Planning my new tank - I need more experienced help!

[Vicki]

So, I really thought I was ready for this bigger tank, but I swear, everything is going wrong and seems to be far more complicated than it was supposed to be! I’m finding I need a lot of help with several different things. 1) My plants seem to be dying and I don’t know why. 2) My driftwood is growing a disgusting slime on it. 3) The pH is too high (8) and I don’t know how to lower it. And 4) I can’t decide what fish are safe to put together given the darn water parameters I’m going to be living with. I feel like I’m almost in over my head. There are no stores here locally, so there’s nobody here I can call on for help, and I’m already several hundred dollars in at this point - I don’t want to throw them away by just giving up. Is there anyone who can help me? Please? 

[Lennie]

Hey Vicki,

I will try to respond to your questions briefly.

Plants usually melt when they change environment. Also, the plants you buy can be the emersed version. Either way, when they start to grow submersed leaves, and a plant try to get used to their new environment, they commonly melt. It does not exactly mean they are dead. They just lose their old or emersed growth leaves and grow their new leaves.

8.0 ph is kinda on the high upper limit of "normal", but I have successfully kept so many species with this ph. Also, livebearers and snails would love this high ph hard water tank. What's your gh/kh like?

New woods grow slime and it is perfectly normal. If it bothers you, you can brush it of while holding your hose/siphon during water changes but even if left alone, it will disappear over time. Also snails and shrimp love to eat it if you are planning to keep any. So when you are done cycling, maybe add some snails first, so they handle this undesired driftwood look for you, then you gradually start stocking fish slowly. Is your tank cycled yet? 

 

So overall, I understand you are feeling overwhelmed but everything you are currently facing  actually sounds normal so you can feel relieved! ;D 

If you have any questions or expect detailed responses about something, let me know

[NOLANANO]

Is the PH out of your tap also 8? If so, you will either have to learn to live with it or formulate a plan to lower it consistently.  Given that messing with the PH can be pretty tricky, I tend to avoid it.  Since you don't have a LFS, I'll assume RO water is out of the question as well.

If your tap water is more neutral,  then something in the tank is driving up your PH and that would need to be addressed.

What size is the tank? If its big enough, african cichlids like Mbunas or shell dwellers like High PH and have wonderful colors. They eat and uproot plants but it could solve that issue for you too since you won't need them anymore.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:34 AM, Vicki said:

1) My plants seem to be dying and I don’t know why. 2) My driftwood is growing a disgusting slime on it. 3) The pH is too high (8) and I don’t know how to lower it. And 4) I can’t decide what fish are safe to put together

1. Not sure the species of plants but @Lennieis right about melt. From what I can infer so far the parameters in this tank are  different from your smaller tank so the plants will respond differently. Consistent light, pruning, and fertilizing should help their adjustment 

2. Biofilm is a mix of bacterium, fungi, yeast and is naturally occurring, if left on its own often gone within weeks

3. Knowing your tap water parameters, kh, gH, tds, your substrate or rock used can help sort this out as well as your other smaller tank’s setup and parameters. Happy to help with more data provided 

4. I think we should sort out the above and then figure out the fish. Eventually he pH will drift down as detritus and the wood acidify the water, this won’t probably be static 

[Vicki]

Thank you guys so much. I don’t know that I could do this without you. 
First, here’s a dipstick of my new tank… 
I’ve got it at 81 degrees, mostly because it’s so darn hot here and we don’t have A/C - only evaporative cooling (Colorado). So it’s pretty reasonable to maintain a warm tank.
EDIT:  And I’ve not pulled anything from my old tank yet. EVERYTHING has been new so far - or used, but a few years old and pulled from storage. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Vicki

[Vicki]

Oh, and I’m OK with melting - and expected it. But I bought these plants from a LFS and two or three of the of my crypts have melted back to nothing. There’s not a leaf on them. I keep hoping that something will sprout but don’t know if my killer tank has done them in.  On the 10th, the parameters in the big tank were:

• pH          8
• Amm 0.25
• NO2-      0
• NO3-      5

In my established tank, things seem to be going ok, for the most part. Plants growing in the substrate are going gangbusters but plants growing in the water column aren’t quite so happy - even though I keep giving them Easy Green. <shrug> 

