Does water change help raise KH and GH?

[Lennie]

On 6/12/2023 at 5:40 PM, martinmin said:

1) It's simpler to monitor the water parameter than test strip and cost nothing, though I do use test strip a lot. Hopefully, a simple TDS reading can tell most if not all about gh, kh and ph.

2) TDS contains at least magnesium and calcium and that's why I thought TDS is also an indication of at GH. And by using test strip, I often found that when GH is high, KH is high too.

You ideally need to monitor gh seperately.

My tap reads 370 tds but has 0 gh. By testing tds, you can't really know your gh value really is

[martinmin]

On 6/12/2023 at 7:57 AM, Lennie said:

You ideally need to monitor gh seperately.

My tap reads 370 tds but has 0 gh. By testing tds, you can't really know your gh value really is

"My tap reads 370 tds but has 0 gh.". That's weird. Then how do you raise gh?

[Lennie]

On 6/12/2023 at 6:15 PM, martinmin said:

"My tap reads 370 tds but has 0 gh.". That's weird. Then how do you raise gh?

I use gh+. I used to use equilibrium

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:15 AM, martinmin said:

My tap reads 370 tds but has 0 gh.". That's weird. Then how do you raise gh?

You add calcium and magnesium.

But if you don't know the GH, how could you make an informed decision to raise it?

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/12/2023 at 7:40 AM, martinmin said:

1) It's simpler to monitor the water parameter than test strip and cost nothing, though I do use test strip a lot. Hopefully, a simple TDS reading can tell most if not all about gh, kh and ph.

As I've mentioned and pointed to many times.  TDS has zero bearing on what your GH and KH are.  In turn, it tells you nothing about PH. 

https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/ph-kh-gh-tds/how-to-read-local-water-reports?_pos=4&_sid=aa42df318&_ss=r

Quote

TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) - Again, this value is popularly quoted but is much less important than people think. What makes up the TDS is much more important than the total value. This TDS value does not tell you what is dissolved in the water. If say you have tap water that is 15ppm, one might interpret that as having great tap water, however, if it contains 5ppm of Copper, that would be lethal to all aquatic life. Similarly, if tap water has 200ppm TDS, but its mostly Calcium and other benign elements; the tap water can be ideal for aquatic plants. As a very general gauge, you almost always have very soft water if your TDS is below 100ppm. As tap TDS rises towards 300ppm and above, it is usually because of water sourced from limestone areas - meaning that usually this means that you have hardwater.  To know how hard exactly, we have to look at other parameters such as Carbonate hardness or KH.

 

On 6/12/2023 at 7:40 AM, martinmin said:

2) TDS contains at least magnesium and calcium and that's why I thought TDS is also an indication of at GH. And by using test strip, I often found that when GH is high, KH is high too.

As mentioned above, this is incorrect.  TDS has no indication of what is dissolved in the water.  The only way to know what your GH and KH are is to test for GH and KH.  If you have an inert substrate, and you have a tank that is established, then you can use TDS to track Old Tank Syndrome.  (things building up over time, via TDS testing).  Essentially, what you are saying here is that you can use total dissolved solids to test for old tank syndrome, true in some situations, but this is not useful for determining what is dissolved in your water (i.e. GH and KH) and as such, is not relative to point towards any plant fertilization issues.

I hope the above makes sense and we can help to figure out what your issues are with your planted tank.

Please take a look at this blog article by Aquarium Co-Op.
https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

[martinmin]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:40 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

As I've mentioned and pointed to many times.  TDS has zero bearing on what your GH and KH are.  In turn, it tells you nothing about PH. 

https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/ph-kh-gh-tds/how-to-read-local-water-reports?_pos=4&_sid=aa42df318&_ss=r

 

As mentioned above, this is incorrect.  TDS has no indication of what is dissolved in the water.  The only way to know what your GH and KH are is to test for GH and KH.  If you have an inert substrate, and you have a tank that is established, then you can use TDS to track Old Tank Syndrome.  (things building up over time, via TDS testing).  Essentially, what you are saying here is that you can use total dissolved solids to test for old tank syndrome, true in some situations, but this is not useful for determining what is dissolved in your water (i.e. GH and KH) and as such, is not relative to point towards any plant fertilization issues.

