Are platies smarter then we think?

[Theplatymaster]

I will preface this to say I am no novice to the Platy Fish, I obsess over them, and try to learn about them as much as possible. I will also say i can breed this fish till the cows come home. This post is not "I cant breed platies, Help" but "Ive noticed something odd, have you?"

 ive been  noticing something very odd about my platy males. It is recommended to keep platies in a 2:1, or 3:1 female to male ratio, so the males do not completely harass the females. I do agree with this. But for some reason, my males with choose favorites. At first it was when i first had platies, January 2022. I started with 1male and 2 females, and i noticed that the male would only pay attention to one of the females, this i easily explained to myself that the male was around an inch, his favorite female was a little bigger, and the other female was between 2-3 inches, but that doesnt explain what im seeing now. With my platy breeding project (Read about it here: https://forum.aquariumcoop.com/topic/30642-platy-color-breeding-project-journal/ ) i had a male and 3 females together in a 5gallon tank, they are all the same size. This was because i wanted the male to breed with the females, for interesting color varieties. However i noticed this odd behavior AGAIN. The moved out female has been glass surfing the side of the tank closer to the 5gallon tank, and so has the male   in the 5gallon. They can see each other. This is confusing for me, as i thought for something like a platy, the males were not picky about their females, but it looks here they are. Choosing mates is often a Cichlid/terrestrial animal trait. Another thing ive noticed is clear signs of loneliness. Platies are definetly social fish, they are not "Shoaling" fish, but they will be so much happier if you give them friends. I have had lone platies, they really try to seek out friends. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Or are these small fish just more intelligent than we thought? (someone will probably respond, and ill feel like an idiot for suggesting that platies are highly intelligent, but i think there is something here). Further testing is required. I shall be the first to mirror test a platy! I dont think they are einsteins obviously, but who knows, i seem to be seeing they are more then the instinctual small fish we think they are.

(Im gonna try to @ some platy addicts on here. I know @PineSong is on team platy, im not sure who else is obsessed with them that much though, if anyone that sees this knows anyone on here that is obssessed with platies, please @         them , im trying to gain others experiences in this theory)

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Theplatymaster

[CJs Aquatics]

New to platys also, I started with 8, they immediately split into 2 groups of 3 and 5. I didn’t pay attention to there gender but they seem to only hang with each other in those groups or sub groups within those groups even though they were all together when I bought them. They are also well aware of a predator that shares there tank with them and not only couldn’t care less but stay very clear of him. They are fascinating

[Theplatymaster]

On 2/5/2023 at 3:53 AM, CJs Aquatics said:

New to platys also, I started with 8, they immediately split into 2 groups of 3 and 5. I didn’t pay attention to there gender but they seem to only hang with each other in those groups or sub groups within those groups even though they were all together when I bought them. They are also well aware of a predator that shares there tank with them and not only couldn’t care less but stay very clear of him. They are fascinating

exactly. I have also noticed that often i will have a dominant male in the tank. And the other males purposely swim around this male, as appose to having to fight with it.

[PineSong]

I have observed in my male platy tank that there are definite pairs of buddies where whenever you see this guy, you also see that guy. And also small groups that swim one after the other much of the time. For this reason, I do not like to divide them up and do my best to avoid it. 

When I have bred my platies intentionally, I have just put one male and one female in a tank so I have not had the opportunity to observe whether the male prefers one female to another. However, in my current "Guppy Love Island" tank where I put three males and five female guppies, it is clear that the boys are more interested in some females than others. Because I can't tell all my females apart, I figured it could be that some of my females are too old to reproduce and aren't giving off the right hormonal cues.

[Theplatymaster]

On 2/5/2023 at 8:30 AM, PineSong said:

I have observed in my male platy tank that there are definite pairs of buddies where whenever you see this guy, you also see that guy. And also small groups that swim one after the other much of the time. For this reason, I do not like to divide them up and do my best to avoid it. 

fascinating. I have never done a platy male tank. In my current tank with tons of females the males spar a little, but if you are keeping them peacefully, good for you, im probably just doing something wrong with mine. Can you get a pic of some of these groups @PineSong

[MattyM]

I keep a single male in a 10g with 11 ember tetras. The tetras are pretty chill, and the male seems to emulate this behavior. I think this male was always pretty chill b/c when I had him in my main platy tank he was always getting bullied, and never really grew much, so maybe he's a bit of a runt. This platy is white and black, with the mickey mouse pattern on his tail.

In my 20 high I also keep a single male. He is younger but is already much bigger than the one in the 10, who must be over a year old at this point. He has very cool blue and black coloring. I have danios and blood fin tetras in this tank, along with panda cories. It is a very active tank, and this male platy seems to emulate this behavior. He's very curious and always swimming around, but this tank has also been his home for much of his life. 

I did have a breeding pair that I separated b/c I was just running out of space for all the fry. One after the other, each started breathing really fast (not gasping at the surface), hiding all of the time, and eventually not eating - not even live bbs. No signs of disease, rest of the fish fine in each tank. I tried treating the male for internal parasites, but he died during the first night of treatment. Post mortem exam showed nothing suspicious.

After this I turned my hospital tank into a platy overflow tank, bare bottomed but had places to hide and lots of plants either in a small pot, floating, or weighted down. I moved Big Mama, as I called her, and a bunch of fry and juvies into this tank. She seemed fine the first couple weeks, then started behaving just like the male. I was wondering if she was trying to give birth. I added a bit of salt to the tank to try and relax her muscles a bit. But when her breathing got more labored, and she stopped eating, I felt her quality of life was tanking and I euthanized. I've done this to several fish, but this one hit hardest. Again, post mortem exam seemed fine. She had lost a lot of weight, and I was wondering if she maybe had a tumor - but nothing obvious, yet my skills are lacking here. They are the only 2 platys have ever exhibited this slow decline with no signs of disease. 

