Considering a shallow tank

[sairving]

Story time, I need a new tank stand. So I thought to myself, if I have to break the tank down, why not splurge on that rimless tank you want.

Self, this is great time to buy a larger tank. What do I fall in love with? The UNS 60S. It's 23.6 x 14.7 x 7.9. 

For those that have a shallow tank, what are the pros and cons? 

Filtration would be the Oase filtosmart 60. I have a fluval planted nano light. 

I currently have rice fish and white clouds in a 10 gallon. 

[sairving]

And I must find a way to keep the cat out of it. Because fish water is delicious.

Edited November 20, 2023 by sairving

[Biotope Biologist]

I personally really enjoy the flattened look.
 

I think the biggest thing you should consider is whether you want emergent plants. They will add dimension to the space. Sedge species are readily available in the spring in most pond sections and bog ferns are the first that come to mind. There are also a few anubias that actually prefer to grow emersed, including the ever popular anubias nana.
 

I think con would be that you are greatly limited in plant selection. Anything that grows tall will look squished so your plant selection submerged needs to be smaller plants or slow growers like microswords and mosses and such.

Another con is that fish get really comfortable in these enclosures with emergent plants. They feel safe and happy which means that even fish not considered jumpers will breach. Either use clear mesh netting over the water or allow for about 3-6” of space between the water level and the top of the tank. You can get clear mesh at BRS.

 

Anyway this is my 50g sub-alpine creek biotope:

 

 

[Lennie]

Hello there, 

I also love shallow tanks. I have one 23cm high and 20x 25cm h shallow tanks, so 21 shallow tanks in total. (One more, but I use it for my isopods).

I dont think there are big differences between normal tanks and shallow tanks. I can mention a few negative stuff that comes to my mind

-Plants that grow vertically fast can be a lil annoying to maintenance. This can be a limiting factor.  I would advice you to choose your plant options wisely in general to make sure height wont be a problem. Make sure this wont be an issue for you

- substrate depth can cut very much from the tank and swimming space. Scaping with a thin layer of sand on the bottom and leaning towards less substrate depth might be a good idea. Otherwise creating a balance between swimming space and substrate thickness can be a problem, planting and rooting may become annoying. 
 

-Installing a HOB can be annoying if thats your choice of filter. I use an AC30 in one of my tanks with similar size to yours, and I had to remove the intake tube and attach a fine sponge filter there directly. In one of my long shallow tanks(110cm long), I had to install a wavemaker to turn the water well and create nice surface agitation.

- siphoning the bottom is a bit challenging. Why? Because before you finish whole ground, you are usually siphon the half of the water in the tank. Surface area of the substrate is equal to the tanks that are much taller, so they hold more water. But in this case, tanks hold less water than an average tank with a similar footprint.

- In where I live, majority of the heaters are tall even if they are low W. The shortest I find is aquael ultra heater and even that is 16cm tall. With substrate it can be a bit challenging to position the heater vertically. Make sure tk get a heater that is short in height, or can be used lopsided

Edited November 20, 2023 by Lennie

[Guest]

@Biotope Biologist What are the dimensions for that tank, looks really good, and beautiful picture by the way 👏👏👏. 

And how did you manage to make the picture look that clear? Did you dip your phone in the water or smth?

 

[Biotope Biologist]

On 11/20/2023 at 6:49 AM, Kaiju said:

@Biotope Biologist What are the dimensions for that tank, looks really good, and beautiful picture by the way 👏👏👏. 

And how did you manage to make the picture look that clear? Did you dip your phone in the water or smth?

 

Its a 50g lowboy or frag tank. They are rather hard to come by nowadays but they used to be popular turtle and frag grow out tanks. Dimensions are 48x 26 x 11 I think.

 

And I take most pictures when there is direct sunlight on the tank it cuts the glare, I appreciate the compliments! 
 

The bottom pic I was trying to take a pic of the goby in the root tangle, but as soon as I got my phone out he dipped. They only let me take pictures if food is involved 😅

[Guest]

@Biotope Biologist That's awesome! I saw one by ZooMed that is being sold and it caught my eye so yours looked strikingly familiar. Your scape is absolutely STUNNING and I'd like to ask you for advice, I'm starting a project that I'm aiming to look like a river shoreline, sloping sand up to one side of the tank and adding spiderwood to look pretty mangrove-y along with various grey and white stones like Boutique Ohko, Any ideas? 

