Red Lizard Whiptails

[Lennie]

Hey guys,

Today, I've seen red lizards for the first time in my LFS, and I just fell in love with them. 

I wonder if anyone has any experience with Red Lizard Whiptails. Internet does not have a lot of info on them, and it is hard to come by fishkeeper experiences.

We have chatted with @CJs Aquatics about them as I've seen their breeding topic today. They helped me a lot!

I've read probably all info online by now, including a previous topic created in this forum around 2 years ago. 

But I would love to hear some personal experiences if anyone here has any.

If you had any chance to keep them;

- How many have you kept together under with what parameters/temp/tank size?

- What was their diet like? Did yours like blanched veggies? Do they like to graze on algae and biofilm, or make any noticable difference?

- If kept more than one, what was your m:f ration in what tank size?

or any other stuff you'd like to share!

 

Many thanks,

 

Here is a cute pic online:)

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Lennie

[Biotope Biologist]

I have not had red lizard before but have had whiptails. All farlowella cats seem to be fairly similar in tank requirements:

 

They prefer softer water with heavy wood and plant features. They are incredibly shy at first, especially wild caught. They love blanched vegetables and mature algae to feed on. After a while mine became far less shy and hung out on the front glass. They would eat live blackworms on occasion although I’d say pretty sparingly. Maybe once a month.

 

They are very cute and cannot recommend this oddball genus enough. Although not sure if red lizards are technically a part of the farlowella genus. 
 

edit: according to wikipedia sources whiptails were moved into the genus Rineloricaria. 
 

My tank was the following:

As babies a 29 gallon high 3 females 1 male. Kept with 5 baby angels and 10 neon tetra. Heavily planted with several large pieces of driftwood. Water in Seattle comes from the tap soft and I think my ph was 6.8. They all moved into a 128g for several months before something went awry and killed everything. Only survivors was an adopted goldfish and a bristlenose pleco named Mushu

Edited February 19, 2023 by Biotope Biologist

[Lennie]

Thanks @Biotope Biologist!

When I was at LFS, I spent an hour reading everything online there to make a good decision, I ended up getting two. I've read them being shy aswell, but since I introduced them to the tank, they are active nonstop! They were not really active at all in the LFS tho. They have been moving around woods, rocks and jumping from one plant to another. They loved to play around the  waterfall current of HOB. No schooling behavior, but they randomly socialize with each other if meet each other on a wood or so.

I guess red lizards can't be wild caught, as it is not documented that they exist in wild from what I've seen so far. People still don't know their exact origin but assuming they are a result of breeding certain whiptails. Maybe that is why they were not shy at all.

Kinda regretting not getting a third, but any more than the third can be economically challenging to me rn. Even though they are tank-bred, red ones seem harder to breed from here:

https://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/shanesworld.php?article_id=419

so they were kinda pricey.

If they are not heavy grazers, I think I can do 3 in a 33g, but if not, 2 seems good for now, as I don't want my nerites and whiptails competing each other nonstop.

Hope I can provide them a good care. I'm so excited

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Lennie

[Biotope Biologist]

I gave mine lots of veggies so they didn’t compete with the snails. And eat up all the algae. I think 3 in a 33 would be fine! If you can find it in your budget 😋

[Lennie]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:30 PM, Biotope Biologist said:

I gave mine lots of veggies so they didn’t compete with the snails. And eat up all the algae. I think 3 in a 33 would be fine! If you can find it in your budget 😋

I guess I got two females. Couldn't see any bristles around their face. I wanna go get a male now :') Maybe they are too young to show their gender yet. They are about 6 cms. They seem to have really tiny bristles anyway, so It is hard to see

I've seen this video on youtube, but didn't want to stress them with flashlight. I will try to see more when the lights are on tomorrow.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Lennie

[CJs Aquatics]

Wonderful chatting with you earlier, love the topic and love the species and look forward to what everyone has to say, I’ll try to keep things brief…

