Angelfish in a 40 breeder?

[Yanni]

I wanted to do a couple angelfish in my 40 breeder and was possibly thinking of keeping a pair. It is an aquascaped tank with 10 black emporer tetras, 7 longfin bronze corydoras, 4 kuhli loaches, some amano shrimp, and a million trumpet snails. Lots of plants and harscape so I was just wondering if a pair or two of angelfish would work in this tank? 

[TheSwissAquarist]

50 gallons is my benchmark, but I think you could get away with a pair of one of those smaller varieties (P. Leopoldi) 

[Lennie]

This seems to be very controversial when it comes to Angels. I've been searching on this for myself for my new 125L cube, or even for my 29g a year back. 

Some people say 55g the least for a group, others say you can keep some in a 29g. Aquarium coop has a video about Dean's experience with angels for 50 years. I'm sharing the video below in case you haven't seen it yet! He also suggests 29g minimum and up to 4 adults especially in a community type of tank.

The thing is, when u start keeping them as juviniles with a school, it is likely that they get paired at some point and likely you gotta seperate them afterwards as they are tend to be "not realy an angel" at that point. No? It sounds like you gotta be ready to seperate them anytime even if you keep them in 50g+

I thought about keeping a few in my 29g before, but I ended up not going for it. Looking at my 29g with plants and everything rn, It feels like way too small even for a few angels,  and the substrate on bottom and floting plants on top really cuts the height of the tank. At least in my scenario.

The thing about angels is, the height seems to play an important role as much as the gallons. I think 50cm(about 20'') seems to be the minimum height they need from what I've been reading. 40 breeder also has about 40cm height right? 

Also I'm not sure an angel couple will do well in a community tank. They tend to be agressive, even versus each other sometimes as a pair. 

I would love to hear about others experiences as I've been always cautious of keeping them in my tank sizes. Will be closely following this one!

Cheers,

 

Here is the video in case you've missed it!

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Lennie

[Andy's Fish Den]

I would and have kept several angels in a 40 breeder many times. The hard part will be managing aggression if you have a pair, the pair will harass the others and drive them away, often hiding in the corners of the tank. Now, if you want a pair in the tank, I would either buy a verified pair, or get a group and raise them until you have two pair off and remove the others. When I raised angelfish years ago, I kept my pairs in 20 gallon tall tanks, so a pair in a 40 will be plenty big, especially if you are scaping it. 

[Lennie]

@Andy's Fish Den Hey Andy!

Do you think that keeping around 2-3 juvinile angels in a community tank is a good idea? When they grow up, do adults still do well in small groups even if they are not paired? Or do they still be agressive versus others in a community tank and/or versus each other?

Would like to hear if you have such experience :)!

Thanks in advance!

[Andy's Fish Den]

It can be a toss up. I have kept angels in a community tank setting and not had any issues. Now, I wouldn't put any fish that could fit in their mouths in the tank with them. But, on th flip side, I have had some angels that were total jerks towards other fish. I think if you get some young ones, say body size quarter to half dollar size and raise them in the tank with other fish that would be a good idea. That way they all grow together. 

[anewbie]

You can keep runts; young angels and females but an adult male is simply too tall for a 40B. There are other issues around tank size; aggression and so forth but those are relevant for all tanks. I highly recommend you keep either a smaller fish or buy a taller aquarium for angelfishes. There is a 50 and 65 that are the same foot print as a 40B but taller.

 

There is also a huge variance in behavior of adult angelfishes. Right now I'm dealing with an aggressive female that is dive bombing everyone in my 120 - of the 5 angels she is the only aggressive one and i'm tempted to remove her; having said that she also likes to dive bomb the festum until they turn on her since they are twice her mass that is enough to get her to back down. In the past i've have had well behave females but generally the females are less predictable and more aggressive of the two sexes. The males will bicker with each other but once a pecking order is established things tend to tone down. Even if the angels are well behaved as youngsters their behavior will change as they mature and they may change a second time as they get older. In something like a 50 i would recommend 2 angels as most combos have a high chance of working (m/m,f/f,m/f) but some folks have success with crowding angels though they are not small fishes and that limits the number you can keep in a smaller aquarium. In my 120 the most i've had is 8 (which is not crowding) but they did establish dynamic that pretty much worked for 3 or 4 years. It was 1 female and 7 males. 

 

Sadly when they are young - and despite their behavior as youngsters you just can't predict how they will behave when they will mature. The worse scenario i had was once i started with 6 younsters; it became 2 females and 4 males. The bossy female killed everyone but her mate so i ended up with 2 angels.

Edited January 18, 2023 by anewbie

[AllFishNoBrakes]

I keep my Angels a couple of different ways. 6 started out in my 55 community tank, and they would form pairs and breed as they pleased. Yes, they get territorial and slightly aggressive towards the other Angels when they’re spawning, but that’s to be expected. Now, I have 4 Angels in the 55 gallon community tank, and the pair of specialty (Panda) Angels was moved to a separate tank to pair off and breed as raising those fry are more worth my time as I get a little more for them. 
 

Overall, I knew that Angels were cichlids and were gonna do cichlid things. They bicker every once in a while, but the 55 gives everyone enough space to chill out, even when the pair is breeding in there. Even the breeding pair when spawning don’t really care about the Cardinal Tetras and the Albino Cory’s. The Cardinals kinda stay on the other side of the tank and the Cory’s stay at the bottom so it has worked well in my experience. I like the 55 over the 40b strictly due to height as Angels are tall fish.