I switched from Co-op brine shrimp eggs to XXX and the results haven't been great for me. Advice would be great.

[Razberry910]

I posted this elsewhere on the internet and I didn't get any response maybe I'll find help here. Also this isn't supposed to be an Ad for Co-op eggs and I'll remove the name of the competitor.  

I had been using Aquarium Co-op brine shrimp eggs(I'll simply call them eggs from here on out). I assumed co-op was simply sourcing its eggs from the same place and adding its name and logo. Once I ran out of coop eggs I ordered several cans of premium eggs from XXX. I keep the unused can in the freezer and the current can in the refrigerator.

My hatcher is the ziss hatcher, API aquarium salt, no heater water is around 70-72.

With the coop eggs. I would add two tablespoons of salt and one tablespoon of eggs and let it tumble for about 48 hours then harvest. The egg shells would float to the top and be rather dark. The shrimp would be in the bottom and mid-water and harvest easily. The harvested shrimp would make a bright orange slurry. All the fish loved them I could watch the BBS wiggle in the water until a fish ate them. The eggshells would make a mess of whatever they touched when cleaning the hatcher. If I rinsed the hatcher in the tub a fine layer of shells would need to be cleaned up.

On to the XXX eggs. At first, I tried the same ratio. 2 tablespoons salt one tablespoon egg. This made a hot mess I assume way to many eggs. So I looked up the XXX directions. In my setup, it called for just over 3 tablespoons of salt and two small scoops of eggs. I've tried this for a week or so letting the eggs go for 24 hours checking their status and then letting them go for a total of 36-48 hatch time.

When I turn off the bubbler and let everything settle very few eggs seem to be at the top. A layer of brownish/orange coats the bottom of the hatcher. I can see brine shrimp wiggling with a light in the hatcher but they seem few and very small. I'm ok with them being small but I think most of the eggs aren't hatching. I try to draw the shrimp down with light then harvest, rinse, and feed. The harvested egg/shrimp mixture seems to be brownish orange vs bright orange. When I add them to a tank the fish seem excited and I think they are eating shrimp and unhatched eggs. Once the BBS hit the tanks I don't notice and wiggling they just look like brown/orange dots floating around.

I watched several YouTube videos comparing the two brands. My XXX hatches never look like the ones from the YouTube video. Which makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong. I have a ton of XXX eggs so I'm hoping to get this figured out. I can add pictures in a few days if that helps.

I checked my PH at the end of a hatching and it's around 8.0 I also placed a small heater in the hatcher set to 82. I checked the eggs at ~26 hours and they still seemed to mostly unhatched and sink to the bottom. I let the hatcher go another 12 hours and still the same result. 

So I have $200 worth of brine shrimp eggs from XXX that aren't hatching for me. I might contact XXX and see if they have any ideas. I might try selling my XXX cans to my local club.  I imagine I'll be going back to the Co-op eggs which have worked great I thought I could save a bit of money but that didn't work out. 

If anyone could give me some advice I'd appreciate it. 

 

 

[TheSwissAquarist]

From what it looks like the cold chain of the XXX eggs may have been broken, or the nauplii (BBS) are dead. 

What is the % hatch rate it claims to have?

 

[Razberry910]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:26 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

From what it looks like the cold chain of the XXX eggs may have been broken, or the nauplii (BBS) are dead. 

What is the % hatch rate it claims to have?

 

90%

[Schuyler]

If I remember correctly there are two main places that companies in the US source their eggs. I think it's like salt lake and San Francisco Bay? One of them is larger than the other.

If you look up the competitor do they say where they get them?

[Razberry910]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:49 AM, Schuyler said:

If I remember correctly there are two main places that companies in the US source their eggs. I think it's like salt lake and San Francisco Bay? One of them is larger than the other.

If you look up the competitor do they say where they get them?

I'm 99% sure XXX brand comes from salt lake.  As for the Co-op eggs I don't know

[TOtrees]

Couple suggestions:

- Share some eggs from XXX (what are these like x-rated eggs?) with a colleague or friend and have them try to hatch them out. 

- Buy a tiny batch of bbs eggs from your LFS and see if they hatch better. I'm guessing they will, but spending $5-$10 to (re)confirm your method works with new/good eggs might be worthwhile. 

- If all else fails, you'll have to get new eggs (from coop or elsewhere). Then you could decapsulate and freeze the "bad" ones. Decapsulated bbs are a common food, not quite as healthy/desirable as live bbs, but still better than throwing them out. 