• pH        7.2
• Amm     0
• NO2-     0
• NO3-   10 

Oh, and I’m using distilled water rather than tap. I had such a bad time with our tap water my last go round, and since I’ve been using distilled, I’ve had no problems at all.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Vicki

[Vicki]

@Beardedbillygoat1975 I’m not sure if you saw the info I provided, or if it helped. Please let me know if there’s more you need.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

It’s not as hard water as initially thought based on your most up-to-date water test so that helps you. I think the initial pH was before your wood started contributing through tannins and the melt from the plants had its effect on the water and it drifted down. I’d expected it to come in line with your established tank and it did but faster than it d thought so that’s nice. What is your substrate? 

Your nitrates are fairly low and I see from your pic a sword and some floating plants in addition to crypts that have melted. I usually give them 2-4 weeks before writing them off. You can put a root tab in under them and many times they’ll reward you with a new leaf in a week or so. That sword is put two tab every month if you want to get it huge and making babies.  

Swords are nutrient hogs and although they pull from the roots mostly sometimes you have to hit the tank harder with ferts than you’d expect. It’s a very healthy looking sword with new leaves coming up so metabolically it’ll dominate. Plants fight with one another for nutrients so it’s not unusual early on for them to struggle. 

I would ride it out, get your nitrates up to the 20-50 range and see if your plants that melted make a comeback +- some root tabs. 

In terms of stocking, at a pH around 7-7.2 your options are endless really. Other than the hard water fish mentioned - like mbuna which honestly if not wild do fine fine in neutral water - any typical topical or nano fish will appreciate those conditions. @Vickihow many gallons is this? 29? Obviously once the heat wave passes temp will come down and most tropical fish can hang with 81 for a few days with the addition of some added oxygen. As you said between lots of surface agitation and oxygenating the water you can fight through the heat. 

[nabokovfan87]

What is the substrate here?

On 7/14/2023 at 3:49 PM, Vicki said:

Oh, and I’m using distilled water rather than tap.

Based on this, it would be beneficial to have a liquid GH and KH test kit.

The only reason I say this is to have a verification of what the strip is telling you. If your GH is too low the plants will suffer and melt. If it is too high, you can also run into some issues.

[madmark285]

On driftwood...

My wood look great when first set up but after 2 years, it all turned dark brown and looked terrible. What I should have done, covered them with java moss at the start. 

Since you don't have any fish, you could drain the tank and dry start the java moss on the driftwood. Just a suggestion..

[Vicki]

@Beardedbillygoat1975 The water tests are interesting. The test strips show a lower pH but the kits show a higher pH, this happens in both tanks, interestingly. And, again, I’m using distilled water. (As an aside, I’ve been reading about others using Prime with a Python to refill their tanks after cleaning and they haven’t had any problems. If someone here can advocate for that, I may start going that route). Anyway, substrate in my smaller tank (20 gal) is gravel and sand, I have two rocks (of unknown origin that I bought at my LFS) and a piece of driftwood. Basically the same in my new tank (50 gal). Rock and sand substrate mixed up, two pieces of well used driftwood, one new piece of driftwood (that’s the one that’s growing brown stuff and slime), and three larger rocks purchased from the same LFS as above - years ago. I guess my biggest question right now is when do y’all think it’s safe to put fish in here? And when the answer is “Now” I’ll be starting another post about which fish can live together. 

Back to plants … some good news! I gave all the plants lots of root tabs when I planted them - each of the swords got 5 and the crypts got several as they were planted close together. And, I get to tell you that you were right - the crypts are coming back already! I’ve seen tiny leaves on all but one of them, so my hope is being restored. I have some vall in my small tank and I’ll be moving it to my bigger tank now that I think it’s ready, and I’ll be ordering some more plants to start filling in some empty spaces as time goes on. I think I want to give the little ones I have now to have a chance to start growing before I put too many more in there. Anyway, thank you for all your help. Pictures of the babies are below. By the way, I saw you’re an NP. Thank you. I’m a retired L&D RN. Big hearts were never my thing. 😂

@nabokovfan87 Where do I get that liquid test? I’m not sure what to look for. Thanks!

