Help

[TJfm1990]

I have a community tank (I recently got due to a family member being sectioned )  with 2 African dwarf frogs, 1 not aggressive male beta, 8 platy fish, a couple auto’s, a juvenile bristle nose Pleco and a 2 apple snails. 
 

I did a water change 2 days ago and treated the water with my normal water treatment stuff. While the filter was shut down I did a quick clean of the propeller and changed the mesh that is tied around the filter intake. Last night I added a piece of drift wood from an older set up (properly cleaned) with some Java moss and Java fern. He was sectioned 2 weeks ago and when I got the tank it was a wreck. Filter cartridge hadn’t been changed in god knows how long. I also added a new heater last night (he had one too small for the temp we keep the houses  and the temp was a few degrees lower than it should have been). I didn’t make any changes to the inside of the HOB other than clean the bottom (I kept it wet) compartment where the propeller was super gross. About an hour ago I noticed 3 platy fish dead and a fourth on its side so I’m guessing at least 4 will be gone. 2 other platy seem to be struggling and are just at the bottom of the tank not really moving and one is diagonal with it’s face towards the substrate. I noticed a bit of an oily looking slick on the surface of the water and some bubbles formed on the opposite side of the filter. I immediately tested for ammonia and it tested at between 0.5-1 and seeing as the fish were struggling I immediately did a 40% water change and vacuumed. The frogs seem to be acting funny. Other than that the auto’s, Beta, Snails and bristle nose (oh and some ghost shrimp) all seem to be fine. After the water change I tested for Nitrite and Nitrate and both are at 0 PH. There were 2 male and 6 female platy. The three largest female were the ones I found dead and one of the male (died while doing water tests and writing this) after the water change the other struggling ones and two smaller ones seem to be acting more normally. During the water change I removed the drift wood as that seems to be the only major change. The heater is brand new out of the box. My cousin was new to fish keeping and went from just the Beta to upgrading tank size and adding new fish and stuff over the course of about 2 months. He asked me to give him advice setting up the new tank and kind of listened. He used some Fluval aqua soil (he wanted to make a hobbit town looking tank) and capped it with a layer of gravel and white sand. There patches of dwarf grass, a Java moss covered coconut shell hide space, when I got it he had stones with Java moss that was brown and a piece of wood with a stemmed plant glued on and brown Java moss. He had a bunch of fake moss balls and other than that some decorations he liked (one is also covered with brown Java moss). Since getting the tank I’ve slowly been removing the fake stuff and stuff with dead Java moss. I’ve in turn added live plants mostly different kinds I glued to rocks and two Java fern covered flexible metal stuff I grabbed from shops. I haven’t planted anything to avoid messing with the cap and allowing the soil to get into the water. I had two potted plants in one of my tanks I intended on planting but I moved them to this tank when I got it. Everything has gone smoothly and everything was acting normal and happy. I added the Java moss / fern drift wood last night and fed them and all was fine. When I turned the light on before work everything appeared fine but I didn’t take a lot of time to inspect things, just turned the light on as I left. I don’t think I inspected it enough to have noticed the oily looking stuff at the top. But I know there were no dead fish / it wasn’t a platy void like when I returned. Two dead fish were in one of the artificial floating plants he had for fry to hide (I’ve removed that as well) and one was stuck to the filter. Neither had been dead long enough for the shrimp or snails to start eating at them. I’ve used some paper towel to float at the top for a second to remove the oily looking stuff. The sponge filter I ordered for the tank arrived today and I’ll be adding that. 
 

