Looking for Ideas on Why My Red Cherry Shimps are Dying Off

[Merrick]

PH: ~7.5
Nitrates: ~25
Hardness: ~200
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
KH/Buffer:~180
Temp: 76F

Looking for some insights as I am getting a bit frustrated not being able to pin down why my red cherry shrimp are dying off.  While I don’t think this is a disease issue per se I am having a real issue keeping RCS alive.  In way of background I brought 14 red cherry shrimp and some Pygmy Corys home from a LFS in Northern Virginia and 1-2 RCS have been dying every week or so.  I am currently at ~6 remaining. 

I had set up a QT to hold the RCS and the Corys before moving both over into my main tank.  The QT is a 5 gallon with a heater and a Finex clip on light.  I pulled a bunch of things from the main tank for the QT including Watersprite,  some Java moss, a sponge filter, some hardscape, and to start filled it with water from my main tank.  I also added a thin layer of new gravel to hold some of the Watersprite down and an old heater. I have done the med trio and some water changes since the tank was set up in late December.  To start with I had been feeding a mix of foods including BBS, frozen daphnia, fry food, and Hikari Shrimp Cuisine (there is some algae as well).  Once the Corys came out of the QT I moved to Shrimp Cuisine and fry food.  I am struggling to figure out what my misstep(s) are and wondering if folks have any suggestions/guidance? I am not seeing any sign of illness and it seems to be the larger RCS dying off.

 

I had previously purchased 12 RCS from the same store about a year prior and placed them into my main tank (20 long) and lost all of them.  I do have Amanos (did initially have about 50%  attrition after getting them) in my main tank ( which is now ~2 years old) and was not positive the original batch of RCS weren’t predated in the main tank, so I have been keeping this new batch separate to isolate that variable. While they are not getting eaten clearly they are dying off.

 

Thanks,
Merrick

[TheSwissAquarist]

How long has the tank been set up??

Do you use water conditioner?

It could be a variety of reasons. Planaria, trace metals,etc

[Merrick]

Thanks for the quick response. 

It is a quarantine tank and has only been setup since late December as the intent was to move everything to the main tank once out of quarantine.  I used water from my existing tank initially and when I have done water changes I have used tap water after dosing the appropriate amount of Fritz complete.  After reading this I did check the worms I had.  There are some detritus and rhabdocoela, but I have not noticed any Planaria. I have been reducing the amount of food given the worms and the the detritus worms are about gone.  There are still rhabdocoela in the tank.  Hopefully, the reduced food will eventually take care of them as well.

 

[nabokovfan87]

I would start by adding some wood to the tank.  It's a great surface for shrimp and it's something where they will get a lot of good bacteria from the surface.  Adding more rocks is also beneficial for similar reasons.

Often people lose shrimp because of over feeding.  Everything else seems ok.  I would eye nitrates, feed the shrimp only 2-3x a week.  The rest of the time you're going to be only feeding the fish.  You should see the shrimp active, excited for food.  If you don't it could be a sign of nutrient, bacterial, environmental, or "other" as a cause for the deaths.  I would highly recommend Mark's Shrimp Tanks videos if you've never seen them.  Really easy to see his methods and how he cares for his species.

On 2/4/2023 at 9:22 AM, Merrick said:

1-2 RCS have been dying every week or so.  I am currently at ~6 remaining. 

How did you acclimate them to your tank?  This alone causes the issue you're seeing as well.

[JettsPapa]

I have been keeping shrimp for about three years, and have them in all ten tanks.  I have consistently struggled with keeping them alive in new tanks.  That might be the problem, though acclimation could also be to blame, assuming you didn't drip acclimate them.

[MattyM]

Do you know what your calcium readings are? Once I added some cuttlebone to my tanks my shrimps and snails have been doing much better, as well as feeding Crab Cuisine b/c it has calcium in it. 

[Merrick]

Appreciate the posts!

I'll check his videos as I have not seen them.  I have some wood extra wood in my existing tank and I can move it over.  I did purchase some Catappa leaves but haven't added them yet.  Is there any preference between the wood and Catappa?  I also pulled the fish out and it is shrimp only at this point, so going to feedings 2-3 times a week will be easy.

