Ivanacara adoketa

[monterey]

Anyone here raised fry from this fish? 

[TheSwissAquarist]

I expect it would be rather similar to Apistos, seeing as they’re both roughly the same size. BBS (baby brine shrimp) & tubifex should work fine. 
Superb colors! Are they rare? 

[SkaleyAquatics]

I can not help you with your question but I came across these and maculata the other day and was stunned. Really want to get these as soon as i can. It does appear they need soft water to spawn, I've seen reports of them being in 3.5-4.0 pH in the wild

Edited September 28, 2023 by SkaleyAquatics

[tolstoy21]

I have kept this species for a few years and have gotten it to spawn many times. However, in all those clutches of eggs, I have only ever produced one viable fry (and that developed a swim bladder issue as it matured). 

As for getting these fish to spawn.  They do require a low Ph and negligible TDS to get them to spawn. I kept the Ph in my setup between 4.5 - 5.5.  Water changes that dropped the TDS lower, as well as temp, seems to trigger them (along with good feeding), in my experience. But this is more anecdotal/observational on my part, so it could also have been coincidence. 

Getting the eggs to hatch and the fry to not die, still working on that. I have read that this requires very clean water and that some people run UV sterilizers in their tanks to kill off any bacteria present.

This fish I have been working with are F2 from wild. I'm not sure if there are lines of tank-bred-for-generations specimens of this fish that will breed in anything but blackwater. Maybe? Just dunno.

I did give up on breeding these a little while back, and for now just keep them for enjoyment. I'll try again some day, but for now I'm busy working with some other fish.

This is the only detailed, written report of breeding these that I was able to come across on the internet -- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/2b5f57b8-7625-49c7-8583-4977e78fc7c5/downloads/WetPet Fall 2013.pdf?ver=1613767210730

Good luck! One of my favorite fish!

Edited September 28, 2023 by tolstoy21

[tolstoy21]

It took this person 107 spawns to get fry!  Too bad they don't give detail on how they accomplished it.  😞

 

 

On 9/28/2023 at 1:57 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

I expect it would be rather similar to Apistos, seeing as they’re both roughly the same size. BBS

These guys are tad larger than most apistos. The males can get to about 5".

In my experience, they don't really seem interested in eating BBS. I fed mine culled neocaridina shrimp and/or live California blackworms when I wanted to fatten them for spawning.

Edited September 28, 2023 by tolstoy21

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:03 PM, tolstoy21 said:

bad they don't give detail on how they accomplished it. 

The terra-cotta pots may be the trick, or some other flat stone for them to spawn on like with GBRs. 
They did also mention that it caught them by surprise 🤷‍♂️. 

[tolstoy21]

On 9/28/2023 at 10:49 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

The terra-cotta pots may be the trick, or some other flat stone for them to spawn on like with GBRs. 
They did also mention that it caught them by surprise 🤷‍♂️. 

Well they spawned a lot for that YouTuber, 107 times he claims, but I'm going to guess that, like me, none of those resulted in fry.

[SkaleyAquatics]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:56 AM, tolstoy21 said:

I have kept this species for a few years and have gotten it to spawn many times. However, in all those clutches of eggs, I have only ever produced one viable fry (and that developed a swim bladder issue as it matured). 

When you say this do you mean that only 1 ever hatched? 

Where the eggs being eating, fungusing or not fertilized?

This information might lead to a resolution. 

[tolstoy21]

On 9/28/2023 at 2:25 PM, SkaleyAquatics said:

When you say this do you mean that only 1 ever hatched? 

Where the eggs being eating, fungusing or not fertilized?

This information might lead to a resolution. 

I believe the eggs were largely unfertilized.

After a decent number of failed spawns, I started pulling the eggs and hatching them in a breeder box. This is when I was able to get a few eggs to the wiggler stage a few separate times. Only one fish has even reached being a juvenile. 

However, in the meantime, my female has passed away (very recently), so no more breeding attempts until I acquire some more fish. Next go round, I think I will acquire a small group, rather than a pair.

[monterey]

I managed to save about 100 fry but 10% are belly sliders.  I wonder what's causing this to happen. 

[tolstoy21]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:02 PM, monterey said:

I managed to save about 100 fry but 10% are belly sliders.  I wonder what's causing this to happen. 

That's what the one that I had survived was, a 'belly slider'.

When breeding Odessa Barbs, a decent number will turn out to be belly sliders if you don't lower the water level for the fry when they are born. You then slowly increment the depth by an inch or so at a time over the course of a month. Greg Sage details this in his videos of breeding Odessas. 

I've bred Odessas more than a few times and used this method with them. However, since I have never bred them without taking Sage's advice I cannot 100% attest to the absolute need to do this. But given Greg's experience, and the amount of time he put into perfecting his line, I trust that it corrected the issue for Odessas.

[monterey]

That's really odd.  I hatched and raised this first batch in a very low water level already, 7".  I can't imagine water level in the wild being lower than this.  I'm going to soften the water even more this time and see what happens.  They just laid again today. 

[tolstoy21]

On 9/28/2023 at 10:20 PM, monterey said:

That's really odd.  I hatched and raised this first batch in a very low water level already, 7".  I can't imagine water level in the wild being lower than this.  I'm going to soften the water even more this time and see what happens.  They just laid again today. 

Yeah I don't understand how or why it works for the barbs. I lower the water to 4" for the first week after the parents spawn.

I also had the same thought: I doubt these fish spawn in 4" of water exclusively. But given Greg Sage's many years of extensive experience, I take it as fact that this step is required to reduce the amount of Odessa fry with swim bladder issues.

Every time I spawn apistos, I get a very small percentage of belly sliders, but the number is so low that it's of no concern.

Lowering the water level could be irrelevant advice for Ivanacara, but just figured I'd pass it along. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by tolstoy21

[Colu]

I can't remember were I read it  there a possible link between methylene blue swim bladder issues in fry apparently angel fish fry are particularly effected in the first couple of days after hatching have significantly higher level of swim bladder issues when exposed to methylene blue as it has mutagenic properties they recommend water changing out the methylene blue as soon as your the Frist fry hatch to avoid potential issues this could be the causes of what your seeing @monterey

Edited October 1, 2023 by Colu

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 9/29/2023 at 10:18 PM, tolstoy21 said:

lower the water to 4" for the first week after the parents spawn.

Would that also work for other barbs?? 

P.S. Some of your advice led to me being able to breed my Zebra Danios; thanks so so much! 

[monterey]

I started with 150 eggs.  I lost about 30 eggs due to fungus.  The rest did hatch but at free swimming stage I already noticed some had trouble swimming.  I suspect these are the ones that never developed a proper swim bladder.   Today I did some culling and removed about 20 belly sliders.  I can see why these are still rare in the hobby.  I don't know if the air bladder issue will develop with the normal ones but I want to start with all perfect ones to see if any will develop the issue later.  As for now I still have about 80 healthy fry.  

[TheSwissAquarist]

Congrats! Can’t wait to watch these guys grow up! 

[tolstoy21]

On 10/1/2023 at 1:25 PM, monterey said:

I started with 150 eggs.  I lost about 30 eggs due to fungus.  The rest did hatch but at free swimming stage I already noticed some had trouble swimming.  I suspect these are the ones that never developed a proper swim bladder.   Today I did some culling and removed about 20 belly sliders.  I can see why these are still rare in the hobby.  I don't know if the air bladder issue will develop with the normal ones but I want to start with all perfect ones to see if any will develop the issue later.  As for now I still have about 80 healthy fry.  

Jealous! This is one of my favorite fishes and one I have wanted to breed, but have failed at many times.  😞