[Andy's Fish Den]

I have used eggs from the company that is probably the biggest and most well know company for brine shrimp eggs, I'm sure you guys can figure it out. Anyways, I have never had the hatch rate and egg separation that I get with the eggs from the co-op. I would buy the eggs that are supposed to be 90% hatch, but I don't think I ever got over 75%, and the eggs did not float to the top like the co-op eggs do. Even though they cost more initially, I will buy the co-op eggs to use just because I feel I get better value, because of the hatch rate and the eggs floating, and its so much easier to strain the BBS out without getting eggs in with them. 

[Razberry910]

On 1/23/2023 at 2:13 PM, Andy's Fish Den said:

I have used eggs from the company that is probably the biggest and most well know company for brine shrimp eggs, I'm sure you guys can figure it out. Anyways, I have never had the hatch rate and egg separation that I get with the eggs from the co-op. I would buy the eggs that are supposed to be 90% hatch, but I don't think I ever got over 75%, and the eggs did not float to the top like the co-op eggs do. Even though they cost more initially, I will buy the co-op eggs to use just because I feel I get better value, because of the hatch rate and the eggs floating, and its so much easier to strain the BBS out without getting eggs in with them. 

Sounds just like my experience 

[Cory]

Ours are another source, and ours are actually a higher hate rated guaranteed to us, but we put lower on the can because we want to under promise and over deliver. I doubt most places are doing their cold storage correctly because its quite costly and in general, the cost of eggs has gone up a decent amount over the last few years. We pay to get the highest hatch rates possible. People like Dean rely on these eggs every day and so do his fry. We extensively tested vs every other major egg  we could find. Dean has been hatching brine shrimp daily for 40 years. We simply used him to make sure we had the best thing on the market. We focus on best, not on cheapest. In a day in age where we have less time than ever, a batch of brine shrimp needs to work. A failed hatch is sometimes the difference between life and death of a spawn of fish. Something we don't take likely.

It's unfortunately you're not having luck with the other company, I never want another hobbyist to have wasted money. I do hope you find a good outlet for them. I wish we could bring the price of our eggs down, but really we are fighting the price going up. If we can find a way to scale it down, we will pass it along to customers.

[Razberry910]

On 1/23/2023 at 4:40 PM, Cory said:

Ours are another source, and ours are actually a higher hate rated guaranteed to us, but we put lower on the can because we want to under promise and over deliver. I doubt most places are doing their cold storage correctly because its quite costly and in general, the cost of eggs has gone up a decent amount over the last few years. We pay to get the highest hatch rates possible. People like Dean rely on these eggs every day and so do his fry. We extensively tested vs every other major egg  we could find. Dean has been hatching brine shrimp daily for 40 years. We simply used him to make sure we had the best thing on the market. We focus on best, not on cheapest. In a day in age where we have less time than ever, a batch of brine shrimp needs to work. A failed hatch is sometimes the difference between life and death of a spawn of fish. Something we don't take likely.

It's unfortunately you're not having luck with the other company, I never want another hobbyist to have wasted money. I do hope you find a good outlet for them. I wish we could bring the price of our eggs down, but really we are fighting the price going up. If we can find a way to scale it down, we will pass it along to customers.

Thanks Cory. I just told my wife "speaking of Cory he just commented to this post".  

I appreciate all the content you've put out and going into the third year of my own business (totally not fish related) I've adopted the philosophy to offer top notch work and charge accordingly.

 

[dylaneff1]

I'm going to take a wild guess that XXX is Brine Shrimp Direct because that's what all of this taken together sounds like to me. No need to say one way or the other. I personally like both companies. In my experience, BSD's eggs require higher aeration and temperature to get a good hatch rate and are less consistent than the Co-op's. The Great Salt Lake is going through some pretty serious ecological changes that seems to be affecting the quality of the eggs. I'm switching over to the Co-op's eggs exclusively, but if you want to try to get a good hatch rate from the BSD eggs, I would try more air and higher temperature. I can just let the Co-op's eggs go for longer to increase yield at a lower temp, but that hasn't worked for me with BSD's. I have to get them above room temp for at least part of the hatching cycle.

