Brine shrimp

[Marvin Gattis]

I love you're products but I seem to be having some trouble raising my brine shrimp. This is my 5th try and they all seem to die after the 3rd day. Water temp= 75-80 degrees, PH= 80 & up, Water SPGR= 1.025-1.026, Food= Spirulina.

            What am I doing wrong ????????????

            THANX

[Cory]

Hi Marvin,

I'm not sure how you're trying to raise them? We sell eggs to hatch and feed, if you're trying to raise to adulthood, are you doing it in like a pond or large aquarium?

[Marvin Gattis]

I'm using you're Ziss  breeder and you're eggs. I'm using a bubbler, thermometer and a heater.

[Maximus]

Why are you running the hatcher for so long? You use it for about 36 hours, feed the brine shrimp to your tanks, then rinse the hatcher out. It sounds like you are trying to raise the brine shrimp as a pet, which is not what the hatcher is for.

[Marvin Gattis]

I was trying to raise them to adult size for my bigger fish. Surly, they should live longer than 3 days. If they are fed and the water temp is ok, why wouldn't they live longer ??? 

[TOtrees]

How much eggs are you using? The standard/typical instructions for hatching bbs to feed won’t work well past around 48 hrs due to the high number/density of brine shrimps. It gets them hatched, but in aquarium lingo after 48hrs you’re massive overstocked and the only reason it doesn’t crash is that it gets harvested and fed to the fish. But since you’re not doing that…

Try cutting back to a teeny tiny pinch of eggs, and also dial back the aeration after they hatch. Still want it moving, but not roiling. You might also want to decant the hatched bbs to a new/clean water salt solution, to remove shells and unhatched eggs. Feed sparingly. 

Even with all this, if you’re raising more than a few brine shrimp, you’ll want to consider upping the tank-container size. Maybe a 5 gallon pail?

[Maximus]

What sort of large fish isn't eating the "normal" sized baby brine? Genuinely curious since I've got a large angelfish that just vacuums them up.

[Marvin Gattis]

This is probably my 7 time trying to hatch my brine shrimp and nothing seems to be working, so wandering if there my be something wrong with the eggs ????

[Robert Keeney]

On 8/4/2023 at 11:58 PM, Marvin Gattis said:

This is probably my 7 time trying to hatch my brine shrimp and nothing seems to be working, so wandering if there my be something wrong with the eggs ????

Eggs can be bad. I recently ordered some shrimp eggs that were dead when I got them. nearly zero hatched. I suspect they got cooked sitting in a truck in the 100-degree heat.

[Maximus]

Have you stopped at the 36 hour mark to check if they're alive at that point? When are you feeding the spirulina?

[TOtrees]

On 8/5/2023 at 1:47 AM, Robert Keeney said:

I suspect they got cooked sitting in a truck in the 100-degree heat.

I can’t speak for ACO eggs, but the brand I buy (in 1lb tins), I once missed the delivery notification and it sat in my full sun community mailbox for a full day in high summer. At the time, i estimated the temp was like 130f at the max. In their natural habitat, brine shrimp make cockroaches look like survival lightweights. The extremes of temp and salinity they need to tolerate to have not died out over the eons are crazy. I’m not saying it’s not possible that they got cooked, but it’s more likely that something else is going on, may be due to processing, handling, delivery/transit/shipping, I don’t know… I’m not saying it’s not possible that they got cooked, but it’s more likely that something else is going on, may be due to processing, handling, delivery/and transit/shipping, I don’t know…

I’ve read elsewhere (other threads)  that with the ACO eggs in particular, they can be sensitive to an inadequately cleaned hatching container. Ie it needs a good scrubbing between each use.

[Robert Keeney]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:59 PM, TOtrees said:

I can’t speak for ACO eggs, but the brand I buy (in 1lb tins), I once missed the delivery notification and it sat in my full sun community mailbox for a full day in high summer. At the time, i estimated the temp was like 130f at the max. In their natural habitat, brine shrimp make cockroaches look like survival lightweights. The extremes of temp and salinity they need to tolerate to have not died out over the eons are crazy. I’m not saying it’s not possible that they got cooked, but it’s more likely that something else is going on, may be due to processing, handling, delivery/transit/shipping, I don’t know… I’m not saying it’s not possible that they got cooked, but it’s more likely that something else is going on, may be due to processing, handling, delivery/and transit/shipping, I don’t know…

I’ve read elsewhere (other threads)  that with the ACO eggs in particular, they can be sensitive to an inadequately cleaned hatching container. Ie it needs a good scrubbing between each use.

