Cory with Saprolegnia?

[eusher11]

Hello, everyone! My name is Liz and I am from a small town in Ohio! I got into fishkeeping 3 years ago, and have had a tank since. I've worked my way up to a 23G Fluval Vista, which houses 3 Venezuelan Corys, 3 albino corys, and 3 bronze corys. This tank was set up in October of this past year - using the same substrate from my 16.9 gallon Fluval tank. So the tank was immediately cycled. I gradually added to my school until I got up to 9 fish. That's all I really want. Oh, and I have some bladder snails in the tank as well! 

I noticed that one of my bronze cory's had a strange growth on him the week before last during a water change. So naturally, I checked my parameters and my nitrates were through the roof - and when I say through the roof, I mean like 80ppm. Did a substantial water change (60%), added in a Nitrazorb pad to help reduce ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites. I use spring water for water changes, and condition with Seachem Prime. My tap water has ammonia in it - so that isn't an option anymore. I use the API Master Kit, and also Cory's strips for testing parameters. I'm pretty sure, despite having live plants, that I had a nitrate bloom because I was over-feeding. I struggle with this A LOT. I have 9 cory's, 8 of which that are still growing. I've read that you feed twice daily. I make their food, I use Repashy bottom scratcher, community, and soylent green - I mix them all together and put them into cute little gummy bear molds. I cut them up into 8 or 9 pieces, relatively small, and then dump them in. I've backed off a lot on feeding recently, because of this situation. But any insight on HOW much to feed would honestly be so appreciated. I'm ashamed to ask, having had a tank for 3 years - but I am SO bad at knowing the amount to feed.

Since I wasn't sure exactly WHAT was on him, I decided to do the trio on Cory's page. I treated with a week of Maracyn. What initially started as a tiny, round, white dot on my cory's side, right below the gill, now exploded into this white...fuzz. I consulted Reddit and I believe I've found the diagnosis: Saprolegnia.

Now, I've been doing daily water changes, and treating the whole tank with ich-x. I feel like this isn't the best strategy. I'm using Ich-X because it has Malachite Green in it, which is supposed to be good at treating Saprolegnia. I'd like a more focused treatment, just for little man, because this isn't something that is typically spread - hence why no other fish are affected. I know that survival rates, at least from what I've read, aren't super great for this disease - but I'd like to give him the best chance at survival, if possible. I did a Methylene blue dip on him yesterday, added 2tsp of Methylene blue to 1 gallon of tank water. Let him sit in it (in a net, of course), for 10 seconds. Then I put him back in the tank, completed the rest of my water change, and added my 2tsp of ich-x to the tank. I read somewhere that you can do salt water baths for treatment, but because cory's are scaleless this can do more harm than good. I'm at a loss, and I really don't know what else to do. I have Epsom Salt, aquarium salt, Maracyn, Paracleanse, Kanaplex, Methylene Blue, and Ich X on hand. I'm happy to buy anything else that might help. There isn't a lot of info online about Saprolegnia - at least not that I could find. 

I DO have a quarantine tank that I can put him in - but I don't want to separate him from his school. I know how stupid that sounds. But I feel like being alone, in a quarantine tank, would just crush him. He's used to being with his buddies, all day, every day. He's still relatively active, and has a great appetite - which makes me somewhat hopeful. As a nurse, when I did the Methylene Blue dip yesterday, I literally wanted to scrape all of it off of him - but resisted. Because I'm sure that would do more harm than good. 

Any advice would be so appreciated! I love these little fish SO much, and want everyone to make it through this in one piece. 

I tried to get some better pictures of him - but it's so hard to photograph him, he's constantly moving. I did the best I could. I've included pics of current parameters, as well as my thermometer. Tank always sits at 78 degrees - preset. No ammonia in the tank. 

[Colu]

Looks like saprolegniasis it's caused by water mold it's usually secondary to a bacterial infections  most effective treatment is a combination of of malachite green and an antibiotic treatment such as maracyn or maracyn2 to treat the underlying bacterial infection @eusher11

[eusher11]

Okay, so if I do this five days in a row - do I do water changes daily? Is it SAFE to do this with the other cory's in the tank? 

