This is Dropsy isn't it updated reply

[GisheryGoodness]

Gabriel was doing so well, at least I thought he was. His fins were slowly growing back from fin rot at the end of August and possibly coming in another color but two days ago I noticed he looked bloated so I stopped feeding and have been watching closely he just got more lethargic and has clamped his fins and now I think it looks pinecone-y today. Everything I've read says dropsy is a death sentence and I'm feeling devastated but also wondering if maybe there's always been something wrong with him. I got him at the end of May this year. He was very picky about food at first, has gotten better but then got fin rot, seemed to have gotten better, at least I thought he was. He was happy, swimming around jumping up when I brought him food, ect. And now this. I've been meticulous with his tank so I'm pretty sure it's not a water issue. 

Anyway I've put salt in the tank for now but if there's any other advice I'll take it or either confirming I'm right or wrong. 

 

Tank 10 gallon 

Ammonia and nitrIte- 0

NitrAte - 10ish

Ph 7.4

Gh and Kh both 4 

Temp 79

I'm holding onto a bit of hope that I might be able to save him. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by GisheryGoodness

[TheSwissAquarist]

@Colu should now what to do. 
So sorry for you!

[Colu]

Does look like dropsy with the pineconing the most effective treatment I have found is a combination of kanaplex in food to treat any possible internal bacterial infection feeding a small amount twice a day for 7 days metroplex to treat the tank as it treats aeromonas and parasites  and aquarium salt 1 table for 2 gallons that will help reduce any  fluid buildup @GisheryGoodness

Edited November 26, 2022 by Colu

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@GisheryGoodness 😞 so very sorry Gabriel is sick. I really hope you can help him- Dropsy is extremely hard to "cure". I don't want to be too negative but because the symptoms start rather late in the disease it is often too late for a full recovery- that is NOT to say it hasn't happened, just be prepared for some hard days ahead. Make him comfortable and give him all his favorite foods. I would hold off on the Garlic guard if he's eating -mix the meds with bloodworms  and Focus (to bind the med). You can slightly thaw a block, mix then quicklly refreeze in a convenient container (I put it back in the mold it came out of cut out from the main case) then you can cut off and thaw medicated bits to feed him and save both food and meds. Though fish are attracted to garlic it might have some influence on organ failure which in this case a Dropsy patient may already have. 

 

[The endler guy]

On 11/25/2022 at 3:57 PM, GisheryGoodness said:

Gabriel was doing so well, at least I thought he was. His fins were slowly growing back from fin rot at the end of August and possibly coming in another color but two days ago I noticed he looked bloated so I stopped feeding and have been watching closely he just got more lethargic and has clamped his fins and now I think it looks pinecone-y today. Everything I've read says dropsy is a death sentence and I'm feeling devastated but also wondering if maybe there's always been something wrong with him. I got him at the end of May this year. He was very picky about food at first, has gotten better but then got fin rot, seemed to have gotten better, at least I thought he was. He was happy, swimming around jumping up when I brought him food, ect. And now this. I've been meticulous with his tank so I'm pretty sure it's not a water issue. 

Anyway I've put salt in the tank for now but if there's any other advice I'll take it or either confirming I'm right or wrong. 

 

Tank 10 gallon 

Ammonia and nitrIte- 0

NitrAte - 10ish

Ph 7.4

Gh and Kh both 4 

Temp 79

I'm holding onto a bit of hope that I might be able to save him. 

I’m going to say this until everyone knows it, dropsy isn’t a pathogen/ illness; it’s a symptom! Dropsy is just fluid filling the body cavity of a fish. We should not use it as a thing to treat, it should be used as a alert to other problems, similar how you don’t just treat a cough, you treat the reason for the cough and sometime if the cough is so bad you try to keep the pain down.

[Colu]

On 11/25/2022 at 11:25 PM, Aiden Carter said:

I’m going to say this until everyone knows it, dropsy isn’t a pathogen/ illness; it’s a symptom! Dropsy is just fluid filling the body cavity of a fish. We should not use it as a thing to treat, it should be used as a alert to other problems, similar how you don’t just treat a cough, you treat the reason for the cough and sometime if the cough is so bad you try to keep the pain down.

Yes dropsy   can  be caused by internal bacteria infection polycystic kidney disease internal parasites that why the treatment i recommended treat's a number of these to give a more broad spectrum treatment has been the most effective treatment I have seen used when your fish is suffering from bloating pineconing of the scale's  Popeye Loss of appetite 

[GisheryGoodness]

Thank you guys. I had to order the metroplex so hopefully it'll be here soon but have the kanaplex. I will see if he will eat. I didn't mention before that I moved him to the quarantine tank when I noticed the bloating starting two days ago because it's easier if it had been bloating to treat rather than his tank but made sure all parameters were the same and no sick fish have been in it. But idk I'm just trying to figure it all out. I've been checking his water twice a week since he got fin rot and it's never been off, do water changes once a week. I don't see how the water quality could have been poor enough to lower his immune system for whatever infection is causing the dropsy. I know sometimes fish have weaknesses but I still just am scrounging for anything I could have done wrong

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by GisheryGoodness
Double posted

[GisheryGoodness]

Gabriel died late last night or early this morning. My heart hurts and I feel like I should have done more though I don't know what. 

