Teacups Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Hi all, I am new and trying to learn as much as I can! I have a 15 gallon tank (Fluval Flex 15) with lots of plants and the betta substrate from Aquarium Coop that has been running for about 10 weeks. I was doing daily testing, and my numbers started to normalize, so I added 3 fancy guppies 2 weeks ago. Yesterday, I wanted to add some more fancy guppies so my original batch wouldnt feel lonely, and since I didn't do any med trio on the first round of fish, I decided to just add my new fish to the tank and then do the med trio for everyone. I figured since I never did it for the first batch, it wouldn't hurt anyone to just do it for them all. After adding the med trio, about ~24 hours later my tank got super cloudy and my guppies were all at the top of the tank looking for air. I ran out and bought an airstone, which seemed to help and they are no longer up at the top of the tank. Here is my problem. After adding the med trio medicine, my nitrites got high. So I added some Fritz Zyme 7, since I figured that would neutralize the nitrite. And after adding Fritz Zyme 7, now all my numbers are at 0, as if I never had bacteria in at all. Where did I mess up? Should I change my tank water and do a fish-in cycle...? Or should I just wait it out and let the medicine do its thing? Ph is consistently 7.2 and water temp is 78 Here are some numbers: Before med Trio: Nitrates: 40 Nitrite: 0 Ammonia: 0 After med trio: Nitrates: 2.5 Nitrite: 1 Ammonia: 0 After I added Fritz Zyme 7 Nitrates: 0 Nitrite: 0 Ammonia: 0 Thanks in advance for the help! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Hello @Teacups and welcome to the forums. Very excited to see a new hobbyist and this is a great place to get some help! I do apologize that you're running into some issues and let's dive in to see what could be going on. One of the most common reasons for a cloudy tank is just one that isn't fully developed. As you've shown you do have nitrates in the tank and it does appear it was cycled. Ammonia -->Nitrite-->Nitrate happened and all of the necessary bacteria involved should be in the tank. Worst case scenario, maybe you have nitrate in the tap water and potentially that's what you were seeing in the testing. If you can, please follow up with test results on your tap water. On 10/22/2023 at 5:57 PM, Teacups said: After adding the med trio, about ~24 hours later my tank got super cloudy and my guppies were all at the top of the tank looking for air. I ran out and bought an airstone, which seemed to help and they are no longer up at the top of the tank. Great to hear. Whenever you add meds or salt to a tank the water changed viscosity. It gets more dense. This just means it isn't as easy for the fish to oxygenate themselves and the best step to help with that is to increase aeration using an air stone. It's awesome the fish responded well to this and it should help with future treatments, reducing stress during those treatments. On 10/22/2023 at 5:57 PM, Teacups said: Where did I mess up? Should I change my tank water and do a fish-in cycle...? Or should I just wait it out and let the medicine do its thing? The main question I would ask is about your filtration setup. How is it setup and how strong is the bacteria in that filter. There's a few things I've noticed in my own experience keeping fish. Ultimately, you want strong, resilient bacteria for your biological side. If you do lose bacteria, which is very normal, new bacteria replaces it. Stronger bacterial colonies means the tank handles that stress better and the new bacteria can grow quicker. This could be as simple as oxygenation, surface texture in the media that you're using in the tank, or just having the right order of your filtration to keep the media clean. ....so, with the explanation of why out of the way, that's likely what happened. Meds were added and the viscosity changed, which led to oxygenation changes, and that led to issues where you see bacteria in the water column (cloudy water). If you don't see things improve over time with the added air stone in there, then let's revisit filtration and see if there's anything missing or a way to improve the strength and survivability of the bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 Thank you for your response @nabokovfan87!! I will test my tap water this morning and share back. this morning, my tank is much less cloudy but now I see columnaris on one of my female guppies. She has a big white fuzzy patch on her back. since I have meds already in the tank should I leave her, or better to pull her out into a separate container and dose her again with something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick-In-Of-TheSea Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) When I use maracyn, I usually develop an ammonia reading because it kills the bacteria on the filter. Ammonia then leads to nitrite. I use Prime and