Angelfish setup/care

[J. Holmes]

Hi Everyone,

I’m thinking of getting a centerpiece fish for this tank. I’ve been educating myself on angelfish, and I’m not sure if this is a good setup for them. I know I’ll need to move my  danios bc of temp requirements for angels.  This tank is 29 gallons, but I’m not sure if it’s too “decorated” for angels. Thoughts? 
thanks so much! 

[Theplatymaster]

what other fish are in there? also what temp is is that you would need to move the danios. Angels are pretty temperature moderate and can tolerate like 72-82f. So unless its a coldwater tank, temperature wise it should be fine.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Theplatymaster

[J. Holmes]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:59 AM, Theplatymaster said:

what other fish are in there?

Ottos, Nerites, Endler livebearer, neon tetras, danios (they’ll have to move), and hillstream loach. 

[Theplatymaster]

On 1/20/2023 at 11:02 AM, J. Holmes said:

Ottos, Nerites, Endler livebearer, neon tetras, danios (they’ll have to move), and hillstream loach. 

The neon tetras and endlers have a risk of getting eaten by the angelfish when it gets big, so angelfish might not be the best option for this tank.

[J. Holmes]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:59 AM, Theplatymaster said:

what other fish are in there? also what temp is is that you would need to move the danios. Angels are pretty temperature moderate and can tolerate like 72-82f. So unless its a coldwater tank, temperature wise it should be fine.

Ottos, Nerites, Endler livebearer, neon tetras, danios, and hillstream loach. Thanks for the temp info. I was reading where the angels like 80 and that would be a bit too high for the danios. I have the tank at about 76 right now 

Edited January 20, 2023 by J. Holmes

[Lennie]

That's a pretty tank! 🙂

We kinda had a similar talk about Angelfish keeping couple days ago. I'm sharing the topic below if you missed it!

I have 29g with similar design, lots of plants, some rocks and two driftwood. I searched a lot for keeping some angels there. I love their look!! Now looking at my 29g after a year, considering the thickness of the substrate and floating plants, they cut the height of the tank much more. Angelfish seem to enjoy tanks with height of 50cm or more even normally. 29g generally comes with 40cm height right? At least mine is. So, 40 cm height, with 5-7 cm substrate and some space left on top/floating plants, not an ideal height is left for an angelfish imo. You end up approximately 30ish cm height on your hands. Some angels can be  20ish cm tall once they are adults.

Also as @Theplatymaster mentioned, angelfish are advised to be kept with bigger tetras, and neons and endlers are not a good tank mate in this regard. I've read once that someone's angel has eaten even his rummynose. People were discussing even the rummynose's size as a suitable tank mate. Neons and endlers much smaller than an average rummy nose. That would be very risky.

I've never kept them personally but I read A LOOT of experiences about them last year. And I decided not going for them in my 29g after all things I've read.

Now im considering to keep them in my 125L, but still so unsure.

 

 

 

 

[Jurrian Hering]

My first fish tank was actually a 29 with an angel in it. And as a complete noob I put him in there with some neons and safe to say eventually all of neons ended as a snack. Personally, I'd look to another center piece fish if you want to keep some of the smaller schooling fish with it. As far as temps go i kept the tank at 70 degrees and never had an issue. I know that's a bit lower than the internet says but it kept the aggression down between the angel and the other fish. (Except the neons lol).

 

A cool substitute could be a pearl gourami, or possibly some honey gourami's. With that tank id love some south American dwarf cichlids personally. Some Bolivian Rams or Appistos could look great in there. Or maybe a Nanacara Anomala would be a good slightly less common fish that could look great in there. 

[J. Holmes]

On 1/20/2023 at 12:47 PM, Jurrian Hering said:

My first fish tank was actually a 29 with an angel in it. And as a complete noob I put him in there with some neons and safe to say eventually all of neons ended as a snack. Personally, I'd look to another center piece fish if you want to keep some of the smaller schooling fish with it. As far as temps go i kept the tank at 70 degrees and never had an issue. I know that's a bit lower than the internet says but it kept the aggression down between the angel and the other fish. (Except the neons lol).

 

A cool substitute could be a pearl gourami, or possibly some honey gourami's. With that tank id love some south American dwarf cichlids personally. Some Bolivian Rams or Appistos could look great in there. Or maybe a Nanacara Anomala would be a good slightly less common fish that could look great in there. 

