good place to start.  Please feel free to ask the questions you might be without fear of sounding new to the hobby.  We all want you to thrive and you might just get to see some of the awesome aquascapers we have here!

[Christhefishman]

On 12/18/2023 at 4:12 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

4-8 is about the range of light I mess with in my tanks.  Intensity and duration are the two variables I try to limit as much as I can because for whatever reason I have the luck of dealing with one of the most resilient strains of staghorn and BBA in my tanks for years now.  I don't say that as a badge of honor thing, but just as a means of... I'm really frustrated by it!  I do have an algae thread in my links in my signature that have thoughts along that journey on dealing with algae.  Caveat aside, more than 8 hours and I really run into an issue.  Ticking the light up slightly as well and it's like the tank goes a bit crazy on me really fast.... taking weeks to remove the algae I just introduced.

By the initial title you posted I wanted to ask about the balance of the tank in terms of minerals.  The rule of thumb is usually that you want GH to be higher than KH.  Let's start there. What is your GH and what is your KH.  Over time the plants pull from that GH/KH and you'll do your maintenance to replace it.  If you don't then you have what is called old tank syndrome set in.  Essentially, not enough of the things building up being removed and not enough of the things being used added back in.
 

Although it might be frustrating at times, the fun thing is that there is always something to learn.  Let's dive in and see what makes sense for further discovery.

 

Yep... I have been there!  I am dealing with this right now with my Staurogyne Repens and it's just been an issue for months where I have growth, but the plant isn't thriving much at all.  Algae takes hold, especially bba, on dying parts of the plant.  The plant then uses the resources from those areas and leaves to feed new growth and try to outlast the algae.  Then the algae grows or triggers some spores and the cycle continues again.  One of the best things to do is increase plant mass by propagating them out.   Using root tabs may be literally all you have to do here to "perk up" the plants right now.  Checking the above parameters as well as your maintenance schedule is also just a good place to start.  Please feel free to ask the questions you might be without fear of sounding new to the hobby.  We all want you to thrive and you might just get to see some of the awesome aquascapers we have here!

Thank you for all of your feedback!! I’ve been keeping fish for 15 years but it’s always been larger Central American cichlid tanks or Malawi tanks. I haven’t given an honest shot at planted tanks until the past year and holy cow it’s like relearning everything!! The thing is though, now that I have planted tank I just can’t picture myself NOT having live plants, the whole environment just feels and looks so nature I’ve fallen in love with planted tank. But, as we both know it can be a real frustration when you think you’ve finally got everything looking good and growing good just to all the sudden have an algae explosion or the plants start looking bad but that’s what this happy is about, facing challenges and learning how to deal with them! 
 

So, I just did a test of my GH/KH and Gh is right between about 200 and 250. 
my Kh however is really low.. right around 40 or even a tad less. Uh oh. Although I haven’t noticed and Ph swings it’s always sitting at the high 7’s (usually 7.8) 

Is that odd that my general hardness is high yet the alkalinity is next to non existent? Rest of my tap water came back the same as well. Could that be a big contributor to the issues I’m facing? Would crushed coral in a big in the filter help or something like seachem equilibrium help? 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Christhefishman

[Christhefishman]

Okay one thing, I just noticed the test I was using for Kh was totally expired so I got a new one and now it’s saying the KH is just shy of 80ppm in the tank and it’s about 100ppm out of the tap. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/18/2023 at 9:28 AM, Christhefishman said:

So, I just did a test of my GH/KH and Gh is right between about 200 and 250. 
my Kh however is really low.. right around 40 or even a tad less. Uh oh. Although I haven’t noticed and Ph swings it’s always sitting at the high 7’s (usually 7.8) 

Is that odd that my general hardness is high yet the alkalinity is next to non existent? Rest of my tap water came back the same as well. Could that be a big contributor to the issues I’m facing? Would crushed coral in a big in the filter help or something like seachem equilibrium help? 

 

On 12/18/2023 at 12:22 PM, Christhefishman said:

Okay one thing, I just noticed the test I was using for Kh was totally expired so I got a new one and now it’s saying the KH is just shy of 80ppm in the tank and it’s about 100ppm out of the tap. 

Interesting! I always have to do a double take when I see KH at a certain point and then I see the PH really high.  Let's start with an off-gas test to get an idea of where things should be for PH-GH-KH and then try to map out a plan going forward.  I don't think you need to be using buffers for KH at all! Which does help with PH swings and stability, and algae.

Off-Gas testing:
-Take a sample of water from the tap where you get water for water changes and test the 3 parameters right away.
-Take that same sample of water and aerate it for 24 hours with an airstone and then retest everything.
-Test the tank and compare those results to the above 2. 

Ideally, test #2 and #3 are very similar.  That would indicate you're doing enough water changes, enough volume is being changed, and your maintenance is on point. 

If you have something like african cichlid substrate, planted/active substrate, seiryu stones, or a lot of wood then you should see the parameters in the tank evolve over time.  Organics and fish waste use up the KH, plants also affect that, and things like the minerals in the hardscape or substrate would increase it. 

While we're doing those tests, let's start here.... this video really helped me to understand my planted tank better and they do have some great information for keeping a planted tank!
 

 

[Christhefishman]

On 12/18/2023 at 6:35 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

 

Interesting! I always have to do a double take when I see KH at a certain point and then I see the PH really high.  Let's start with an off-gas test to get an idea of where things should be for PH-GH-KH and then try to map out a plan going forward.  I don't think you need to be using buffers for KH at all! Which does help with PH swings and stability, and algae.

Off-Gas testing:
-Take a sample of water from the tap where you get water for water changes and test the 3 parameters right away.
-Take that same sample of water and aerate it for 24 hours with an airstone and then retest everything.
-Test the tank and compare those results to the above 2. 

Ideally, test #2 and #3 are very similar.  That would indicate you're doing enough water changes, enough volume is being changed, and your maintenance is on point. 

If you have something like african cichlid substrate, planted/active substrate, seiryu stones, or a lot of wood then you should see the parameters in the tank evolve over time.  Organics and fish waste use up the KH, plants also affect that, and things like the minerals in the hardscape or substrate would increase it. 

While we're doing those tests, let's start here.... this video really helped me to understand my planted tank better and they do have some great information for keeping a planted tank!
 

 

First off I I just want to say thank you!! That video was absolutely excellent more people need to see it! I’m going to re watch it again tomorrow it was that good. As for the off gas testing, I think that’s an excellent idea and will help plan of course for what needs to happen on my part. I’ll start that testing process tomorrow as well. Seriously thank you, you’ve been really helpful and I greatly appreciate it. I’ll come back here  with some more testing results and we’ll go from there! 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/18/2023 at 11:05 PM, Christhefishman said:

Seriously thank you, you’ve been really helpful and I greatly appreciate it. I’ll come back here  with some more testing results and we’ll go from there! 

Happy to help! Seriously.

If you know how to get rid of BBA... I'm all ears. 😂

 

[Xr4tiCrew]

On 12/17/2023 at 10:27 AM, Christhefishman said:

Easy Green is used at the recommended dosage after each weekly water change of 25% and I have co op root tabs in the sand that I replenish every couple months. I also add wonder shells for my 2 mystery snails and ramshor

I would say you are fertilizing to much. That is what I was doing and mine started to look just like this. I run my Co-Op light 8 hours a day and it's on 3 clicks down from the full power setting. Still trying to find the right balance and am not sure how some people have it figured out. Even Cory has problems, just look at his fish room that he just spent an entire weekend redoing with a majority of tanks have an overabundance of algae in them.