Fritz Zyme 7 if I am mid treatment and can't justify a water change because it would mess up dosing. I monitor the fish closely to ensure there is no stress. Prime will detoxify ammonia or nitrite even if you have a reading. But it will have to be redosed every day because those effects wear off. Edited October 23, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 Update on testing this morning. my tank is still showing 0 for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, but one of my fish has a white fuzzy patch on her back. my tap water shows 0 for ammonia and nitrite, and 5 nitrate All tests done with the API master kit. should I redone any meds or leave the tank be for now? Should I add Fritz Complete or Fritz Zyme 7? I read that if one fish has columnaris, that you have to treat the whole tank. So wondering if I should redoes Maracyn… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 On 10/23/2023 at 6:44 AM, Teacups said: since I have meds already in the tank should I leave her, or better to pull her out into a separate container and dose her again with something? There are some diseases where you "treat the tank" as much as the fish itself. I believe columnaris falls into that category. I will let @Chick-In-Of-TheSea @Colu and @Odd Duck chime in on that one though as they will have experience with the disease moreso than myself. From my experience I believe columnaris spreads pretty quickly from one fish to the next. If the fish is sick, showing weakness, absolutely pull it to QT because you don't want other fish to eat or peck at it. On 10/23/2023 at 7:44 AM, Teacups said: should I redone any meds or leave the tank be for now? Should I add Fritz Complete or Fritz Zyme 7? I read that if one fish has columnaris, that you have to treat the whole tank. So wondering if I should redoes Maracyn… White + Fuzzy is usually fungal. It could be a secondary infection. If you can try to get a video for us or photos. For the sake of clarity. what treatments are in the tank right now, if any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick-In-Of-TheSea Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 I would describe columnaris as “a dull patch”. Flat, not fuzzy. Grayish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 On 10/23/2023 at 3:44 PM, Teacups said: Update on testing this morning. my tank is still showing 0 for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, but one of my fish has a white fuzzy patch on her back. my tap water shows 0 for ammonia and nitrite, and 5 nitrate All tests done with the API master kit. should I redone any meds or leave the tank be for now? Should I add Fritz Complete or Fritz Zyme 7? I read that if one fish has columnaris, that you have to treat the whole tank. So wondering if I should redoes Maracyn… Can you take a picture of the fish with suspected columnaris it will help with a diagnosis 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Posted October 24, 2023 Author Share Posted October 24, 2023 I moved this little lady to a QT tank setup this morning. She def has a white patch on her head. Tried to get some photos... did the best I could. You can see its more on one side of her head than the other. When I had her in the display thank with the other guppies, I dosed the med trio (purchased all the meds from Aq. Coop! Maracyn, Paracleanse, and Ich-X) for a 15 gallon tank, which is what caused that big bacteria bloom yesterday. This morning when I moved her to the separate tank, I added in another dose of Maracyn, but for the smaller 3-gallon tank size I have her in now. Appreciate you all so much for helping a newbie! I really want my fish to be ok. I'm very worried, so having you all here to help advise if such a help to me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) Does look like columnaris it's a gram negative bacterial infections that spreads more quickly at temperatures over 75 and can kill in 24hr to 7 days depending on the stain the most effective treatment is a combination of kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone following this treatment plan sometimes it can take two full course of treatment back to back @Teacups Edited October 24, 2023 by Colu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick-In-Of-TheSea Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) On 10/23/2023 at 9:36 PM, Colu said: Does look like columnaris Agreed. I have used Colu’s treatment and it works. Sometimes it needs to be repeated if the illness is stubborn. Do not share nets, equipment, siphons between tanks or you could infect the other tanks. You can disinfect your equipment in a mild bleach/water solution in a bucket. Then rinse well with tap water. I also dip the stuff in dechlorinated water just in case some bleach (aka chlorine) didn’t rinse off. Edited October 24, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Posted October 24, 2023 Author Share Posted October 24, 2023 Since I have