[Kit Craft]

Consider getting a nano gravel vac. Mine is from walmart and the tubing is about the size of airline tubing. It slows things down, a lot. But I use that on the nano tanks under 5 gallons. In your case something like the aqueon Mini should be fine. Though, I can still take 75% out of my 10 gallon in just a few minutes with that. Every tank I have has a turkey baster for spot cleaning. Snails are messy but it is easy to spot, lol. 

Shallow tanks look nice, imo and that 60s is a particularly nice one. I have my eye on the UNS 5N. I really wish the 5S was 7 inches tall rather than 4.72.

[sairving]

On 11/20/2023 at 9:24 AM, Kaiju said:

@Biotope Biologist That's awesome! I saw one by ZooMed that is being sold and it caught my eye so yours looked strikingly familiar. Your scape is absolutely STUNNING and I'd like to ask you for advice, I'm starting a project that I'm aiming to look like a river shoreline, sloping sand up to one side of the tank and adding spiderwood to look pretty mangrove-y along with various grey and white stones like Boutique Ohko, Any ideas? 

Yes! Not sure what I want to do with the tank yet but advice and input would be helpful. 

I ordered the UNS 60s

[Guest]

@sairving, I saw online the tank you ordered and it looks awesome! I would say that the hardest thing would be finding a big enough lamp for this lol. Otherwise I have no advice to give you, I know nothing about shallow tanks... 

[Galabar]

Something else to consider would be significant evaporation, given the large surface area.

[sairving]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:55 PM, Galabar said:

Something else to consider would be significant evaporation, given the large surface area.

I've been thinking about that in between running like a crazy person at work today. UNS sells lids and clips. My other option is to have one cut locally.  

[Biotope Biologist]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:55 PM, Galabar said:

Something else to consider would be significant evaporation, given the large surface area.

Weirdly not a lot of evaporative loss. You would think higher SA would do that but it also means better gas exchange from water to air.

 

For light depending on the height of your ceiling I would advise a ceiling hook and frame wire to hang the fixture from. Or some brands have a telescoping light stand, like kessil. Not budget friendly though. 

[sairving]

On 11/20/2023 at 8:31 PM, Biotope Biologist said:

Weirdly not a lot of evaporative loss. You would think higher SA would do that but it also means better gas exchange from water to air.

 

For light depending on the height of your ceiling I would advise a ceiling hook and frame wire to hang the fixture from. Or some brands have a telescoping light stand, like kessil. Not budget friendly though. 

After looking on YouTube to see what others where doing with this tank, I found this video.

He's running the tank with an Aqua Clear HOB and 2 clip on lights from Hiro aquatics. 

 

 

[Biotope Biologist]

Ferns look happy! I have an ACO dimmable light (prototype). In the previous setup I mounted the light to the ceiling. in the setup after the move I mounted a 33” shepherds hook to the tank stand

 

I really want the kessil tuna sun A360x as I saw it at the local fish store, aquarium zen, on their ADA jungle paludarium and was the closest thing to natural sunlight I have seen on the market.

 

On 11/20/2023 at 7:24 AM, Kaiju said:

@Biotope Biologist That's awesome! I saw one by ZooMed that is being sold and it caught my eye so yours looked strikingly familiar. Your scape is absolutely STUNNING and I'd like to ask you for advice, I'm starting a project that I'm aiming to look like a river shoreline, sloping sand up to one side of the tank and adding spiderwood to look pretty mangrove-y along with various grey and white stones like Boutique Ohko, Any ideas? 

For the slope id use eggcrate or some sort of hollow structure so that the sand has a good strong anchor. You can also fill the structure with soil if you aim to plant mangroves or some other plants that are deep rooters. 
 

whatever stone you use if it’s soft enough make sure to grab 3-4 stones extra to smash with a hammer to add to the sand. It will create a more natural gradient 

[Galabar]

Here's a calculator to show evaporation: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/evaporation-water-surface-d_690.html

Increasing surface area dramatically increases evaporation.

 

[Biotope Biologist]

On 11/21/2023 at 12:22 AM, Galabar said:

Here's a calculator to show evaporation: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/evaporation-water-surface-d_690.html

Increasing surface area dramatically increases evaporation.

 

Engineers always have an equation for something haha, but again this equation doesn’t exactly show what happens in the real world. It predicts roughly based on a stagnant pool of water with variables that do not change drastically.

 

But surface agitation, plant cover, shade, and turnover rate all play a role in evaporative loss. I think even tds and tss play a small role too.

 

Again I agree that technically a major increase in SA should theoretically lead to an increase in evaporative loss. But those are not observed in the real world.

[Galabar]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:09 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

Engineers always have an equation for something haha, but again this equation doesn’t exactly show what happens in the real world. It predicts roughly based on a stagnant pool of water with variables that do not change drastically.