So I would LOVE Rams… but I’m VERY new to fish keeping and can’t devote a lot of time to tank upkeep. When I was reading about Rams, I saw where they required a lot of water changes: 3 times a week. This true? 

[Jurrian Hering]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:11 AM, J. Holmes said:

So I would LOVE Rams… but I’m VERY new to fish keeping and can’t devote a lot of time to tank upkeep. When I was reading about Rams, I saw where they required a lot of water changes: 3 times a week. This true? 

I’d say a Bolivian would be a great beginner cichlid (about to purchase a group for myself) maybe hold off from the German blues who can be a bit more finicky.

as far as the water changes that’s a misleading number. The way I set my tanks up is to only have to change water around once or twice a month at most. It’s all about your tanks ability to process excess nutrients. So in heavily planted tanks with low levels of stocking you may not need to change as much. 

Thats where testing your water come in handy to get an idea when to change if that makes sense. I generally test my water every Sunday and if I notice a level too high I’ll change other wise I won’t. Everyone does this a bit differently but that’s worked for me for the past few years.

[knee]

I agree with @Jurrian Heringon the Bolivian Rams. These fish are hardy, has tons of personality and have amazing color if you're patient enough. I had a female in quarantine and after the third day she started to recognize me and would act like how Oscars would when begging for food. You can keep a pair in the 29g with some pygmy cories, any nano rasbora/tetra and otos. They will do fine at temps between 77-80 which gives you more choices with tankmates.

[Lennie]

On 1/20/2023 at 9:53 PM, knee said:

You can keep a pair in the 29g with some pygmy cories, any nano rasbora/tetra and otos.

He already has it stocked with danios, ottos, nerites, neons and endlers! 😄

So yea, bolivian ram may meet the others temperature need the best I believe.

On 1/20/2023 at 9:11 PM, J. Holmes said:

they required a lot of water changes

I'm not sure about this statement. Generally, as long as you aren't keeping really sensitive species, it is a good idea to record your nitrate build ups whenever you reach 40ppm or wherever you wanna keep it at.  Once it settles in a schedule with your stocking/plant growth, thats your normal water change routine. Even it does not hit 40 by the end of the week, generally it is a good idea to make water changes at least once a week I believe. In nature, the water is almost always circulating and changing. Doing 3 small water changes/week instead of a big one once sounds good on paper, but also really hard to find time to do for most people.

What are you school sizes btw? As long as you keep the water tested and keep up with the water changes, I see no harm adding a centerpiece fish. But lets be real, a bigger group of neons or danios could be better than keeping two small sized  schools of them. I can't really see the schools in this pic, if they are there.

Also your plants in general seem to be mostly root feeders. Plants are always great to have,  They help with water quality a lot. If you like the look of floating plants, maybe you may consider adding some to your tank! A school of zebra danios, ottos, endlers, and neons with a ram might be a bit on the overstocked size based on the school sizes. I keep my overstocked 29 gallon with weekly water changes, and it only reaches 20 ppm nitrate at the end of the week. But I have lots of salvinia, duckweed and elodea as floating plants including heavy root feeders like yours! Also floating plants block direct light for slow growers too so they are less likely to get covered with algae over time!

If you like the look of any, go for it.

Probably not duckweed tho. So many people hate it and it is really hard to get rid of once introduced. 

 

Water changes are kind of a personal topic btw. Everyone can recommend something different based on their own experiences. This is mine 😄 and I guess plants are universal good 🐣

Edited January 20, 2023 by Lennie

[anewbie]

You can keep a single angel in a 29 but i generally don't recommend it. Also they can as full grown adults eat endlers and neon. The problem is a 29 just doens't have a lot of swimming space for an adult angels. Conversely angels don't normally swim a lot but if they get spooked they can seriously injured themselves in a small aquarium. A 2 year old male can be quite large but typically females are going to be quite a bit smaller so I'd go with a female in a 29. 

-

GBR tend to be fragile and if you are going to get a dwarf cichild esp first time i'd go with something more robust. On the 'pretty' side apistogramma borelli are pretty hearty and you could keep a nice male in there. It isn't a large fish so as a centerpiece you might be disappointed but i think it woud look nice in that aquarium.

-

Personally i think a male borelli  is a nicer looking fish than a bolivian ram and it is a more elegant but smaller fish. Also they can handle a wide range of water types and temperature.

