Help...algae growth

[Jeff_F]

Help.....new algae forming.

I believe I have some Black Beard algae and some green algae.

I have a 30 gallon tank that is planted and has been looking very good with good plant growth. I have an Aquarium coop light set at 70%, do CO2 injection and do Easy Green fertilization with 3 pumps twice a week. I wanted to do some Red plants so I purchased some a week ago and put them into the tank. I put the lights up to 80% because of the red plants.

A few days ago I noticed the algae forming. I turned the lights back down to 70% My phosphate and nitrates had been trending high prior to adding the red plants. Phosphate around 2 and nitrates around 50ppm. I did a approximate 40% water change which brought the them down to about 1 and 25ppm.

I've looked online but the advise is confusing. One place says to add more fertilizer other places say to reduce fertilizer I'm not sure what to do at this point.

Any suggestions?

[Mmiller2001]

How do you measure CO2?

[Jeff_F]

I have a drop checker.  It is green.

[Mmiller2001]

On 5/12/2023 at 11:20 AM, Jeff_F said:

I have a drop checker.  It is green.

Can you take a picture of it? Drop checkers really are terrible indicators of proper CO2 levels. The KH/pH chart is a bit better but measuring pH drop is the best method. 

[Jeff_F]

My ph is 6.8 and KH is 3 dKH.  According to an online CO2 chart that puts me at about 10ppm which is pretty low.  Do you recommend that I increase my co2 injection?

What about dosing the fertilizer?   More or less?

[Mmiller2001]

The chart can be a bit deceiving also. Why? The chart is a theoretical example of water with only X pH and X dKH. It doesn't include other acids in the water affecting pH. Nitrates, for example, is a weak acid. So those charts are misleading because they don't represent the entire picture. Keep this in mind when referencing them.

The best method for measuring CO2 is take a clean 200 to 400ml sample of your tank water and let it sit on the counter for 48 hours. Just let it sit there and degas into the atmosphere. After 48 hours, pH that sample. This pH is your degassed pH and is now the baseline pH. Let's assume the pH is 7 from the degassed sample. 

Now we want to measure the tank water under peak CO2 injection. That's going to be around 2 hours after CO2 injection starts. We want a 1 to 1.5pH decrease from our sample pH of 7. Once you hit a 1 pH drop, you'll want to observe the fish for any signs of stress if you choose to increase CO2 beyond the 1pH drop. If you see any signs of stress, ever so lightly, back CO2 down. This will be your target of about 30ppm CO2. Most are happy with a single 1 point drop, but every tank is different and in my tank, a 1.5 drop works for me. 

I want to stress that the pH drop needs to be reached at lights on and should be maintained throughout the photoperiod. You can stop CO2 an hour before lights off without problems. It is very important to not fluctuate the pH during the photoperiod. This would be telling you the CO2 is fluctuating and this is an algae trigger. I also want to make clear a fluctuating pH isn't harmful to live stock, it's that the CO2 instability is causing algae.

Nutrient stability is important and you want to maintain a dose where every plant, slow or fast grower, has all the nutrients it wants at any time. Personally, I feel Estimative Index dosing solves this dilemma and I would recommend it to you. But how you deliver nutrients is a personal choice. That said, per your original post, you are a bit too high and too low at times. You want stability with your dosing as well. Pick a reputable program and stick with it. Hit the the recommended targets and maintain them pre and post water change. 

Keep up on maintenance. Usually, given proper dosing, nutrients are not the problem. It's either CO2 problems or husbandry.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Mmiller2001

[JoeQ]

On 5/12/2023 at 2:19 PM, Jeff_F said:

My ph is 6.8 and KH is 3 dKH.  According to an online CO2 chart that puts me at about 10ppm which is pretty low.  Do you recommend that I increase my co2 injection?

What about dosing the fertilizer?   More or less?

As for your test results, just be aware that using test strips aren't the most accurate way to measure. Test strips put my GH at about 300ppm and kh at about 40ppm. While a liquid test put my gh at about 212ppm and kh at  abouts 102 ppm. Im waiting on a ph test kit to arrive in the mail so I can compare that with the strips.

[Jeff_F]

On 5/12/2023 at 3:31 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

The chart can be a bit deceiving also. Why? The chart is a theoretical example of water with only X pH and X dKH. It doesn't include other acids in the water affecting pH. Nitrates, for example, is a weak acid. So those charts are misleading because they don't represent the entire picture. Keep this in mind when referencing them.

The best method for measuring CO2 is take a clean 200 to 400ml sample of your tank water and let it sit on the counter for 48 hours. Just let it sit there and degas into the atmosphere. After 48 hours, pH that sample. This pH is your degassed pH and is now the baseline pH. Let's assume the pH is 7 from the degassed sample. 

Now we want to measure the tank water under peak CO2 injection. That's going to be around 2 hours after CO2 injection starts. We want a 1 to 1.5pH decrease from our sample pH of 7. Once you hit a 1 pH drop, you'll want to observe the fish for any signs of stress if you choose to increase CO2 beyond the 1pH drop. If you see any signs of stress, ever so lightly, back CO2 down. This will be your target of about 30ppm CO2. Most are happy with a single 1 point drop, but every tank is different and in my tank, a 1.5 drop works for me. 