her separate, should I treat only her for now or treat both tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Posted October 24, 2023 Author Share Posted October 24, 2023 Here's another update from this morning. I checked my main tank. The other fish looked good still, except a white lady had a red spot and red lips, and she was acting lethargic. When I netted her, she even didn't try to move out of the way at all. So I pulled her into the QT tank with the other sick girl, since I didnt have any other place to put her. I'll share some photos of the two sick ladies, as well as a video of everyone else in the other tank. I added the med trio on Saturday in the main tank, so in a few days I should be in a place I can do a water change in the main tank, since the water looks pretty ugly and dark. I have the meds for the QT tank on order to arrive by Thursday. No stores near me have the right medicine, so hopefully I can keep yellow sick lady alive until they arrive. In the meantime, I went ahead and added another dose of Maracyn to the QT tank when I added the white sick lady in there. I'm feeling pretty down about all of this. I have a lot of learning still to do, and I hate that these poor fish are part of that learning process. This is my first attempt at fish, and I had the main tank cycling for a long time and consistently had great readings for over a week before adding fish. I guess next time I will be more patient before adding a fish, and I'll start fish out in a QT tank even before moving them into an empty tank. Appreciate you all for helping me with this, @Colu @Chick-In-Of-TheSea @nabokovfan87. Hopefully I can save as many of these guppies as possible...! Not sure why my photos are posting upside down... I'm also confused about the red gills. Both my main tank and QT tank are testing at 0 ammonia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 On 10/24/2023 at 3:17 PM, Teacups said: Here's another update from this morning. I checked my main tank. The other fish looked good still, except a white lady had a red spot and red lips, and she was acting lethargic. When I netted her, she even didn't try to move out of the way at all. So I pulled her into the QT tank with the other sick girl, since I didnt have any other place to put her. I'll share some photos of the two sick ladies, as well as a video of everyone else in the other tank. I added the med trio on Saturday in the main tank, so in a few days I should be in a place I can do a water change in the main tank, since the water looks pretty ugly and dark. I have the meds for the QT tank on order to arrive by Thursday. No stores near me have the right medicine, so hopefully I can keep yellow sick lady alive until they arrive. In the meantime, I went ahead and added another dose of Maracyn to the QT tank when I added the white sick lady in there. I'm feeling pretty down about all of this. I have a lot of learning still to do, and I hate that these poor fish are part of that learning process. This is my first attempt at fish, and I had the main tank cycling for a long time and consistently had great readings for over a week before adding fish. I guess next time I will be more patient before adding a fish, and I'll start fish out in a QT tank even before moving them into an empty tank. Appreciate you all for helping me with this, @Colu @Chick-In-Of-TheSea @nabokovfan87. Hopefully I can save as many of these guppies as possible...! Not sure why my photos are posting upside down... I'm also confused about the red gills. Both my main tank and QT tank are testing at 0 ammonia... What I would do is add aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 1 gallon to your quarantine tank till the kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs arrive columnaris can cause mouth and body rot I think that's what the second fish is showing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Posted October 24, 2023 Author Share Posted October 24, 2023 Thank you! I will do that now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick-In-Of-TheSea Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 On 10/24/2023 at 10:17 AM, Teacups said: Not sure why my photos are posting upside down. You can crop them a tiny bit and it should fix it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Posted October 25, 2023 Author Share Posted October 25, 2023 Update from today: this morning the white fish with the bleeding died. The sick with with columnaris still looks the same. I’ve been dozing with Maracyn and aquarium salt while I wait for the meds to arrive. Last night the jungle fizz arrived so I went ahead and put a bundle fizz tab in the water along with some Maracyn. the Kanaplex is arriving tomorrow. I’m thinking I may need to do a water change before starting the dosing guidance @Columentioned above, just to start with clean water. The main tank with the 5other guppies are still looking and acting ok. I’m hoping that they’ll make it till Saturday when my 7 days of the Med Trio on that tank is complete and I can do my 30% water change and start feeding. 