Edited January 20, 2023 by anewbie

[J. Holmes]

On 1/20/2023 at 2:44 PM, Lennie said:

He already has it stocked with zebra danios, ottos, nerites, neons and endlers! 😄

So yea, bolivian ram may meet the others temperature need the best I believe.

I'm not sure about this statement. Generally, as long as you aren't keeping really sensitive species, it is a good idea to record your nitrate build ups whenever you reach 40ppm or wherever you wanna keep it at.  Once it settles in a schedule with your stocking/plant growth, thats your normal water change routine. Even it does not hit 40 by the end of the week, generally it is a good idea to make water changes at least once a week I believe. In nature, the water is almost always circulating and changing. Doing 3 small water changes/week instead of a big one once sounds good on paper, but also really hard to find time to do for most people.

What are you school sizes btw? As long as you keep the water tested and keep up with the water changes, I see no harm adding a centerpiece fish. But lets be real, a bigger group of neons or danios could be better than keeping two small sized  schools of them. I can't really see the schools in this pic, if they are there.

Also your plants in general seem to be mostly root feeders. Plants are always great to have,  They help with water quality a lot. If you like the look of floating plants, maybe you may consider adding some to your tank! A school of zebra danios, ottos, endlers, and neons with a ram might be a bit on the overstocked size based on the school sizes. I keep my overstocked 29 gallon with weekly water changes, and it only reaches 20 ppm nitrate at the end of the week. But I have lots of salvinia, duckweed and elodea as floating plants including heavy root feeders like yours! Also floating plants block direct light for slow growers too so they are less likely to get covered with algae over time!

If you like the look of any, go for it.

Probably not duckweed tho. So many people hate it and it is really hard to get rid of once introduced. 

 

Water changes are kind of a personal topic btw. Everyone can recommend something different based on their own experiences. This is mine 😄 and I guess plants are universal good 🐣

Schools are pretty basic sizes:  1 Otto (others crawled in the filter and didn’t make it 🤦🏻‍♀️), 8 celestial pearl danios, 8 endlers, 10 tetras, 3 Nerites, a loach.  I forgot to mention my sailfin plates: 5 of those. They’re currently in quarantine and about to be introduced. 
 

I’ve just added CO2 to my tank to increase plant production. My plants are mostly root feeders. I do have 2 anubias and two TINY ferns (struggled with those). Thinking of adding more ferns. Carpeting Monte Carlo is starting to work after CO2.

[J. Holmes]

I’ve been reading up on the ram and apistogramma borelli. Both stay low to the ground and like caves. How would they get along with my hillstream who loves the rock caves and ground feeds as well? Also, how many would I keep? Male and female? Just male for centerpiece? 

[anewbie]

On 1/20/2023 at 6:11 PM, J. Holmes said:

I’ve been reading up on the ram and apistogramma borelli. Both stay low to the ground and like caves. How would they get along with my hillstream who loves the rock caves and ground feeds as well? Also, how many would I keep? Male and female? Just male for centerpiece? 

The tank has too many fishes for a 'breeding' aquarium so I would just get  male. While you can breed in a community aquarium that aquarium just has too many fishes - it would make the female a nervous wreck. I don't think the hillstream loach will be an issue with a single male.

[Bill]

I have two angels that I bred and ended up keeping, in a similar setup 29 gallon tank with 10 rummy nose tetras, and they're fine. The substrate might be a little bit lower, and I keep the tank filled to the black rim, they have plenty of room.  Your tank looks great! 

[J. Holmes]

On 1/21/2023 at 5:45 AM, anewbie said:

The tank has too many fishes for a 'breeding' aquarium so I would just get  male. While you can breed in a community aquarium that aquarium just has too many fishes - it would make the female a nervous wreck. I don't think the hillstream loach will be an issue with a single male.

Thanks so much! Another thing I’ve been reading is that Rams like a sandy substrate bc they like to sift through it. I have Eco-Complete for my plants. Is this too rough for them? 

[anewbie]

On 1/21/2023 at 2:58 PM, J. Holmes said:

Thanks so much! Another thing I’ve been reading is that Rams like a sandy substrate bc they like to sift through it. I have Eco-Complete for my plants. Is this too rough for them? 

Most dwarf cichild are going to prefer a sandy substrate...