These were Aquarium Coop eggs. They were dark brown. I have used them before and had zero issues and I don't scrub bottles after each hatch. However, I do rotate them occasionally and bleach the bottles that I change out.

 

[Marvin Gattis]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:05 AM, Maximus said:

Have you stopped at the 36 hour mark to check if they're alive at that point? When are you feeding the spirulina?

They are dead at that point, there is no movement at all..................

[Marvin Gattis]

On 8/5/2023 at 10:27 AM, Robert Keeney said:

These were Aquarium Coop eggs. They were dark brown. I have used them before and had zero issues and I don't scrub bottles after each hatch. However, I do rotate them occasionally and bleach the bottles that I change out.

 

I think you may be correct about being cooked. I've read enough about brine shrimp to see that they are not that fussy about the living conductions.

      I wash all my equipment vigorously be for I start another hatch. I bring 2 liters of filtered water in the Ziss tank up to 75-80 deg, ad aquarium salt to tank until I

get a SPG of 1.011-1.028, then i check the PH and bring it up to 8.0-9.0, ad a pinch of baking soda. When this all comes together, then i add my brine shrimp. I'm probably adding to many shrimp but it doesn't seem to matter, none hatch...................THANX for the help

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:46 AM, Marvin Gattis said:

I was trying to raise them to adult size for my bigger fish. Surly, they should live longer than 3 days. If they are fed and the water temp is ok, why wouldn't they live longer ??? 

How much water are you using, and how many eggs? I hatch about half a teaspoon of eggs in a liter of water in my Ziss hatchery. If you're really trying to grow them out beyond 36-48 hours (depending on temperature), you're going to want to decant them out of the Ziss and into a tank, tub, or bucket. I would not feed them in the Ziss at all; unless you're hatching a tiny quantity in there, just their normal growth and consumption of their yolk sacks is likely fouling the water already, and adding spirulina isn't helping. Plus I don't think they even have mouths for the first few instars, though I'm not sure about that part.

[Marvin Gattis]

I'm using 2 liters filtered water in my Ziss tank and this a kind of an experiment. If this doesn't work in my Ziss tank by using less shrimp and growing them to adult size, I'm throwing in the towel.....................THANX

[Andy's Fish Den]

I would suspect that around 36 hours or so they are dying. I hatch brine everyday in my fish room using the Ziss hatcher and co-op eggs. I use two liters water, three tablespoons rock salt, and 1-2 teaspoons of eggs depending on how many fry I have in the fish room at that time. I do not check my pH or other parameters of the water, just tap water, salt and eggs. Scrub the hatcher out after every batch. No heater in the hatcher, just room temp which is 76-80* in my fishroom. If I don't hatch near the 36 hour mark, they start dying off, even more so and soon if I do hatch more than one teaspoon. 

Years ago, I worked at a LFS that hatched baby brine as well as raised them to adult to sell to customers. There was a big five gallon hatcher cone that was used daily, and then we would package up the baby brine, and any left over got strained and put into one of several larger vats where they were grown out. These vats were in the neighborhood of 30-40 gallons. The baby brine would get decanted out of the hatching water, separated from egg shells, and put into fresh saltwater. I don't remember salinity levels, but it was kept around 78* and the vats were fed a couple of times a day with a powder that I suspect was a spirulina based stuff.  

If you want to grow some out, I would hatch a small amount in the Ziss hatcher, then once hatched at 24-30 hr mark, decant, and put into a 10 gallon tank of clean fresh saltwater and try that, feeding a spirulina powder. At least that is what I would do if I wanted to raise some out. Come to think of it, I might have to try it sometime this fall or winter when I have a little more time to spend in my fish room. 

 

[Marvin Gattis]

Thanx for the info, believe me, I do welcome the help. I thought maybe the eggs i got from co-op may have been cooked in delivery so i bought a couple of other brands but I'm still having trouble, so i think  i need to change my way of thinking. It seems that after 24-36 hours the water turns milky and foam collects at the top. Don't know if this is normal ??...............................THANX again

[Rube_Goldfish]

"Aquarium salt" means straight sodium chloride with no additives, right? So that shouldn't be an issue. (I use kosher salt, because it's affordable and I keep some in the kitchen anyway. I mention it because ionized table salt isn't a good choice.)