I hope the above makes sense and we can help to figure out what your issues are with your planted tank.

Please take a look at this blog article by Aquarium Co-Op.
https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

I will try "Seachem Equilibrium" to raise GH, and hopefully KH will raise as well.

[martinmin]

On 6/12/2023 at 11:16 AM, martinmin said:

I will try "Seachem Equilibrium" to raise GH, and hopefully KH will raise as well.

"If you wish to raise pH, KH, and GH and harden your water, our first choice is to add crushed coral – either mixed into the substrate or as a bag of filter media in your hang-on-back or canister filter." If I buy crushed coral, I am not sure whether I can add them to my filter. It's not a canister filter, not hang on back filter, but an in-the-water filter. So what I can do is to manually insert some crushed coral into the substrate, which are already covered by plants? 

[Mmiller2001]

Why do you want to raise GH and KH them when you don't know what they are? Crushed coral only adds calcium and carbonate. Why would you want to not include magnesium? 

Just go buy an 11 dollar GH/KH API test kit. 

Changing parameters when you don't know your baseline is is counter productive.

[martinmin]

On 6/11/2023 at 6:25 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

If the tap water is 25ppm GH, how is the tank 100ppm GH? Are you dosing a GH product?

I have some carisea super natural premium substrate, which is sand. If I add some to my black soil substrate, does it help raise GH and KH? See pictures below please.

[Mmiller2001]

It does not.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/12/2023 at 11:22 AM, martinmin said:

If I buy crushed coral, I am not sure whether I can add them to my filter. It's not a canister filter, not hang on back filter, but an in-the-water filter. So what I can do is to manually insert some crushed coral into the substrate, which are already covered by plants? 

As Mmiller mentioned, you need to have the ability to test your GH and KH. Preferably via a liquid test.  Trying to use buffers without having the ability to track and monitor them is counter productive and can be very detrimental to your fish and plants.  When my KH got too high, I lost about 30-50 leaves a day on my plants because of the drastic change.

GH buffer ---> Seachem Equilibrium
KH buffer ---> Seachem Alkalinity buffer

Given your setup, if you don't want to add a media bag of CC to your filter, it was not an option for me as well... then your best bet is to use the above KH buffer mentioned.  This gives you the ability to adjust GH and KH individually.  If you would like a Pre-Made mix there are things like shrimp buffers (salty shrimp, etc.) which make it easier to do so.  Green Aqua is a great resource when it comes to planted tank information if you would like to explore further.

Here is another method using a media bag in the corner of a tank.

 

On 6/12/2023 at 11:32 AM, martinmin said:

If I add some to my black soil substrate, does it help raise GH and KH? See pictures below please.

This is inert gravel substrate.  Mmiller is 100% correct, it won't impact your water parameters.
 

Edited June 12, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[martinmin]

On 6/12/2023 at 11:32 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

Why do you want to raise GH and KH them when you don't know what they are? Crushed coral only adds calcium and carbonate. Why would you want to not include magnesium? 

Just go buy an 11 dollar GH/KH API test kit. 

Changing parameters when you don't know your baseline is is counter productive.

I have the AC test strips do I can test both, and know that they are low, which needs to be raised.

On 6/12/2023 at 11:56 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

As Mmiller mentioned, you need to have the ability to test your GH and KH. Preferably via a liquid test.  Trying to use buffers without having the ability to track and monitor them is counter productive and can be very detrimental to your fish and plants.  When my KH got too high, I lost about 30-50 leaves a day on my plants because of the drastic change.

GH buffer ---> Seachem Equilibrium
KH buffer ---> Seachem Alkalinity buffer

Given your setup, if you don't want to add a media bag of CC to your filter, it was not an option for me as well... then your best bet is to use the above KH buffer mentioned.  This gives you the ability to adjust GH and KH individually.  If you would like a Pre-Made mix there are things like shrimp buffers (salty shrimp, etc.) which make it easier to do so.  Green Aqua is a great resource when it comes to planted tank information if you would like to explore further.

