Best fish for no-filter setups

[Scaperoot]

Which fish do best in a no-filter setup? I jut watched a video from Tanner (Serpa Design) where he sets up a no-filter guppy tank, and I was wondering if cherry barbs or white cloud minnows would do well in a similar setup. My wife and I dream of doing something like this some day, but I want to make sure the fish can thrive.

 

Here's the video I'm referencing:

 

[Lennie]

minnows and barbs enjoy high oxygen content. I don't think they would "thrive". I think you can easily add a waterfall to this and it would still look great, and you wouldn't need to deal with oxygen content stress and stuff.

Nature does not sit in a cube with three swords below. Idk how this sort of "ecosystem" understanding works, or how this is supposed to be an ecosystem to be fair.

 

Could someone please enlighten me what provides all these creatures an okay amount of oxygen content in such setup with 3 amazon sword only? 🤔

[Guppysnail]

On 8/14/2023 at 4:28 PM, Pepere said:

remember there used to be a surface area per inch of fish reccomendation back in the day before people had air driven filtration.

Back in the day when I was much much younger the rule of thumb for us was more surface area than water depth. If it was deeper than the surface was wide and long we had issues. 

As long as you follow that rule and do not overplant least killifish do wonderful in a setup like that. Overplanting and overstocking leads to night time oxygen depletion as mentioned. I gave my neighbor a bunch of Herterandria Formosa least killi fish and he has been running them for over a year in a similar setup.  You just need to closely monitor stocking because they are livebearers  

Edit to add. I currently have an unintended neocaridina colony in an unfiltered, unheated no airstone container running like that. 

[gardenman]

Obviously you don't want large South American cichlids in a no filter tank. You'd want to keep such a tank lightly stocked with smaller fish used to living in ponds where there's little water flow. (Depending on the size of the tank. A really large unfiltered tank could house a few larger fish.)

Why do it? Why not? In the video it's not just some sword plants. The terrestrial plants (spathiphyllum, spider plant, and others) appear to have roots into the water to remove nitrates and ammonia. It's largely a replica of how nature works only on a much smaller scale. A filter-less tank solves the issues of the filter breaking down. It's a silent tank if noise is an issue. Once established, there's not a lot that could go wrong. If you do "normal" maintenance on the tank (water changes, etc.), it's doable. Many fish live in small ponds, even puddles (some killifish), in nature.

[TOtrees]

I have a world of respect for Tanner, but I do feel that a lot of his designs are short-lived, made for clicks/show, tear it down after a few weeks or months to reuse the gear sort of things. Sure it looks great after the water clears, but how does it survive 2, 6 or 12 months on? But I’m absolutely not bashing him or his channel, lots of kind supporting words below.

my (good) experience with members here is that there is genuine care for things like sustainability, ethics, environment, etc. I do think (I know) there are no-filter setups out there that work, but I have no idea if this creation (the one by Tanner) will become one of those. They take time and patience to develop.

I will say many of the successful ones have a lot of things in common: lots of plants, deeper substrate, low stocking but high proportion of cleanup crew, higher light levels (to power plant growth), not to mention, usually, an experienced owner/keeper. And time. To set up, to establish, to tweak and modify and settle into a balance. 

I want to give Tanner the benefit of the doubt, it’s my hope that this set up does remain sustainable and works as a no filter tank over the long term. Obstacles include guppy population growth (not an issue if only 1 sex) establishment or plants and their growth/maintenance. Time will tell. I hope we get to see updates.

Regardless (or in addition to), I love and support how Tanner, through his beautiful designs and well explained execution, inspires people to try new things. I’m always left with the feeling of “I could do that!“.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:07 PM, TOtrees said:

I will say many of the successful ones have a lot of things in common: lots of plants, deeper substrate, low stocking but high proportion of cleanup crew, higher light levels (to power plant growth)

My no filter tank is exactly this. 1/4” dirted bottom with a gravel cap. Pearl Weed has taken over and is a tall carpet when trimmed and a giant jungle when not trimmed. Lots of snails, 2 Amano shrimp, and like 6 nano fish when I have fish in it. This tank pearls more than any other tank that I have. 
 

Why no filter? Because it sounded fun, new, and exciting and I wanted to see what it was like. 
 

Am I rushing to do more dirted no filter tanks? Absolutely not. Most tanks of mine have 2 filters. 
 

It’s simply fun to try new things. It works, keeps rockin’ and I keep enjoying it. 

[Lennie]

On 8/15/2023 at 4:34 AM, gardenman said:

In the video it's not just some sword plants. The terrestrial plants (spathiphyllum, spider plant, and others) appear to have roots into the water to remove nitrates and ammonia.