🤞🤞🤞 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 Update: the yellow female guppy is still swimming and trying. She still has her patch on her head. She had about 3 days of Maracyn. Today the Kanaplex and Jungle Fizz arrived, so I did a water change and started the new meds. @Colushe hasn’t eaten in almost a week. Can she eat with this treatment, or should I keep fasting her? the guppies remaining in the main tank are still doing well. Saturday is the completion of the med trio, and I’m sure they are excited for a water change! I’ve had to add FritzZyme7 to co trial ammonia and nitrites, but they are still active and seem happy. 🤞🤞🤞 wish us luck! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 On 10/26/2023 at 4:47 PM, Teacups said: @Colushe hasn’t eaten in almost a week. Can she eat with this treatment, or should I keep fasting her? she can eat. At least once every 3-4 days would be my recommendation. If you can feed every other day, keep strength up, it should help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 On 10/27/2023 at 12:47 AM, Teacups said: Update: the yellow female guppy is still swimming and trying. She still has her patch on her head. She had about 3 days of Maracyn. Today the Kanaplex and Jungle Fizz arrived, so I did a water change and started the new meds. @Colushe hasn’t eaten in almost a week. Can she eat with this treatment, or should I keep fasting her? the guppies remaining in the main tank are still doing well. Saturday is the completion of the med trio, and I’m sure they are excited for a water change! I’ve had to add FritzZyme7 to co trial ammonia and nitrites, but they are still active and seem happy. 🤞🤞🤞 wish us luck! I usually feed a small amount once a day during treatment or every other day as @nabokovfan87suggested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Posted October 28, 2023 Author Share Posted October 28, 2023 Update: the yellow female guppy is still swimming and trying. She still has her patch on her head. She is on day 3 of the Kanaplex and Jungle Fizz treatment. Her spot is still on her head, so hoping to see it start to heal up soon. Yesterday it looked like it was peeling almost, so I am hopeful that means it’s healing. Photos are from today. The main tank guppies are still looking good! Today I changed 30% of the water per Aquarium Coop’s instructions on the led trio. So excited that they made it through strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 It can take a couple of weeks to fully heal even after successful treatment it's important to monitor for at least 4 weeks to make sure the infection is dealt with before adding it back to main tank to avoid any potential issues further down the line @Teacups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Posted October 28, 2023 Author Share Posted October 28, 2023 Thanks @Colu! One question. How do I know if I need to re-treat? She seems to be a tiny bit more active today. I’ve seen her swim out in other areas of the quarantine tank, so she def seems a little more well. I guess I finish these 5 days and then monitor her for worsening symptoms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 On 10/28/2023 at 12:09 PM, Teacups said: One question. How do I know if I need to re-treat? She seems to be a tiny bit more active today. I’ve seen her swim out in other areas of the quarantine tank, so she def seems a little more well. I guess I finish these 5 days and then monitor her for worsening symptoms? Directions for kanaplex say that if there's "no signs of stress" you can follow up with back to back treatments. One "treatment" being three doses. For me, whenever I use kanaplex I always do the minimum back to back treatments. One thing to note as you said that you did the water change. You're treating with kanaplex, some bacterial meds build up over time. Whether you're using maracyn or kanaplex, the directions specifically state when to change water because of that reason. That just means, if you're treating for an active issue (not preventative) you want to follow the directions on the box as best as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 On 10/28/2023 at 8:09 PM, Teacups said: Thanks @Colu! One question. How do I know if I need to re-treat? She seems to be a tiny bit more active today. I’ve seen her swim out in other areas of the quarantine tank, so she def seems a little more well. I guess I finish these 5 days and then monitor her for worsening symptoms? All depends on how she progressing after the 5 days do a 50% water change and run active carbon for 24hr to remove any remaining medication and follow up with a second course of kanaplex and jungal fungus clear if your not seeing much improvement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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