Here is another method using a media bag in the corner of a tank.

 

This is inert gravel substrate.  Mmiller is 100% correct, it won't impact your water parameters.
 

For the second video, the crushed coral can boost GH, KH, and pH. Is that because this particular brand can raise three at the same time? In that case, I want this brand for my aquarium.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/12/2023 at 1:58 PM, martinmin said:

For the second video, the crushed coral can boost GH, KH, and pH. Is that because this particular brand can raise three at the same time? In that case, I want this brand for my aquarium.

What is the GH and KH of your tank.  What is the GH and KH of your tap water. 

@Mmiller2001 and myself are very confused because there is a mix of TDS results.  Let's take a step back and clarify.... what is the GH/KH of the tank and your tapwater?

Until those 4 values are understood, it is very difficult to advise on what setup makes sense for your situation.

[martinmin]

On 6/12/2023 at 3:33 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

What is the GH and KH of your tank.  What is the GH and KH of your tap water. 

@Mmiller2001 and myself are very confused because there is a mix of TDS results.  Let's take a step back and clarify.... what is the GH/KH of the tank and your tapwater?

Until those 4 values are understood, it is very difficult to advise on what setup makes sense for your situation.

I just tested now and these are the numbers:

Tank:

GH: 25

KH: 30

TDS: 106

 

Tap water:

GH: 25

KH: 40

TDS: 65

[nabokovfan87]

Based on everything we know.  You would want to use a product like Equilibrium to raise your GH.  This is due to the active soil in the tank.  You add 3 tbsp to raise your GH by 3 degrees.  Once you see the soil stop pulling in those GH particles, then you we can move to stabilizing your GH and KH as a whole.  For right now, you can't do a whole lot about the KH/PH itself because that active soil is still stabilizing.  That process will take about a month at least.  You'll see your PH creep up towards 6.8 when the soil has stabilized.

For now, my advice would be as follows.
1.  Get a product to raise GH of your water
2.  Add per the directions on that product to raise your GH up to 100-120 ppm (this is 4-5 degrees)
3.  Repeat weekly testing of your GH/KH as mentioned above for the next 4-6 weeks.  You are either going to be doing weekly or bi-weekly water changes during this time.

[martinmin]

On 6/12/2023 at 3:51 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Based on everything we know.  You would want to use a product like Equilibrium to raise your GH.  This is due to the active soil in the tank.  You add 3 tbsp to raise your GH by 3 degrees.  Once you see the soil stop pulling in those GH particles, then you we can move to stabilizing your GH and KH as a whole.  For right now, you can't do a whole lot about the KH/PH itself because that active soil is still stabilizing.  That process will take about a month at least.  You'll see your PH creep up towards 6.8 when the soil has stabilized.

For now, my advice would be as follows.
1.  Get a product to raise GH of your water
2.  Add per the directions on that product to raise your GH up to 100-120 ppm (this is 4-5 degrees)
3.  Repeat weekly testing of your GH/KH as mentioned above for the next 4-6 weeks.  You are either going to be doing weekly or bi-weekly water changes during this time.

Great! this instruction is clear, and I will purchase: GH buffer ---> Seachem Equilibrium

I will keep you updated and thanks.

[Mmiller2001]

If this was my tank, I wouldn't touch KH at all and raise GH by 3 or 4 degrees. I wouldn't use Equilibrium and dose calcium and magnesium at a 3:1 ratio. I only say 3:1 because it works well in my tank, but 2:1 to 4:1 are used by folks way better at this than I. 

Equilibrium is trash in my opinion, but only in my opinion.

[martinmin]

On 6/12/2023 at 4:32 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

If this was my tank, I wouldn't touch KH at all and raise GH by 3 or 4 degrees. I wouldn't use Equilibrium and dose calcium and magnesium at a 3:1 ratio. I only say 3:1 because it works well in my tank, but 2:1 to 4:1 are used by folks way better at this than I. 

Equilibrium is trash in my opinion, but only in my opinion.