My question was about oxygenation, not consumption of stuff in the water column tho. As you mentioned, those plants only have their roots in the tank. They may help with filtering but what about oxygenation? 

 

Am I mistaken, or 3 amazon swords is what can potentially provide oxygen as plants to that many guppies,snails,etc.in that setup? What other plants or sources are supposed to provide oxygen there?

To me, before I would try such setup, I would expect a year update or so at least to make sure it works. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Lennie

[beastie]

While I did never reach the no filter tank, I use sponge airfilters in 90% of my tanks and would fear removing it, the no filter movement is strong here in CZ. There is a guy who has been vocalizing it the past 20 years he has been doing fishkeeping. He has 10 tanks, most of them running for years, no gravel vac (like not ever), no filter, loads load loads of plants, some or no light, and he breeds livebearers. Granted not guppies, he specializes in native guppies, like skiffia, xenotoca, limia,.... His tanks are filled to the brim and he sells the population and all are thriving.

It works for him with 10-15% water changes once in a while. Some tanks keepers keep here are running for years with only adding water and never removing it (lidless tanks, evaporation). Best inhabitants for these tanks are shrimp, that like stable water conditions and hate rapid changes.

Overall a good rule of thumb for a filterless tank would be to ask yourself the following questions - does the fish need rapid moving water in nature, or does it like stagnant no flow? Does it need oxygen content and massive water changes?

For example my shrimp + indostomus tank is almost no filter. I have an airline and half the usual size sponge, so like 4x4 cm and a super super low airpump, so all it does is just bubbles and creates a minimalflow in the tank. The fish hate movement, are from swamps, the shrimp do not mind, the tank works. My new clown killifish tank could maybe work without the filter as well, given I have 6 nano fish in 40 liters, and the fish hates flow and lives in heated puddles in Africa. 

 

No filter tanks are a good ecosystem game to play for experienced fishkeepers. Most have some rules, almost all should be walstad, with plants specializing in substrate feeding + one plant that leaches nutrients from the water column. And UNDERSTOCKED. But they also require up to 4 months of setup without fish to make the tank stable enough 🙂 

[Lennie]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:51 AM, beastie said:

While I did never reach the no filter tank, I use sponge airfilters in 90% of my tanks and would fear removing it, the no filter movement is strong here in CZ. There is a guy who has been vocalizing it the past 20 years he has been doing fishkeeping. He has 10 tanks, most of them running for years, no gravel vac (like not ever), no filter, loads load loads of plants, some or no light, and he breeds livebearers. Granted not guppies, he specializes in native guppies, like skiffia, xenotoca, limia,.... His tanks are filled to the brim and he sells the population and all are thriving.

It works for him with 10-15% water changes once in a while. Some tanks keepers keep here are running for years with only adding water and never removing it (lidless tanks, evaporation). Best inhabitants for these tanks are shrimp, that like stable water conditions and hate rapid changes.

Overall a good rule of thumb for a filterless tank would be to ask yourself the following questions - does the fish need rapid moving water in nature, or does it like stagnant no flow? Does it need oxygen content and massive water changes?

For example my shrimp + indostomus tank is almost no filter. I have an airline and half the usual size sponge, so like 4x4 cm and a super super low airpump, so all it does is just bubbles and creates a minimalflow in the tank. The fish hate movement, are from swamps, the shrimp do not mind, the tank works. My new clown killifish tank could maybe work without the filter as well, given I have 6 nano fish in 40 liters, and the fish hates flow and lives in heated puddles in Africa. 

 

No filter tanks are a good ecosystem game to play for experienced fishkeepers. Most have some rules, almost all should be walstad, with plants specializing in substrate feeding + one plant that leaches nutrients from the water column. And UNDERSTOCKED. But they also require up to 4 months of setup without fish to make the tank stable enough 🙂 

What's his tanks look like in terms of plant stocking within the water column beastie? Can you share if possible, I'm curious. Maybe with good amount of plants, mixture of fast growers, it may be doable but this setup in the video seemed lacking plants to me. Ive never tried but tanks setup with walstad method seems to be full of plants usually from what I see.

 

Also plants consume oxygen during night time right? so how, for example 8 hour lighting can make up for all stocking to have enough oxygen content, including plants themself?

 

Also during hot weather, the temp of tanks raises, so the oxygen content lowers even more. Or in case of using medication for example?

 

Id like to learn if somebody can explain it well based on their experience

 

[beastie]

While I know the site is in czech, the tanks are there, the plant stocks are there,the fish are there too and he even made some videos 🙂

https://rybicky.net/profil/39356

[gardenman]

On 8/15/2023 at 3:24 AM, Lennie said:

My question was about oxygenation, not consumption of stuff in the water column tho. As you mentioned, those plants only have their roots in the tank. They may help with filtering but what about oxygenation? 