I tried a few types of caves as I heard they are a cave spawner and they seemed to like right fitting, open ended pvc the best cut to approx 6 in, although this one is checking out a larger longer piece. (Sorry for the algae)

offered them many size caves both open and closed, this one was in the uplift tube of a coop sponge filter, never showed breeding activity in it but loved to hang out there 

it’s a relatively heavily planted 10 gallon running an undergravel filter with a deep layered substrate however I have had them in different set ups, it wasn’t until this one I saw eggs but it may have been bc they were finally mature enough. This pic is to show a potted anubias I have in the tank that I had to bring over from there last tank bc they loved laying in it so much, when I can’t find them I look here first you can vaguely see 2 of them in there currently.as far as feeding goes, I feed a varied diet, many many options. Mine don’t seem to care for blanched vegetables, there favorite foods are protein rich, carnivore pellets and they do well with larger sizes as shown in this picture. They graze on the algae all day or at least appear too but really get active when new foods are introduced, sometimes I feed flakes or nano pellets or wafers also but it’s important it gets to the bottom bc they don’t seem to travel up for the food they wait for it to hit the substrate. 
typical breeding behavior looks like this, very similar to plecos they breed in caves and are egg layers, then the female is kicked out and the male fans the eggs to keep them from growing fungus. I’ve seen eggs twice, relatively small clutches and haven’t for quite a while and neighter time saw any fry so this is as far as I’ve gotten. I’m hopeful I will be able to breed and successfully raise this peaceful fish, they are super fun to watch. 

[Lennie]

@CJs Aquatics they are looking great😍

Has anyone tried spirulina tabs with them? Planning to order some sera tabs, I’ve seen other whiptails enjoying it.

Well at worst case, my snails will enjoy it anyway I believe :,)

Edited February 20, 2023 by Lennie

[CJs Aquatics]

I’ve done spirulina flakes, and algae wafers with spirulina as well as the sera tabs and they like all 3 

[Lennie]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:06 AM, CJs Aquatics said:

I’ve done spirulina flakes, and algae wafers with spirulina as well as the sera tabs and they like all 3 

Alrighty, added to the shopping cart 🙂

 

[Surreal]

@Lennie Don't mean to revive an old thread like this, but have you come to any more conclusions when it comes to these guys? I just picked up a few from my LFS and love them as well, want to make sure I give them the best care I can!

[Shadow]

On 11/21/2023 at 5:35 PM, Surreal said:

@Lennie Don't mean to revive an old thread like this, but have you come to any more conclusions when it comes to these guys? I just picked up a few from my LFS and love them as well, want to make sure I give them the best care I can!

I have had 3 for about 2 months now and they seem pretty active, happy. They did hide for a week or so until they settled in. 

[Lennie]

On 11/22/2023 at 2:35 AM, Surreal said:

@Lennie Don't mean to revive an old thread like this, but have you come to any more conclusions when it comes to these guys? I just picked up a few from my LFS and love them as well, want to make sure I give them the best care I can!

Hello Surreal, 

In terms of diet, mine did not really show interest to veggies much so I stopped feeding it to them. Maybe you can try to see how yours react to it.

I give them small frozen foods, tropical insect menu, krill flakes, and algae tabs that are rich in both algae overall and includes different algae types. I dont think they are picky eaters at all.

They dont exactly school or schoal but I think they are social and like to have their own kind around. So good to hear you got a group. That being said, I have to disagree with them being extremely peaceful. As adults, males can be territorial a bit

I keep their tank warm. Currently at 29C due to raising ram babies with them. I wouldnt go higher than this, but also not too low. When I move ram babies to another tank, I would still do around 26-27 C.

They like small pipes that are open on both end. However existence of such hiding places significantly decreased their activity level in my tank. That is a sacrifice to consider making for their happiness :,)

Mine liked playing around plant leaves and woods. Especially as juveniles they were jumping from one crypt leaf to another.

In terms of flow, you may have some but I think they are fine no flow. That being said, as they like their tank warm, I do keep at least two sponge filter to increase the surface agitation in a 50x40x25cmh breeding tank. In their community tank they had a Hob also. So I would suggest a good aeration of your own style. 
 