When I got the shrimp I floated them to normalize the temp and then drip acclimated them before putting them in the tank.  They were seemingly doing well until about week 2 when they started dying off. This has happened before with Amanos and the previous batch of RCS.  Clearly, I am missing something which is a little frustrating. I had planned to keep them in this tank get them breeding and then transition them to the main tank.  At this point just getting them to survive may have to be enough.

It is pretty easy to pick up a calcium test kit, so I'll test and see what I have. Looking at our local water company it appears the water is sourced from the Potomac River.  For a baseline I pulled the US Army Corp of Engineers water quality report and the calcium varied between 33 and 46 ppm over the course of 2021.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[nabokovfan87]

  

On 2/7/2023 at 1:46 PM, Merrick said:

Is there any preference between the wood and Catappa?

For me. Wood just lasts longer and doesn't deteriorate nearly as quickly.

On 2/7/2023 at 1:46 PM, Merrick said:

Clearly, I am missing something which is a little frustrating. I had planned to keep them in this tank get them breeding and then transition them to the main tank.  At this point just getting them to survive may have to be enough.

Getting them to live leads to everything. It's a puzzle for sure and @Chick-In-Of-TheSea had a similar experience where the deaths weren't really explained. I tend to point/nudge/push people to watch others who have that decade of videos because something might click and then everything starts to get rolling.  In the case above one of our thoughts was that the issue was not having enough aufwuchs. Again, I'm leaning towards that being something.  Shrimp should be grazing almost constantly. If they aren't then It's pretty obvious when you drop food and they just don't seem to be active.  Mark says that is a sign of bacteria issues, or can be. For me... It's so difficult to put into words but I really plan to try to help a bit more clearly when it comes to shrimp care.

If temp is too high, I add a lot of air. Even cooler, I add a lot of air. When things are stale or stagnant I will feed them food that the fish+shrimp will consume so things don't sit.  That waste leads to WCs and fresh, oxygenated water. As long as it's cycled, clean, and water parameters are good, then that leads to success for me.

I have a lot of time with amanos, neos I don't have any, need to. But I have done enough research to hopefully.... Like I said just nudge towards solid advice!

Edited February 7, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[JettsPapa]

On 2/7/2023 at 3:46 PM, Merrick said:

Appreciate the posts!

I'll check his videos as I have not seen them.  I have some wood extra wood in my existing tank and I can move it over.  I did purchase some Catappa leaves but haven't added them yet.  Is there any preference between the wood and Catappa?

 

 

It doesn't have to be either/or.  Add them both.  I'm fact, if you have access to some hardwood trees collect some dry fallen leaves, rinse them, and add them too.  Oak leaves are commonly added, but I've also used cottonwood, sycamore, and magnolia leaves.

[Merrick]

I moved the wood into the tank today and will see how things progress over the coming days. 

Also, good idea on the other leaves.  Will probably see how the things go with Catappa and once the are used up move to dry fallen leaves.  There are some hardwood trees in the neighborhood, so I can probably find some oaks leaves. Of course the neighbors may wonder why I am rummaging for leaves in their front yards... guess that will add an air of mystery about me... that or oddness... lol. 

 

Merrick

[jwcarlson]

I haven't tossed oak leaves in, personally, but I'm sure they're doing the same thing as Indian almond leaves.  I have put those in and it's amazing how much the shrimp eat those things.

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/8/2023 at 12:45 PM, Merrick said:

Of course the neighbors may wonder why I am rummaging for leaves in their front yards... guess that will add an air of mystery about me... that or oddness... lol. 

Just be very, very careful.  Smog, things like roads, those all pollute or add remnants to the leaves.  A good rinse or even soak before you add them might be useful.  Location away from roads, things like that is one of the "tricks" that people often share when collecting things for shrimp.

[Merrick]

Wanted to close the loop on this for all the folks that chipped in with recommendation and suggestions.  Some good news on the shrimp front. Significantly dialed back the feeding to around 2 times per week and added some Catappa leaves.  Out of my starting 14 RCS I managed to stabilize and keep 4 alive.  I should have had five left but dropped the lid into the water and pulled it out, unfortunately a shrimp had gotten on it and I did not notice it... so then there were four.  On the plus side in early April I noticed one of the two remaining females was berried and it spawned earlier this week.  So far I have observed two shrimplets and hopefully there are a few more in the tank.  There is a fair bit of algae on the glass (by design), so it is hard to see the new ones. Again just wanted to thank everyone who posted, I appreciated the help!