[Colu]

I would do a daily 30% water change and redose the medication daily for the full 5 days it should be safe for your other Cory's if you have a quarantine tank I would the sick fish on its own @eusher11

[nabokovfan87]

@Colu given the results above, is PH issues based on no/low KH causing stress on the tank as well?

On 4/10/2023 at 6:42 AM, eusher11 said:

do I do water changes daily? Is it SAFE to do this with the other cory's in the tank? 

yes you can do water changes every 24 hours.

On 4/10/2023 at 6:08 AM, eusher11 said:

Tank always sits at 78 degrees - preset. No ammonia in the tank. 

If you only have corydoras in the tank, they can safely be at lower temps and prefer it.

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/10/2023 at 6:08 AM, eusher11 said:

My tap water has ammonia in it - so that isn't an option anymore.

If your water is showing ammonia, it could be a sign of chloramines in the water.  There are some tests you can run that will indicate which one you're dealing with.

You would use an off-gas test (chloramines take longer to dissipate from the water) or you would optimally use test strips for chlorine which show free and total chlorine.

From Fritz Aquatic article on Chloramines

Quote

Chloramine is a chemical used to disinfect water. It is ammonia (NH3) bonded to chlorine. It resists breaking down and is used because of its stability in water. Many commercial chlorine removers can be used to remove the chlorine, but when used alone, ammonia is left over. The toxicity of ammonia will depend on a few factors. This article should help you decide the best course of action in your situation. Ammonia is not toxic at a pH below 7.0. This happens because, in acid conditions, free hydrogen ions convert it to ammonium NH4. As pH rises above 7.0, these hydrogen ions are less available, leaving more toxic ammonia (NH3).

 

Quote

Recently, water treatment plants have started treating tap water with chloramine instead of chlorine. Chloramine is a combination of chlorine and ammonia. It’s much more stable than chlorine, does not dissipate from the water as easily, and it isn’t as likely to combine with other chemicals. But chloramine isn’t as good at killing off the microorganisms in the water as chlorine, so higher levels of chloramine are often used. Typically, water treatment plants use about 1 ppm of chloramine.

Adding chlorine and chloramines to our drinking water is very important to keep people healthy. But the same chemicals which keep us safe can be very toxic to fish. Adding tap water with chlorine or chloramine to a tank can quickly kill off fish. It can also kill off the nitrifying bacteria that keep your tank stable and healthy.

The simplest and most effective way to remove chlorine and chloramines from your water is using chemical dechlorinators.

Essentially, you'd just use a double dose of dechlorinator.  On Prime this is listed on the back of the bottle as the recommended dose for chloramines.

The other method is just off-gas test to confirm:

From ACO blog:
https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/faqs/does-letting-water-sit-remove-chlorine

Quote

Yes, chlorine is fairly unstable and will gradually evaporate from water. However, many water treatment plants have begun using chloramine instead of chlorine because it is a more stable disinfectant formed by combining ammonia and chlorine. Chloramine cannot be easily removed from water via evaporation and must be neutralized using dechlorinator. If you are sure your tap water contains chlorine and not chloramine, you can let the water sit for 1-5 days to allow all the chlorine to evaporate.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[Colu]

On 4/10/2023 at 7:30 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Colu given the results above, is PH issues based on no/low KH causing stress on the tank as well?

It could be I don't trust test strips when it come to. pH or kH mine always read 0 kH and pH 6.2 when I test with my pH pen and API kH test kit my kH is 4 and my pH is 6.8-7.1 Cory's should do fine in a lower pH and KH if it's causing the pH to fluctuate them that can be stressful 

[eusher11]

I don't understand Gh or Kh at all. I have crushed coral in the tank, but I don't think I put enough in. I have a pound of it left. I think I only added a half a cup like a month ago. I wasn't sure how much to put in, and didn't want to overdo it. I will get a new thermometer as well, so I can lower the temp a bit. Something tells me that mold probably grows faster in a warm environment. I'll decrease the temp gradually. 