They LOVE leaf litter. I add so many different leaves. I added a huge piece of banana leaf from my garden two weeks ago, they enjoyed it very much. Catappa leaves are their number one fav still.

I also have wild type neocaridinas with them. They live together peacefully

The ph is  7.5 in their tank if Im not mistaken

If you have any questions please ask. I just wrote down a few things that came to my mind

[Surreal]

On 11/22/2023 at 4:48 AM, Lennie said:

Hello Surreal, 

In terms of diet, mine did not really show interest to veggies much so I stopped feeding it to them. Maybe you can try to see how yours react to it.

I give them small frozen foods, tropical insect menu, krill flakes, and algae tabs that are rich in both algae overall and includes different algae types. I dont think they are picky eaters at all.

They dont exactly school or schoal but I think they are social and like to have their own kind around. So good to hear you got a group. That being said, I have to disagree with them being extremely peaceful. As adults, males can be territorial a bit

I keep their tank warm. Currently at 29C due to raising ram babies with them. I wouldnt go higher than this, but also not too low. When I move ram babies to another tank, I would still do around 26-27 C.

They like small pipes that are open on both end. However existence of such hiding places significantly decreased their activity level in my tank. That is a sacrifice to consider making for their happiness :,)

Mine liked playing around plant leaves and woods. Especially as juveniles they were jumping from one crypt leaf to another.

In terms of flow, you may have some but I think they are fine no flow. That being said, as they like their tank warm, I do keep at least two sponge filter to increase the surface agitation in a 50x40x25cmh breeding tank. In their community tank they had a Hob also. So I would suggest a good aeration of your own style. 
 

They LOVE leaf litter. I add so many different leaves. I added a huge piece of banana leaf from my garden two weeks ago, they enjoyed it very much. Catappa leaves are their number one fav still.

I also have wild type neocaridinas with them. They live together peacefully

The ph is  7.5 in their tank if Im not mistaken

If you have any questions please ask. I just wrote down a few things that came to my mind

Wow, I absolutely love how open the aquarium community is with their information. Thank you so much! I'll definitely let you know if I have any more questions when it comes to these guys. I've only had them for about a week so far and absolutely love watching them! I am also going to get more plants for them since like you mentioned they really seem to prefer planted setups.

Thank you again for all of the information! I really appreciate it.

[Lennie]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:54 PM, Surreal said:

Wow, I absolutely love how open the aquarium community is with their information. Thank you so much! I'll definitely let you know if I have any more questions when it comes to these guys. I've only had them for about a week so far and absolutely love watching them! I am also going to get more plants for them since like you mentioned they really seem to prefer planted setups.

Thank you again for all of the information! I really appreciate it.

Anytime!

Oh, and make sure they are not bothered by any fish that are commonly territorial in the tank on the bottom side. Ive seen my GBR pair bothering them a few times. They are no longer housed together in my case. 

[anewbie]

I have 4; i keep them at 76 in a large community aquarium and no special treatment. No clue if they have tried spawning. At first i liked them but these days i generally dislike man made hybrids and so i probably won't obtain more. Also there are two types - the pure red ones and the more brownish red. The brownish red are easier to breed or cross breed so they have become more common. I don't do anything special in keeping mine but they have grown substantially the last two years so i guess they are doing well.

[Lennie]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:43 PM, anewbie said:

At first i liked them but these days i generally dislike man made hybrids and so i probably won't obtain more.

Their origin is not known. So we cant directly say if they are hybrids, manmade or exist in the wild.

 

To quote some info about this:

https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/rineloricaria-sp/

This fish may or may not be a man-made, or even hybrid, species. There are a few theories regarding this currently in circulation. Some believe that the fish are derived from a true wild caught fish, possibly of Paraguayan origin. These wild-caught red whiptails are supposed to breed true, producing all red fry, although there is no concrete evidence that they actually exist. The second possibility is that it’s a selectively-bred form of Rineloricaria lanceolata, but this would appear unlikely, as there exist no records of mutant red fry in spawning reports of this frequently-bred species. The third explanation suggests that the true red whiptail was hybridised with R. lanceolata, the reason being that, lanceolata females are quite fecund, and thus the fish could be raised in commercially viable quantities more rapidly this way.