My question now is do I need to sanitize his tank, like filter and stuff too. I was planning on upgrading him to planted tank anyway. But idk what all I need to do after an illness especially since I'm not sure what he may have had. 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by GisheryGoodness

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I'm very sorry for your loss @GisheryGoodness- I know it's hard but as I said, Dropsy is very hard to cure and as @Aiden Carter pointed out and I already knew- Dropsy itself is not a disease just a symptom of other issues and by the time these symptoms (bloating, pineconing) manifest it is already too late, sadly. Even if you manage to get the symptoms down-- organ failure is often already well on its way. (I've managed in the past to cure the pineconing/bloating but my Betta didn't make it either). 

I threw away the tank I had my Betta in. After that I personally didn't trust it- it was the sort of tank that had its own internal filter and though I have a Fluval Flex9 now with a similar filtration system I've added a sponge to it. I had a feeling the filtration was part of the issue and maybe why my Betta got the infection to begin with. So I'd say yes, sanitize the tank- if it doesn't hurt toss the substrate. You can sanitize filters and hardscape by boiling it and leaving it in the sun to dry. Plants can be saved. Wash the tank and make sure it's rinsed well and dried. 

I've said it several times on this forum- Betta, despite what the industry says, are VERY hard fish to keep. Frankly I don't find that they are "beginner's" fish at all. They have a lot of specific requirements and because of the demand for more colorful, longer finned, specialized types of Betta they are bred for these features and NOT for health. They are sensitive fish- even the best of fish keepers struggle keeping them. This isn't a great thing to know nor is it something positive but it's something you can take a little comfort in. You did what you could. 

[GisheryGoodness]

On 11/27/2022 at 9:49 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

So I'd say yes, sanitize the tank- if it doesn't hurt toss the substrate. You can sanitize filters and hardscape by boiling it and leaving it in the sun to dry. Plants can be saved. Wash the tank and make sure it's rinsed well and dried. 

Thank you, can sponge filters be boiled? Like the actual sponge part or do I need to do something else for that part? 

Also sorry if it sounded like I was saying dropsy was the disease, I didn't mean to, I know it's a symptom but a fairly bad one. But also makes it kinda difficult to know what exactly he had so definitely don't want any future fishies to get whatever infection caused the dropsy so a bit paranoid about sanitizing. Can't afford to toss any equipment or I honestly would. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Yes, I've boiled water taken it off the heat THEN put the sponge in. I can tell you from experience the bases don't survive that so just wash that really well. 🙂 

On 11/27/2022 at 6:16 PM, GisheryGoodness said:

Also sorry if it sounded like I was saying dropsy was the disease

Don't worry about the above at all- I was only clarifying because @Aiden Carter rightly pointed out for misinformation's sake in case you didn't know or others come to read threads and see Dropsy as a "disease" -personally I don't think it really needs that much clarification unless the situation warrants it. Sometimes it's good to clarify that and advise people they are treating symptoms not the root of the problem- which sadly we don't always know/realize what that "root" is until it's too late. 

Those of use with experience (and this isn't a great badge to wear and I wear it) treating Dropsy know what it is and what's probably going to happen. 

On 11/27/2022 at 6:16 PM, GisheryGoodness said:

also makes it kinda difficult to know what exactly he had so definitely don't want any future fishies to get whatever infection caused the dropsy so a bit paranoid about sanitizing. Can't afford to toss any equipment or I honestly would. 

This is exactly it- we don't really know for SURE what causes fish to get to this point. Sanitizing DOES work. While most think it's a bacterial issue- bacteria can easily be killed by proper cleaning and time- even sunlight. Some people use vinegar, some use peroxide, some use dish soaps (I will only use Dawn if I go this route). Just rinse all equipment REALLY well after doing those. Boiling definitely works. I would also recommend checking out the forum's Reverse Respiration page (sanitation for plants with seltzer water which I've found very effective- just search Reverse Respiration in the forum and you'll bring the thread and instructions right up!). 

I would like to repeat, @GisheryGoodness, I'm really sorry you and your fish went through it. It sucks. I totally feel for you. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Colu]

You can use a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution to sterilize  your tank leave the fliter running and the hydrogen peroxide will break down over 24hr into oxygen and H20 then I wouldn't add fish to the tank for a minimum of 4 weeks as most pathogens won't survive with out host longer then 28 days and  you can add a small amount of fish food daily to the tank to feed your benefial bacteria it will help recycle your tank during the 4weeks while the tank has no fish in it