 

@Beardedbillygoat1975My baby crypts!

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:06 AM, Vicki said:

@nabokovfan87 Where do I get that liquid test? I’m not sure what to look for. Thanks!

Amazon, aquarium co-op, local store, etc.

It's a very common test kit, thankfully.

[NOLANANO]

On 7/18/2023 at 11:06 AM, Vicki said:

(As an aside, I’ve been reading about others using Prime with a Python to refill their tanks after cleaning and they haven’t had any problems. If someone here can advocate for that, I may start going that route).

 

 

 

I fill my tank up with my Python and just dose the whole tank with prime and I have never had an issue.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

If you dose some fish food, test a couple hours later and see your NO3 rise, then test the next morning and see it come back to your levels after water change you’re good to add fish. 

Are you going to quarantine the fish? Irene has a great video on the Coop YT on setting up and running a quarantine tank using a food safe tote. This has been my go to method before I had a fishroom. You’ve worked hard and I’d hate for you and your plants to have a setback if you had to dose the whole thing with antibiotics or parasitic treatment. 

In terms of stocking, if you have an average pH less than 7.5, hardness is middle of the road I’d say you can go with any of the typical tetras, danios, barbs etc in terms of schooling and shoaling fish. I would opt to go with your schooling/shoaling fish first along with perhaps a hardy bottom dweller. Then I’d wait a month or two, establish the tank and the fish, let it mature and then put in your next wave. 

Your test kit and strips - in general when used based on the package directions to the T the liquid test kit is superior with specificity and margin for error in its favor. Day in day out and as a first test strips are super handy. I’d say use the liquid to set a baseline and then use the strips day in day out. If something’s not right pull out the liquid kit. I actually need to grab a liquid kit - the one issue is that once opened they expire fairly quickly so you have to replace them every 6-12 months. 

As for my nursing career I’m at year 21 as a registered nurse and 17 years as an NP. I had a circuitous route to cardiology NP but it’s a good fit for me intellectually lots of puzzles to solve. 

[Vicki]

On 7/18/2023 at 2:54 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

Are you going to quarantine the fish? Irene has a great video on the Coop YT on setting up and running a quarantine tank using a food safe tote. This has been my go to method before I had a fishroom. You’ve worked hard and I’d hate for you and your plants to have a setback if you had to dose the whole thing with antibiotics or parasitic treatment. 

Yep.  I have two quarantine tanks I can use. One I (try to) keep running downstairs (evaporation is awful in Colorado) and another I can pull out and use in an emergency. I have a small sponge I can seed with, and *now* I have Stability and all kinds of Seachem  I can add to that mix. So it would seem that I’m set! 😂

[Stef]

Don’t give up on the crypts!  As others have said they melt back and look terrible but once they settle and get some root tab love they’ll reward you. I have some of the bronze variety (I think) and they are stunners. Once they come back though, don’t move them or they’ll melt again. They don’t like to be moved. 

[Vicki]

@Stef That’s good to know. Do they spread?

[Stef]

@Vicki They don’t spread like a carpeting plant would. They should get taller and fuller. A few of mine are below. These all turned to mush when I first planted 2+ years ago. 
 

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:34 AM, Vicki said:

2) My driftwood is growing a disgusting slime on it.

Just for the sake of it I was re-reading through everything.  The stuff on the wood.....

It's a big of a pain, but remove it as best you can and re-boil the wood.  15-20 minutes or so on a simmer, rotate the wood if need be as many times as possible.  You don't want to "cook it" but get the water pretty good and hot and then hold the temp there as long as you need it.  (We need a fishy sous vide. 😂 )

As long as it isn't sap seeping from the wood you should be able to handle it.  this isn't a typical "wood fungus" and it's something you'll want to be sure to remove when you see it.

[anewbie]

Fyi: tap water is usually higher ph initially but if you let it sit out for 24 hours in a pail or something and remeasure it will lower. The reason is the water company typically put in an additive to protect pipes and it will dissipate. Also it is a good idea to test a aquarium a couple of times the first few weeks in case you add something that leach (tyipcally some rocks or substrates). Last but least kh is far more useful value than actual ph. Likewise when you select your fish gh is also a useful number.