[Razberry910]

On 1/28/2023 at 8:32 PM, dylaneff1 said:

I'm going to take a wild guess that XXX is Brine Shrimp Direct because that's what all of this taken together sounds like to me. No need to say one way or the other. I personally like both companies. In my experience, BSD's eggs require higher aeration and temperature to get a good hatch rate and are less consistent than the Co-op's. The Great Salt Lake is going through some pretty serious ecological changes that seems to be affecting the quality of the eggs. I'm switching over to the Co-op's eggs exclusively, but if you want to try to get a good hatch rate from the BSD eggs, I would try more air and higher temperature. I can just let the Co-op's eggs go for longer to increase yield at a lower temp, but that hasn't worked for me with BSD's. I have to get them above room temp for at least part of the hatching cycle.

thanks. I've agitated them pretty well. I've also tried heating to 82. and the last attempt room temp ~72 with salt add a half a teaspoon of baking soda. 48 hours later. still a sad hatch. I'll email the company maybe there's a bad lot or at least return thet hree un opened cans.

[Razberry910]

A quick update I handed out three samples of the XXX eggs to members of my fish club that hatch eggs on a regular basis. I received a text and picture that the XXX eggs hatched out just fine. I'll try getting my water from another source as my well water can run a bit acidic. Even if I can figure out the correct steps for the XXX brand I think I'll be switching back to Coop as they worked for me and were simple.  Since the XXX brand eggs are good I feel I can donate them to the club auction.

[Matt Armstrong]

@Razberry910, perhaps you could buffer your hatching water with a touch of baking soda?  From https://www.tfhmagazine.com/articles/freshwater/a-scientific-economic-and-commonsense-approach-to-brine-shrimp-hatching (which is an interesting read, with experienced and reputable authors):

Quote

Using Soft Water: People living in areas of soft water have often complained that they can’t hatch brine shrimp. Measure the pH of your shrimp solution before and after hatching. If it’s still not pH 8 or higher after they hatch then you need to add some buffer to your water. Add about ¼ teaspoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) per liter of hatching solution.

 

[AllFishNoBrakes]

On 2/20/2023 at 4:50 PM, Matt Armstrong said:

perhaps you could buffer your hatching water with a touch of baking soda?

I add the tiniest little dash to my Hatcher per I think it was @Irene as we are in the same area and it works great. Good tip!

[Razberry910]

On 2/20/2023 at 6:55 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

I add the tiniest little dash to my Hatcher per I think it was @Irene as we are in the same area and it works great. Good tip!

I tried the baking soda on one batch. I'll try again but this time I'll add baking soda to water and let it bubble for a day then check the PH level. Once I have the desired amount which I think is 8.0 I'll add salt and eggs and let em bubble for 24-48 hrs. 

[tolstoy21]

On 1/28/2023 at 8:32 PM, dylaneff1 said:

I'm going to take a wild guess that XXX is Brine Shrimp Direct because that's what all of this taken together sounds like to me.

I use BSD's premium eggs. I put them in the Ziss hatcher with 3 or 4 TBS of rock salt  (I use solar salt with no additives) and one tsp of baking soda. I let them percolate for about 36 hours at 78-80F. I've gotten excellent hatch rates from them for quite some time now.

How do you store the eggs? Freezer? Fridge? Both? (I do both).

[Irene]

On 2/20/2023 at 4:55 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

I add the tiniest little dash to my Hatcher per I think it was @Irene as we are in the same area and it works great. Good tip!

I ended up switching to just using 1 tablespoon of marine salt per 1 liter of water, and that's gotten the most consistent results for me. No more having to measure out separate NaCl salt and baking soda!

[Razberry910]

Thank you all for the assistance. I ultimately switched back to Coop brine shrimp eggs and I'm back to hatching a batch every other day. (I don't heat the hatcher so it hangs around 70f)

[Sammy]

Just my 2 cents... I've had very poor hatch rates with 3 different brine shrimp suppliers with my temperature around 75°-78°F because of my lack of a decent heater. 

Now I use the DIY bottle technique with a clear incandescent bulb in a small gooseneck lamp I found in my basement. I fiddled around the distance and even made a little cover over the bottle rack. It stays around 82°F pretty consistently now and my hatch rates have easily gone to 85-90% in 24hours. I also add a pinch of baking soda and one drop of bleach per liter (suggested by another forum - sorry). The bleach and chlorine from my tap water easily gas off so there's none going into your tanks when you feed. Switched back to Aquarium Co-ops eggs too - they seem to be a consistent color compared to others, not sure if that's a way to 'grade' them... but I've finally got it dialed in and won't change now.

Finding the temperature and recipe that works is worth the trial & error. BTW, write each recipe down so when you hit the sweet spot, you won't be guessing again.

Good luck 🙂