 

But surface agitation, plant cover, shade, and turnover rate all play a role in evaporative loss. I think even tds and tss play a small role too.

 

Again I agree that technically a major increase in SA should theoretically lead to an increase in evaporative loss. But those are not observed in the real world.

What are you basing this on?  What real world studies can you show me where a wide tank doesn't have significantly more evaporation than a narrow tank?

Evaporation is going to be directly related to surface area.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Galabar

[Biotope Biologist]

On 11/21/2023 at 12:52 PM, Galabar said:

What are you basing this on?  What real world studies can you show me where a wide tank doesn't have significantly more evaporation than a narrow tank?

Evaporation is going to be directly related to surface area.

I don’t need to base it on any scientific articles because you won’t find any. Not one that studies a system in which there are too many variables to account for. 
 

Engineers can control for evaporative loss given several constants in a closed system environment. 
 

But fish tanks are not closed systems. They receive several inputs and have several things interacting that cannot be removed as variables. Something in which the equation lacks. Even the chemistry of the water plays an integral role which I believe is why the equation assumes a pH of 7.0 with no dissolved solids.

 

Such fiercely analytical minds can be a cumbrance. If you have further issue with my findings you can DM me, but I would rather not detract from OP’s intent to find useful information on ownership of a shallow body tank.

[Galabar]

Yeah...

I'm not going to engage any further.  You have a nice day. 🙂

OP, you can expect significant evaporation from those low wide tanks.  You'll want to factor that into your decision.

 

[Guppysnail]

On 11/21/2023 at 3:52 PM, Galabar said:

What are you basing this on?  What real world studies can you show me where a wide tank doesn't have significantly more evaporation than a narrow tank?

Evaporation is going to be directly related to surface area.

This type of query that distracts from the OPs topic should be handled through direct message.  

[sairving]

On 11/20/2023 at 8:25 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

I personally really enjoy the flattened look.
 

I think the biggest thing you should consider is whether you want emergent plants. They will add dimension to the space. Sedge species are readily available in the spring in most pond sections and bog ferns are the first that come to mind. There are also a few anubias that actually prefer to grow emersed, including the ever popular anubias nana.
 

I think con would be that you are greatly limited in plant selection. Anything that grows tall will look squished so your plant selection submerged needs to be smaller plants or slow growers like microswords and mosses and such.

Another con is that fish get really comfortable in these enclosures with emergent plants. They feel safe and happy which means that even fish not considered jumpers will breach. Either use clear mesh netting over the water or allow for about 3-6” of space between the water level and the top of the tank. You can get clear mesh at BRS.

 

Anyway this is my 50g sub-alpine creek biotope:

 

 

I've been thinking about emergent plants. Pond plants will be next to impossible to find until the spring.

I already gave an some crypts and anubias. Some of the anubias is a larger variety. It might be a good cabindate to experiment with converting to emersed growth. 

Right now I'm thinking more crypts, smaller anubias varieties, a dwarf aquarium lily or two. I've had decent success with Dwarf hair grass. Floating plants are a must.

I'll give micro swords a try but swords in general have never been successful in my tanks. Java ferns either. 

[Guppysnail]

@sairving is this shallow tank replacing the tank you had the journal on?  The one I’ve followed and watched you redo several times with the really cool wood in it?  
 

I hope you journal the builds on this one the same way. 

[sairving]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:19 PM, Guppysnail said:

@sairving is this shallow tank replacing the tank you had the journal on?  The one I’ve followed and watched you redo several times with the really cool wood in it?  
 

I hope you journal the builds on this one the same way. 

Yes. My plan was to go larger lol. It all started with "I need a new stand." Then, like a magpie, I was distracted by the pretty rimless tanks.

My current tank is doing pretty well. I've been struggling with algae and could not get the fun driftwood to sink at all. Just adjusted the light settings today. Another piece of wood came home....it floats too. I found that out after gluing the anubias to it. Ooops.

Took a trip to the fish store after work before they get crazy busy this weekend. I must have talked with one of the employees about filtration and tank ideas for 30 mins. Ended up buying a Sicce Whale 120. I can hide it in the stand and the only equipment in the tank will be a heater.

I'll start a new journal for this tank to track it. Speaking of tanks....it just shipped. (Excited dance)

 

 

[Guppysnail]

@sairving those stubborn no sink pieces of wood I drill holes where you cannot see them and loop this through. Sometimes two of these. I’m NOT patient. 🤣

Please tag me when you start the journal for this so I do not miss it 🙏