--------------------------------------------------

https://www.loricariidae.info/leliella-sp-l010a#:~:text=It's believed that the first,between this and Hemiloricaria lanceolata.

--------------------------------------------------

https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=747

"This red colour form is considered to be artificial although it is unclear what species or methods were used in its production. Aqualog introduced this fish with an l-number of L010a, it is very different from L010."

 

--------------------------------------------------

https://www.fishipedia.fr/fr/poissons/hemiloricaria-lanceolata

This website had differences between its original French version and English version. This is the google translate version of the French one as this info does not exist on the English page if I am not mistaken

 

[anewbie]

On 11/22/2023 at 3:17 PM, Lennie said:

Their origin is not known. So we cant directly say if they are hybrids, manmade or exist in the wild.

 

To quote some info about this:

https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/rineloricaria-sp/

This fish may or may not be a man-made, or even hybrid, species. There are a few theories regarding this currently in circulation. Some believe that the fish are derived from a true wild caught fish, possibly of Paraguayan origin. These wild-caught red whiptails are supposed to breed true, producing all red fry, although there is no concrete evidence that they actually exist. The second possibility is that it’s a selectively-bred form of Rineloricaria lanceolata, but this would appear unlikely, as there exist no records of mutant red fry in spawning reports of this frequently-bred species. The third explanation suggests that the true red whiptail was hybridised with R. lanceolata, the reason being that, lanceolata females are quite fecund, and thus the fish could be raised in commercially viable quantities more rapidly this way.

--------------------------------------------------

https://www.loricariidae.info/leliella-sp-l010a#:~:text=It's believed that the first,between this and Hemiloricaria lanceolata.

--------------------------------------------------

https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=747

"This red colour form is considered to be artificial although it is unclear what species or methods were used in its production. Aqualog introduced this fish with an l-number of L010a, it is very different from L010."

 

--------------------------------------------------

https://www.fishipedia.fr/fr/poissons/hemiloricaria-lanceolata

This website had differences between its original French version and English version. This is the google translate version of the French one as this info does not exist on the English page if I am not mistaken

 

Perhaps for the original fish but most of the ones sold today come from asian farms; and i found numerous references that they are producing hybrids because they are easier to breed that way.

[Surreal]

Since this seems to be the official red lizard whiptail thread: I just wanted to show off this little hotel I 3D printed for them. From what I can tell these fish like the half inch PVC pipes that are 6 inches long, so I designed these tubes with slots that can be put into this little hotel. They can slide in and out easily individually, and I can just take all of the caves out at once if needed. I didn't put it in my aquarium yet since I'd still like to do a little post-processing on them a bit, and maybe glue some moss on the outside so it doesn't look like a black brick haha. Hopefully the little guys will like this though! 

[Lennie]

On 11/25/2023 at 11:58 PM, Surreal said:

Since this seems to be the official red lizard whiptail thread: I just wanted to show off this little hotel I 3D printed for them. From what I can tell these fish like the half inch PVC pipes that are 6 inches long, so I designed these tubes with slots that can be put into this little hotel. They can slide in and out easily individually, and I can just take all of the caves out at once if needed. I didn't put it in my aquarium yet since I'd still like to do a little post-processing on them a bit, and maybe glue some moss on the outside so it doesn't look like a black brick haha. Hopefully the little guys will like this though! 

Looks great. Let mine stay at your hotel too!

my only worry would be your group having a dominant male in the future and not letting other whiptails to use the other tubes  around. But you can easily remove the tubes and put all around the tank if that happens

[Surreal]

On 11/25/2023 at 4:05 PM, Lennie said:

Looks great. Let mine stay at your hotel too!

my only worry would be your group having a dominant male in the future and not letting other whiptails to use the other tubes  around. But you can easily remove the tubes and put all around the tank if that happens

The going rate at Casa Whiptail is 1 blackworm cube per night, make sure you leave a deposit!

And yeah, I might make smaller versions of these if I see aggression happening but so far they all seem to tolerate/hang out with eachother in the aquarium.