Then what do you recommend for raining GH if Equilibrium is not used? 

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/12/2023 at 5:42 PM, martinmin said:

Then what do you recommend for raining GH if Equilibrium is not used? 

CaSO4 and MgSO4 (Epson salt is MgSO4). You can get CaSO4 from Green Leaf Aquariums or NilocG.

[martinmin]

It turns out that I had this below, so I just added 30ML to my 75 gallon tank and see how it goes in 1 week. 

 

On 6/12/2023 at 3:51 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Based on everything we know.  You would want to use a product like Equilibrium to raise your GH.  This is due to the active soil in the tank.  You add 3 tbsp to raise your GH by 3 degrees.  Once you see the soil stop pulling in those GH particles, then you we can move to stabilizing your GH and KH as a whole.  For right now, you can't do a whole lot about the KH/PH itself because that active soil is still stabilizing.  That process will take about a month at least.  You'll see your PH creep up towards 6.8 when the soil has stabilized.

For now, my advice would be as follows.
1.  Get a product to raise GH of your water
2.  Add per the directions on that product to raise your GH up to 100-120 ppm (this is 4-5 degrees)
3.  Repeat weekly testing of your GH/KH as mentioned above for the next 4-6 weeks.  You are either going to be doing weekly or bi-weekly water changes during this time.

For the 3 steps below, if I am setting up a new tank and the first week I do daily water change, and every other day water change in the 2nd week, and 2 water change in the 3rd week. And I need to raise GH due to low GH in my tap water. In such a case, how do I apply GH raising product? because I have to do water change very frequently in the first month. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:29 PM, martinmin said:

For the 3 steps below, if I am setting up a new tank and the first week I do daily water change, and every other day water change in the 2nd week, and 2 water change in the 3rd week. And I need to raise GH due to low GH in my tap water. In such a case, how do I apply GH raising product? because I have to do water change very frequently in the first month. 

Given the tank has been setup for a little while and we know GH is low.... Give the soil a bit of time, at least 3 days before you do anything.  Typically when you add GH (or KH) buffers it takes about 24 hours or so for it to fully impact the system.  This means that on day 3-4 you're at a good pace to see exactly where the GH levels are.  I would opt for simply doing weekly water changes at this point in time.  If you were seeing excess ammonnia, nitrite, or nitrates right now, then I would encourage daily water changes.  If things look ok, weekly for 2-3 weeks.

[martinmin]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:41 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Given the tank has been setup for a little while and we know GH is low.... Give the soil a bit of time, at least 3 days before you do anything.  Typically when you add GH (or KH) buffers it takes about 24 hours or so for it to fully impact the system.  This means that on day 3-4 you're at a good pace to see exactly where the GH levels are.  I would opt for simply doing weekly water changes at this point in time.  If you were seeing excess ammonnia, nitrite, or nitrates right now, then I would encourage daily water changes.  If things look ok, weekly for 2-3 weeks.

I was assuming if I need to set up a totally new tank and if the GH is low due to tap water, how would I dose the GH in the first month?

Also, I just tested again and found that TDS has risen to 160 from 105, GH risen to 70 from 25, in just about 2 hours after the dosing. It takes effect quickly. Tomorrow it should be even higher. KH doesn't change.

Should I also dose KH buffer right now? 

On 6/12/2023 at 3:51 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Based on everything we know.  You would want to use a product like Equilibrium to raise your GH.  This is due to the active soil in the tank.  You add 3 tbsp to raise your GH by 3 degrees.  Once you see the soil stop pulling in those GH particles, then you we can move to stabilizing your GH and KH as a whole.  For right now, you can't do a whole lot about the KH/PH itself because that active soil is still stabilizing.  That process will take about a month at least.  You'll see your PH creep up towards 6.8 when the soil has stabilized.

For now, my advice would be as follows.
1.  Get a product to raise GH of your water
2.  Add per the directions on that product to raise your GH up to 100-120 ppm (this is 4-5 degrees)
3.  Repeat weekly testing of your GH/KH as mentioned above for the next 4-6 weeks.  You are either going to be doing weekly or bi-weekly water changes during this time.