 

Am I mistaken, or 3 amazon swords is what can potentially provide oxygen as plants to that many guppies,snails,etc.in that setup? What other plants or sources are supposed to provide oxygen there?

To me, before I would try such setup, I would expect a year update or so at least to make sure it works. 

There's also gas exchange at the water surface. Not as much with still water as moving water, but there's still some and enough to accommodate a small fish load. And there might be more water movement than expected with terrestrial plants poking up. Any air movement will have them moving and agitating the water to some extent. Not a lot, but some.

[Scaperoot]

    My takeaway here is that a filter-less setup is possible with the right balance of plants and specific stock. Not something to rush into without considering various factors. I think the setup looks amazing, but I want to know it's sustainable. I'm curious to see how long Tanner keeps this one going. I totally understand why he and MD build and tear down setups so frequently. They only have so many tanks and space, and they need to produce content for revenue. I'll never hate on that. I wouldn't be in the hobby if it wasn't for MD. Thanks for all the input! 

[RennjiDK]

Very small or labyrinth. Either way, just make sure your "ecosystem" really is one capable of substaining what ever you place in the tank.

[Littlefish]

I've run a filterless 75g loaded with endlers and 1 cory outdoors for several years.  Floating plants only as the water turns green and blocks the light. 

Aren't most Walstadt tanks filterless?  I thought this was a well-known style of aquarium keeping. 

[Littlefish]

"Having said that", the pygmy sunfish is tiny and can be kept in small filterless tanks.

[JettsPapa]

On 8/14/2023 at 3:28 PM, Pepere said:

I honestly don’t really understand the appeal of a filterless aquarium.

Can anybody explain what it is one find appealing to it?

The 5.5 gallon tank on my desk at work doesn't have any mechanical filtration or water movement.  I decided to try it so I could keep power usage as low as possible, since I'm not paying for it.  The only thing that uses electricity is the light (it's on a timer; 7:00 am - 3:00 pm).

It's stocked with guppies, shrimp, snails, and a single dwarf crayfish.  It's moderately to heavily planted, leaning more toward heavily, with mostly crypts, along with a few stems of bacopa and pearl weed , and dwarf water lettuce that I think when needed to keep it covering around 50% of the water surface.

Oddly enough, plants like hornwort and pearl weed, that float in my other tanks, don't in this one.  I assume it's because of the lack of water movement, but that's only my best guess.

[Huckleberry]

I dont know any of the science behind any of this but I have a couple indoor " ponds" that are filterless and I have not ran into any issue yet. Cut the top off of an old pool filter.This one has a bunch of Molly's breeding in it. Sand substrate, plants are baby's or cuttings from other tanks. Old light I had laying around. I guess we will see what happens. 

[JettsPapa]

On 8/16/2023 at 10:01 AM, Huckleberry said:

I dont know any of the science behind any of this but I have a couple indoor " ponds" that are filterless and I have not ran into any issue yet

I didn't even think of that.  I have four tubs outside (roughly 24" diameter and deep) with guppies and shrimp.  None of them have any mechanical filtration or water movement either.  I do water changes around 40% once a week or so, but I depend on plants the rest of the time.  They all have guppy grass, anacharis, and/or hornwort (they don't have any substrate, other than whatever leaves fall into them and settle to the bottom).

I take the guppies out when the night temperatures get down to the mid-50's, but the shrimp stay in them year-round, and they don't get any attention during the winter.  They go months without water changes, but of course they get fresh water when it rains.

[TOtrees]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:38 AM, JettsPapa said:

I didn't even think of that.  I have four tubs outside (roughly 24" diameter and deep) with guppies and shrimp.  None of them have any mechanical filtration or water movement either.  I do water changes around 40% once a week or so, but I depend on plants the rest of the time.  They all have guppy grass, anacharis, and/or hornwort (they don't have any substrate, other than whatever leaves fall into them and settle to the bottom).

My tubs are the opposite - sponge filters but no water changes 🙂  I use hornwort and water lettuce to remove nitrates. Here's my water change equivalent (aka nitrate export) from this past weekend LOL

[JettsPapa]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:47 AM, TOtrees said:

My tubs are the opposite - sponge filters but no water changes 🙂  I use hornwort and water lettuce to remove nitrates. Here's my water change equivalent (aka nitrate export) from this past weekend LOL

I could probably get away without the water changes, or at least do them less often, but I use that water to water plants.