My water starts off clear with the brown cysts bouncing around in the water, circulated by the bubbler. After 24-36 hours, depending on temperature*, the water becomes a sort of opaque brown/orange because of all the freshly hatched brine shrimp.

When you say "milky", do you mean the water loses clarity and becomes opaque, or do you mean it literally becomes white or whiter?

If they are dead and/or unhatched at 24 hours, check at 18 hours, just to see.

The only other thing I can think of is that my first hatch was bad, with a disappointingly low live hatch rate, so I went back to the YouTube tutorials I'd watched.** I decided that my air pump was pushing too much air through the airstone*** and put an air valve on the line and turned down the airflow from 'rolling boil' to 'gentle simmer', and my hatch rate became much improved. I assume the eggs or shrimp were getting battered around too much before and dying, but I guess I don't know for sure. Anyway, if your airflow is too high, maybe you can turn that down?

* I don't use a heater. I start off with 85°F water then just rely on the ambient temperature.

** I can put some links if you want, but it sounds like you've already done that homework.

*** Technically not an airstone but a plastic Ziss air diffuser, but who's counting?

[Marvin Gattis]

Thanx for the help..............I think my problem may be that I was using a digital thermometer with a copper or brass sending unit that my be reacting with the salt water. I'm in the process of running a new batch now. The water just turned whiter almost like the water soured. I went with a regular stone with a valve, works great. Salt was not a problem. I use a heater only to keep temp constant, trying to eliminate all problems. I use a SPG meter for alkalinity, here again trying to eliminate any problems. At this stage of the game, I'm not to concerned about hatch rate, I'm going to use fewer eggs so I can raise to full size in this tank. This is a experiment to see if I can can do it.

                                      THANX for the help

[Rube_Goldfish]

Ah, I hadn't thought of that! I just use the old school glass thermometer that came with the Ziss, so it didn't cross my mind that you might be using something different.

Yeah, I didn't think the salt type or concentration was the problem, and your temperature set-up with a heater is better than my 'well I guess they'll just hatch faster in the summer' approach (I should just stick a heater in there already), so I didn't think that was the issue, either, but your case was a weird one, so I was trying to eliminate potential explanations.

Hopefully removing that digital thermometer ends up solving the issue for you! What's your plan for growing them out? And just out of curiosity, what fish are you growing them out for?

[Marvin Gattis]

I went back to the glass thermometer and started a new batch that looks like it might survive, to early to say. I didn't change anything else so if it works, I can assume that was the problem

I only have a 10 gal. tank and this was another experiment. I have about 5 times what they recommend for fish in a 10 gal. tank and loaded with live plants. I wanted it to be as natural as possible. I have everything from neon tetras to huge molly's and big algae eaters. Everything is working great, haven't had a fish die in over a day 😁 Just kidding.

I just thought that maybe they all could have a great dinner..........................

                                                          THANX for the help  

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 8/14/2023 at 4:25 PM, Marvin Gattis said:

I went back to the glass thermometer and started a new batch that looks like it might survive, to early to say. I didn't change anything else so if it works, I can assume that was the problem

I only have a 10 gal. tank and this was another experiment. I have about 5 times what they recommend for fish in a 10 gal. tank and loaded with live plants. I wanted it to be as natural as possible. I have everything from neon tetras to huge molly's and big algae eaters. Everything is working great, haven't had a fish die in over a day 😁 Just kidding.

I just thought that maybe they all could have a great dinner..........................

                                                          THANX for the help  

Well, how was your hatch with the glass thermometer?!

And I got into hatching live brine shrimp when I had some unexpected spawning, but it's so easy and it's fun to watch the fish really engaged with their food that I feed it out to all my fish (my biggest is an adult male Apistogramma cacatuoides, but still), so hopefully yours liked the fun treat, too.

[Marvin Gattis]

Everything is working out just fine, I'm on my 3 day and they haven't died yet..................

I have come to the conclusion that if I want to raise these to adults, I will have to come up with a formula as to how much eggs and how to feed them without over feeding. All the fish growers never let them get much over 2-3 days old, so there isn't any need to feed them.

But I have an idea and I just need put it in motion to see if it will work, if it don't work, I'll be doing another batch.

                                              THANX