Not sure if this helps, just my observations and experience. 

[Theplatymaster]

On 2/5/2023 at 12:04 PM, MattyM said:

I keep a single male in a 10g with 11 ember tetras. The tetras are pretty chill, and the male seems to emulate this behavior. I think this male was always pretty chill b/c when I had him in my main platy tank he was always getting bullied, and never really grew much, so maybe he's a bit of a runt. This platy is white and black, with the mickey mouse pattern on his tail.

In my 20 high I also keep a single male. He is younger but is already much bigger than the one in the 10, who must be over a year old at this point. He has very cool blue and black coloring. I have danios and blood fin tetras in this tank, along with panda cories. It is a very active tank, and this male platy seems to emulate this behavior. He's very curious and always swimming around, but this tank has also been his home for much of his life. 

I did have a breeding pair that I separated b/c I was just running out of space for all the fry. One after the other, each started breathing really fast (not gasping at the surface), hiding all of the time, and eventually not eating - not even live bbs. No signs of disease, rest of the fish fine in each tank. I tried treating the male for internal parasites, but he died during the first night of treatment. Post mortem exam showed nothing suspicious.

After this I turned my hospital tank into a platy overflow tank, bare bottomed but had places to hide and lots of plants either in a small pot, floating, or weighted down. I moved Big Mama, as I called her, and a bunch of fry and juvies into this tank. She seemed fine the first couple weeks, then started behaving just like the male. I was wondering if she was trying to give birth. I added a bit of salt to the tank to try and relax her muscles a bit. But when her breathing got more labored, and she stopped eating, I felt her quality of life was tanking and I euthanized. I've done this to several fish, but this one hit hardest. Again, post mortem exam seemed fine. She had lost a lot of weight, and I was wondering if she maybe had a tumor - but nothing obvious, yet my skills are lacking here. They are the only 2 platys have ever exhibited this slow decline with no signs of disease. 

Not sure if this helps, just my observations and experience. 

It does actually besides the killing platies part. Platies are intelligent little fish that get lonely. As you pointed out, when left without friends, they changed their behaviors to gain friends, what other fish do that!? Its crazy what these little fish are capable of.

[MattyM]

On 2/5/2023 at 11:11 AM, Theplatymaster said:

It does actually besides the killing platies part.

I'm sorry if that was disturbing, it was not fun to bring up but I did so in an effort to share experiences, good and bad. It's not like I "killed" a healthy fish. I cared for that fish very much and did the best I could. I will now think twice before sharing emotional information like that. I love my platys and don't appreciate being called a killer. 

Anyways, the bigger point I was trying to make was that even when surrounded by other platys, I can think of no other reason for their health decline than they wanted to be with their chosen partner. That sounds crazy, but I can draw no other conclusion, unless it was genetically related.

[Theplatymaster]

On 2/5/2023 at 12:37 PM, MattyM said:

I'm sorry if that was disturbing, it was not fun to bring up but I did so in an effort to share experiences, good and bad. It's not like I "killed" a healthy fish. I cared for that fish very much and did the best I could. I will now think twice before sharing emotional information like that. I love my platys and don't appreciate being called a killer. 

Anyways, the bigger point I was trying to make was that even when surrounded by other platys, I can think of no other reason for their health decline than they wanted to be with their chosen partner. That sounds crazy, but I can draw no other conclusion, unless it was genetically related.

@MattyM I apologize for making you sound like a horror movie chainsaw murderer, that was not my intention. Please do not be offended. I understand why you did what you did, i just used the wrong word.  Genetic problems are rare with platies, unless it was like a black gene cancer thing, i doubt it was genetics.  There could be other factors  to your fish death. Stress, water parameters... i dont think platies go that far in their intelligence, but if they do its fascinating.

[Jabberjaw]

I  breed platy's for profit.  I keep trios of breeders in a separate tank from the grow out tank. I've noticed that sometimes a female will become dominant and will chase off the other female and keep her away from the male.

I have a tank that I put all the colors I'm not breeding for together, along with other kinds of fish for the same reason. it's basically a dump tank for anything I'm not wanting to breed intentionally. I have noticed different species of fish seeking out other groups to follow when they don't have any of their kind to group with, as well as fish that have been (for better words to say) "run off" from their group. Platy females will group with other species when the dominant female in their group is a bully. I have one green lantern platy that isn't green that follows neon tetras and has started to behave like them. I also have a rainbow variatus platy that has been accepted into a group of female Jordanella Florida when she was chased off a from the group of platy's. I keep the cull males in a separate tank so I don't have breeding and have seen similar traits with them. Platy's are so social they do not liker to swim solo and will try to group with anyone that will let them, it doesn't have to be a similar species or size.

As far as intelligence goes, they are a determined and curious little fish. If they can find a way to get into an area you don't want them in, they will. They will constantly try to get on the other side of a divider just to see what's over there. I have watched them push and push at a flexible area until they have moved it to where they can squeeze through. If I put my hand in the tank, after a few seconds they will swim to the hand and try to find out what's in it, it doesn't matter if it's food or not. they want to know and will inspect the item if it's not food.

I have to say platy's are one of my favorite fish. Their coloration and personalities are amazing and I can watch them for hours.