Any ideas what could have happened? Anything suggestions on where to go from here? I know it’s late but I’ll be up for a bit. I don’t want to lose any more of them. The Java moss and fern were purchased at my local pet-co. I haven’t finished removing all the stuff with brown moss. I wanted to do it slowly as to not disturb things too much too quick. Seeing as I used water treatment stuff two days ago I didn’t add anything other than the simple tap water conditioner. I wasn’t sure if I should use more Stress Coat or Stress Zyme seeing as I just dosed the tank with it. I do have quick start and microbe-lift Xtreme water conditioner as well as API’s ammonia lock or whatever it’s called. I do does it daily and weekly with plant stuff (I’ll be ordering plant supplement stuff from here, but wanted to go through what I have. I personally have 5 tanks ranging from 5 gallon Beta to 50 or 55 gallon. All are heavily planted and I’ve never had a fish die off like this. The weird part to me is it is just the platy that seemed affected. The frogs were surfacing and more active than usual. Also 4 of the 5 platy around the same size (the bigger ones) are the ones that died. There’s two slightly smaller ones and one that is about half the size of the other 5. The one remaining large one and one of the mid-sized were at the bottom of the substrate and the one that died was also at the bottom but on its side, then it would swim somewhere else and settle on the bottom and go to its side. I thought it had died multiple times before it had. I’ve been doing fish for a decent amount of time and haven’t ever experienced something like this. I’ve had my ammonia spikes (worse than this) and lost a guppy or two, or a Molly. The ammonia was at 0 the night of the water change. As I’ve been writing this and observing the tank the surviving platy are acting more normal as time goes on. The drift wood piece I put in last night shouldn’t have caused issues, it’s been used before, dried out and kept with my other wood in a covered plastic bin and was treated by boiling it before using it. I used the same glue I’ve always used. So I’m completely stumped atm.

[Boulder_Betta]

So sorry to hear about this, hope everything goes well. This really depends on how long the tank's been up and running, but a big red flag that I saw was that you're changing the filter cartridge. Don't. We've all made this mistake because the company is trying to sell more products, but in the big picture, this is a horrible idea that I wish I had learned about sooner. By replacing your filter, you're also replacing all of the beneficial bacteria that's been growing on it, so when you take that colony out, you should expect an ammonia spike when a new colony is developing to counteract the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. The solution to this? Simple: just rinse out the used cartridge in a bucket of 'dirty' tank water after a water change, then put it back in. That being said, I'm not sure what's causing the oily stuff at the top of the tank- I'm going through that in both of my tanks right now, but because they're biologically fine, I'm guessing that it's maybe residue from something I've touched without washing my hands enough afterwards- just a guess. Good luck!

Also- welcome to the forum!

[BeeD]

Boulder_Betta mentioned the filter cartridge, and that has also been my experience. If it's a carbon filled filter cartridge, the carbon may have neutralized the ammonia for now but that will starve the beneficial bacteria you need for the future. When the carbon becomes inert, there won't be enough bacteria to consume the ammonia. So imo you should treat this like a new tank. I would start using Fritz Zyme or Tetra Safe Start with water changes at the recommended doses, because when that carbon goes inert the nutrient levels are going to spike and you will want some beneficial bacteria in the tank ready to capitalize on it. 

For the surface oil, you can use a cup to skim water off the surface during water changes.

Also, for future use, I think you should research a good replacement for the filter cartridges and just go ahead and throw them inside the tank somewhere. The bacteria will start to colonize it, and then a few months from now you can get rid of that carbon cartridge for good. 

Corey has a good video on cartridge replacements, but in the past I've also used plastic (chemical free) pot scrubbies, Marineland bonded filter pads. Any spongy filter media you can jam in there will work better than those cartridges. 

 

[iwanttostayanonymous 92074]

On 12/10/2022 at 12:29 AM, TJfm1990 said:

About an hour ago I noticed 3 platy fish dead and a fourth on its side so I’m guessing at least 4 will be gone. 2 other platy seem to be struggling and are just at the bottom of the tank not really moving and one is diagonal with it’s face towards the substrate. I

I’m so sorry to hear that. I had the same thing happen to my community tank when I first got it. This is most likely due to ammonia positioning. I agree with Boulder_Betta and BrettD to not do anything to the filter cartridge unless absolutely necessary. I fixed my tank by putting in beneficial bacteria, daily tests, and 10–15 percent daily water changes until the ammonia and nitrite stay at a constant 0. I would recommend you to do the same.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:29 PM, TJfm1990 said:

About an hour ago I noticed 3 platy fish dead and a fourth on its side so I’m guessing at least 4 will be gone. 2 other platy seem to be struggling and are just at the bottom of the tank not really moving and one is diagonal with it’s face towards the substrate. I noticed a bit of an oily looking slick on the surface of the water and some bubbles formed on the opposite side of the filter.