I want to stress that the pH drop needs to be reached at lights on and should be maintained throughout the photoperiod. You can stop CO2 an hour before lights off without problems. It is very important to not fluctuate the pH during the photoperiod. This would be telling you the CO2 is fluctuating and this is an algae trigger. I also want to make clear a fluctuating pH isn't harmful to live stock, it's that the CO2 instability is causing algae.

Nutrient stability is important and you want to maintain a dose where every plant, slow or fast grower, has all the nutrients it wants at any time. Personally, I feel Estimative Index dosing solves this dilemma and I would recommend it to you. But how you deliver nutrients is a personal choice. That said, per your original post, you are a bit too high and too low at times. You want stability with your dosing as well. Pick a reputable program and stick with it. Hit the the recommended targets and maintain them pre and post water change. 

Keep up on maintenance. Usually, given proper dosing, nutrients are not the problem. It's either CO2 problems or husbandry.

Thank you very much for your feedback and suggestions.  I will measure the ph drop per your instructions and let you know the results.  A questIon about results.  In your example, if the starting ph is 7 and you are looking for a 1 ph drop that puts it at 6 Isn’t that too low?  Do you mean 0.1?
 

I’ve heard about Estimative Index but just in passing.  I will look into it per your suggestion.  My recollection is that you actually ‘over dose’ so there is plenty of nutrients and then do a large water change once a week to reset everything.  It sounds like you use this technique.  Are you using Easy Green to get that high dosage or something else?  

Thanks for your help,

jeff

[Mmiller2001]

I do mean a full 1 point in pH drop. And unless you have a very specific species of fish, lower pH is not a problem. My tank runs at peak CO2 injection of 5.25pH. pH is mostly unimportant, GH and KH are the important number when working with different species.

I use dry fertilizer to be able to tailor my recipe and reduce costs by a significant amount. EI has been refined and most have found the upper end of EI isn't necessary, but yes, you are adding enough fertilizer to eliminate any potential deficiency. 

There are a few all in one fertilizers out there that employee the EI concept, but I don't feel like the cost justifies what they offer.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Mmiller2001

[Jeff_F]

I’ve watched a few videos and it looks pretty interesting.  Apparently there are a variety of EI kits available. Do you use one of the kits and can you recommend a responsible brand?

[Mmiller2001]

I always go here. I would buy the the EDTA/DPTA combo micros over the EDTA.

https://greenleafaquariums.com/categories/shop/aquarium-fertilizer.html

[Jeff_F]

So you are using the PPS-Pro (EDTA+DTPA) Aquarium Plant Fertilizer Package and not the EI package?    Looks like each has their own unique dosage schedule with 50% water changes.  If I switch from Easy Green dosing to GLA, are you suggesting the package the PPS-PRO package and not the EI package?

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/12/2023 at 9:44 AM, Jeff_F said:

Aquarium coop light set at 70%

I would suggest you start by cutting the light back, put it down too 30-40% power right now due to the plants you have in play. 

There is a few things in work here.  The first is that you have a shorter height tank and you have taller plants in play.  You also have very low demand plants.  Something like java fern can do very well with ambient light from the room.  Val and your other plants will also do ok if you reduce the light as well.

BBA is what you're dealing with and it comes into play for a variety of reasons.  BBA will go hard after old growth and dying plants.  What that means is that when you see a plant struggle, you might need to pull leaves, roots, or some sections of rhizomes even.  This is what I've been doing over 2 years to recover my anubias and I still get bouts where the BBA will perk up. 
 

On 5/12/2023 at 9:44 AM, Jeff_F said:

I put the lights up to 80% because of the red plants.

 How long is the light on for, how many hours?  I can't speak to getting the red plants to work.  I think the majority of your plants might do fine at a reduced intensity.  You can use location to put the red plants closer to the hotspot and your lower demand plants in the front / back of the tank.

[neitherman]

@Jeff_F I run an Aquarium Co-op light and have red ludwigia that does fantastic at 50% power (as an example):

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/12/2023 at 8:24 PM, neitherman said:

@Jeff_F I run an Aquarium Co-op light and have red ludwigia that does fantastic at 50% power (as an example):

Tank height for reference?

[neitherman]

On 5/12/2023 at 10:49 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Tank height for reference?

20"

Edited May 13, 2023 by neitherman

[Mmiller2001]

On 5/12/2023 at 7:13 PM, Jeff_F said:

So you are using the PPS-Pro (EDTA+DTPA) Aquarium Plant Fertilizer Package and not the EI package?    Looks like each has their own unique dosage schedule with 50% water changes.  If I switch from Easy Green dosing to GLA, are you suggesting the package the PPS-PRO package and not the EI package?

No, I use plain old Epsom salts and don't need the Mg. I buy the NPK individually. If I need Micros, I would get the individual Micro combo I mentioned.

They don't sell an EI package with the EDTA/DTPA combo Micros.