"Once you see the soil stop pulling in those GH particles, then you we can move to stabilizing your GH and KH as a whole. " what do you mean by this sentence? 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:58 PM, martinmin said:

I was assuming if I need to set up a totally new tank and if the GH is low due to tap water, how would I dose the GH in the first month?

The rule of thumb is 80-120 ppm GH. Essentially, your goal is for GH = 2x KH.

 

On 6/12/2023 at 9:58 PM, martinmin said:

Once you see the soil stop pulling in those GH particles, then you we can move to stabilizing your GH and KH as a whole. " what do you mean by this sentence? 

Meaning, you prefer the substrate to fill with GH.  So initially, buffer the tank with GH and get your GH to a good level and cycle the substrate. Then, once it is cycled and done absorbing during that initial setup, then you can proceed to worry about getting everything perfect.

[martinmin]

On 6/12/2023 at 10:45 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The rule of thumb is 80-120 ppm GH. Essentially, your goal is for GH = 2x KH.

 

Meaning, you prefer the substrate to fill with GH.  So initially, buffer the tank with GH and get your GH to a good level and cycle the substrate. Then, once it is cycled and done absorbing during that initial setup, then you can proceed to worry about getting everything perfect.

"The rule of thumb is 80-120 ppm GH. Essentially, your goal is for GH = 2x KH." My real question is, assuming I need to set up a totally new tank and in the first week, I have to change water daily. Then how often I dose GH to raise it? You dose GH, but then next day you change water and dose again? The first month needs frequent water change and I was asking how to deal with that? 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/12/2023 at 11:52 PM, martinmin said:

My real question is, assuming I need to set up a totally new tank and in the first week, I have to change water daily. Then how often I dose GH to raise it? You dose GH, but then next day you change water and dose again? The first month needs frequent water change and I was asking how to deal with that? 

I recently (as in the past few months) setup my 75G with aquasoil.  I can repeat the directions from the manufacturer, the instructions from George Farmer or Green Aqua, but the just is this....

When you FIRST setup your tank with aquasoil the substrate is leeching out ammonia and a lot of excess nutrients.  You physically see this in the water and all over the tank.  There is floating debris, there is a coating on things, and it takes manual effort to eliminate those things.  You're not vacuuming the substrate when it comes to that type of a substrate, you're simply going to do water changes, a few, for the first 1-2 weeks.  This helps to get rid of that initial shock.  This helps to get rid of that waste and mess in the tank that will cause severe algae if you do not.

Now. You have a tank, with soil for plants and you'll be planting it.  Those plants need a few days to acclimate to your water and to their new lighting conditions, nutrient conditions.  It is generally common not to dose anything the first 3-7 days of setting up a planted tank.  Once you're past the initial stage you are going to maintain the tank as you normally would.  I can speak to my own methods and to my own maintenance schedule, but if your schedule is different than mine or just your water is different than mine you are going to run into issues that I won't.  The idea is NOT to give you a rigid "follow what I do", but the goal is to train and pass on the technique of what works for a planted tank.  There are many other, so many on this forum even, experiences sources on the internet to ask questions about how to keep a planted tank.   Ultimately, there are a lot of best practices.

Commonly:
A.  Water changes weekly, 30-50%.  Dose in your buffers to keep your water parameters the same as much as possible.  There will be fluctuations. (The only way to verify this is with testing!)
B.  Dosing daily or several times a week if possible of your fertilizers (not your buffers).  If not possible, dose weekly.
C.  You want GH = 2x KH
D.  You want your water to be cooler rather than warmer to help the plants and fight algae.
E.  You want to have good CO2, good nitrate levels (fert levels) and you want to make sure that you aren't seeing signs of deficiencies with your plants.
F.  You want to actually maintain your tank and put in the effort to keep it "aquascaped".  Things like cleaning up excess waste, cleaning off algae, maintaining your filtration, etc.

The list goes on and on and youtube has a TON of wonderful resources.  Again, I will mention and recommend that you take a look at green aqua videos.  I will attach a playlist below of their tank care techniques.