First things first, add an airstone if you can. If you already have one, add another.

 

 

On 12/9/2022 at 9:29 PM, TJfm1990 said:

I immediately tested for ammonia and it tested at between 0.5-1 and seeing as the fish were struggling I immediately did a 40% water change and vacuumed. The frogs seem to be acting funny.

Frogs might be having skin irritation issues with the water quality.

BECAUSE ammonia is this bad, I would recommend your next water change be a big one.  BEFORE you do this.  Test the water and compare it to the tap water.  You'll want to run an off-gas test

1.  Take a sample from the tap, test everything you can.  PH, KH, GH being the big ones
2.  Take that same sample of water and aerate it for 24 hours, retest.
3.  Compare test #2 results to the tank, that is what the fish are acclimating to when you do your water changes.
 

 

On 12/9/2022 at 9:29 PM, TJfm1990 said:

I wasn’t sure if I should use more Stress Coat or Stress Zyme seeing as I just dosed the tank with it. I do have quick start and microbe-lift Xtreme water conditioner as well as API’s ammonia lock or whatever it’s called.

use one dechlorinator and one bacteria-in-a-bottle per day.  Dose once, minimum 24 hours apart.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:29 PM, TJfm1990 said:

The drift wood piece I put in last night shouldn’t have caused issues, it’s been used before, dried out and kept with my other wood in a covered plastic bin and was treated by boiling it before using it. I used the same glue I’ve always used. So I’m completely stumped atm.

Something might have leeched into the wood and it might now be an issues, but I don't think that's what is going on here.  It sounds a lot like Old Tank Syndrome and just too many organics have built up over time.  It is a shock to the fish and they likely are trying to acclimate to new care regime. 

Adding air helps, adding salt helps (but can't add that with the frogs/snails).

The main thing that is going to fix it is to clean everything really well, remove the built up junk in the substrate as best you can, and then going to a better water change schedule.

The other factor here is temperature.  I can't say what temp frogs want, I assume it's slightly cooler than the betta. I can't say what the temp was before it was in your care, but it was likely too low for at least one of the fish, but that's hard to say.  The reason I mention it is because when something is off like temperature, you do have a higher stress level on that fish, opens up potential for disease, and it's probably been lingering or nagging the fish, causing them to have issues when acclimating again.

There is a lot of "I think" assumptions in that string of sentences, but hopefully that helps to have the other perspective.

A very worthwhile video to help out with this situation too.

 

[TJfm1990]

On 12/10/2022 at 2:25 AM, Boulder_Betta said:

So sorry to hear about this, hope everything goes well. This really depends on how long the tank's been up and running, but a big red flag that I saw was that you're changing the filter cartridge. Don't. We've all made this mistake because the company is trying to sell more products, but in the big picture, this is a horrible idea that I wish I had learned about sooner. By replacing your filter, you're also replacing all of the beneficial bacteria that's been growing on it, so when you take that colony out, you should expect an ammonia spike when a new colony is developing to counteract the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. The solution to this? Simple: just rinse out the used cartridge in a bucket of 'dirty' tank water after a water change, then put it back in. That being said, I'm not sure what's causing the oily stuff at the top of the tank- I'm going through that in both of my tanks right now, but because they're biologically fine, I'm guessing that it's maybe residue from something I've touched without washing my hands enough afterwards- just a guess. Good luck!

Also- welcome to the forum!

Hi there. I helped him set it up. I had him include a sponge (I didn’t change the filter cartridge until 2 weeks ago) and I kept the sponge in there. All I did with the water change was I took the bottom off to clean the propeller and I change the filter intake mesh. The filter cartridge looks to have been the first one he put in and needed to be changed. I made sure to keep the sponge in + put some good bacteria in there when I did change the filter cart.