[Colu]

On 4/10/2023 at 10:58 PM, eusher11 said:

I don't understand Gh or Kh at all. I have crushed coral in the tank, but I don't think I put enough in. I have a pound of it left. I think I only added a half a cup like a month ago. I wasn't sure how much to put in, and didn't want to overdo it. I will get a new thermometer as well, so I can lower the temp a bit. Something tells me that mold probably grows faster in a warm environment. I'll decrease the temp gradually. 

With crushed coral you want to add 1lb per 10 gallons it desloves more quickly in acidic water I would start at half a pound of crushed coral per 10 gallons  and see were your pH stabilize at you want some kH to prevent your pH from fluctuating 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/10/2023 at 2:58 PM, eusher11 said:

I don't understand Gh or Kh at all.

If you haven't read this before it's worth a look. Might help out.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

[eusher11]

Okay so update: I added some more crushed coral to my wilting supply that was already in the tank. I also bought a new, adjustable heater. Took the old one out, put the new one in, set it at around 72. I'm hoping the temperature will just go down gradually, so as to not stress the fish. Little man is doing alright, still active as ever. The area looks disgusting. It just seems to be getting worse - I don't know. Did my 30% water change and dosed with 2 packets of Maracyn and 2tsp of Ich-X. This is day 2 of that course of treatment. I'm wondering if I can take him out in a net and just use a q-tip to put some Methylene Blue directly on the area, just as a topical treatment. But I don't know. 

Thank you to everyone for the insight and advice, I appreciate it! 

[nabokovfan87]

Have you dosed any aquarium salt?

I use 1/2 cup per 10g for something like this.

1/3 cup per 10g is a little easier but all my corys do fine with either.

[eusher11]

On 4/11/2023 at 3:35 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Have you dosed any aquarium salt?

I use 1/2 cup per 10g for something like this.

1/3 cup per 10g is a little easier but all my corys do fine with either.

I have not, yet. I have plenty on hand. You think it's safe to add that to the regimen I'm already doing? 

[nabokovfan87]

It should be perfectly safe to use. The only think I'd recommend is to make sure you're running an extra airstone given the meds in the water.  Adding salt on top of that would thicken the water a little bit more.

I often see/recommend ich-x + salt together.  For bacterial (Maracyn) it's the same thing.
 

 

[eusher11]

On 4/11/2023 at 9:25 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

It should be perfectly safe to use. The only think I'd recommend is to make sure you're running an extra airstone given the meds in the water.  Adding salt on top of that would thicken the water a little bit more.

I often see/recommend ich-x + salt together.  For bacterial (Maracyn) it's the same thing.
 

 

Okay so I have more questions now. I have snails. They're just pond and bladder snails, but I don't want to harm them. The salt will probably kill them. SO if I was going to do a salt treatment I'd take the little guy out and do that independently from the tank to save the snails. 

Here is a really DUMB question. Do I use aquarium salt or Epsom salt? The "recipe" I found on this site for something major is 1tbsp per 1 gallon of water, but that says it's hard on scale less fish. So maybe I should do 2 gallons and 1 tbsp of salt?

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/12/2023 at 7:24 AM, eusher11 said:

Here is a really DUMB question. Do I use aquarium salt or Epsom salt? The "recipe" I found on this site for something major is 1tbsp per 1 gallon of water, but that says it's hard on scale less fish. So maybe I should do 2 gallons and 1 tbsp of salt?

Yes you'd optimally remove the snails or remove the specific fish in question to a QT tank.

Aquarium salt would be what you want to use, not Epsom salt (different things).

As far as the levels for treatment in my tanks I've done all three levels and the fish (specifically corydoras) are fine with it. Whichever you're comfortable with is fine to use.

[eusher11]

Unfortunately, little man didn't make it through treatment. I found him yesterday afternoon. Thank you to everyone for your advice! Not how I wanted it to end, but I also wasn't overly enthusiastic that treatment would be effective. Crappy situation all around. 

 

Put carbon in the tank to remove the antibiotics.

[nabokovfan87]

Very sorry, my condolences.