Coaxing out shy fish

[Celestial Pearl Daddyo]

Hi everyone. I have 20 Emerald Eye Rasboras in a 15 gallon cube and they almost never come out from behind a rock during the day, although they do swim around the tank when the lights are off. I started with 10 and bought 10 more to try and make them feel more comfortable, but the old inhabitants simply showed the new ones where to hide. I tried ramping up the lights more slowly and that seemed to help, but only for a few hours as I had people over to my apartment the day I tried that and I think the activity spooked them. I'm considering getting some dither fish, but would also love to hear if anyone has success with other approaches. I'd rather not put floating plants in my tank, because it's an open top tank. 

[AllFishNoBrakes]

In my opinion, it sounds like you already have the answers. Dithers and floating plants (even though you don’t want those). 
 

The real reason I wanted to comment is because your username is too good not to! 😂

[Celestial Pearl Daddyo]

Can I introduce dither fish into the tank, get the EERs comfy and coming out, and then take out the dither fish once they've warmed up? I'm wondering if anyone has tried that.

And thank you AllFishNoBrakes!

[AllFishNoBrakes]

I believe the whole idea behind dithers is either A) it shows shy fish that’s it’s okay to be out in the open or B) fish that like to hide get annoyed with another fish constantly in their space so they just give up and come out into the open. I have no clue if taking the dithers out (assuming they do their job in the first place) will cause the shy guys to revert to their shy behavior. 

[PineSong]

Could it be the intensity of the light, rather than the rate that the lights ramp up? Maybe you could run your light at a lower intensity overall, and then increase it slowly over time and notice when they go back to hiding.

Also, some plants which are not technically floating, like tiger lotus, can provide shaded areas by putting up lily pads, and you can cut off some pads if they are covering too much of the top. If you do add floaters, you could add something less likely to get out of hand, like frogbit which is easy to remove, or salvinia which in my tanks is easy to remove and doesn't breed like rabbits due to surface agitation (in other words, not duckweed!)

[NofishB4]

Adding tannins to the water might help too. It’ll darken the water so not as much light gets through. If you were thinking a dither fish I have found chili rasboras to be pretty confident and they stay small, have a really interesting swim pattern, BRIGHT red and like similar water parameters 

[Guppysnail]

Do you have a tank photo. Often times fish that dislike bright light will do well with a full tank of plants so there is shade everywhere. Guppy grass is a great one to fill and offer shade without going the floater route. 
 

I’ve added dithers for shy fish then removed them after the originals became active and it helped until I removed the dithers. Then back to hiding. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

As an experiment, try turning the filter off. Maybe like 20 minutes.  See if they start to come out.  If they do, you'll know the issue is that the current in the tank was too strong for them.

[Odd Duck]

Open top tanks benefit the most from floaters since they tend to reduce the risk of fish jumping out plus reduce evaporation.  Maybe consider red root floaters since those are very easy to remove and very pretty, and especially with good lighting, can get quite a nice red.  They also don’t get such long roots that they can become problematic.  Frogbit is very easy to remove, too, but can sometimes get excessively long roots depending on conditions.  Salvinia especially likes open top tanks since it really hates being dripped on, plus it’s also easy to remove and has a great texture.

I do love a dwarf lily but it would likely seriously outgrow a 15 gallon cube pretty fast.  Maybe a smallish sword plant with long stems, like a radicans variant so the leaves are held high for some shade/cover but the fish can still easily slip through the stems?  Look at Echinodorus harbich, E. ‘Yellow Sun’, and E. cordifolius ‘Marble Queen’ and see if one of them might suit your tank.

There are some fish that just tend to hide more, but most mid to top water species tend to hide less if they have more places to hide.  They feel more confident when hiding places are more easily accessible and abundant.  Tannin tints can also be very helpful.  You don’t usually have to go full blackwater to get the fish more comfortable.

I wish you good luck.  It can be tricky to get some to come out reliably, once they’ve developed the habit.  Usually needs a change in environment of some sort.

[Celestial Pearl Daddyo]

Thanks to all of you who responded! Here are some photos of my tank. It's a mountain scape so I'm trying to get a carpet going all around it and have lots of negative space. You can see my problem, the fish have nowhere to hide, and I'm trying to keep the scape to a minimum. That said, I just put in some of the stem plants in the back of the mountain and that seemed to help a bit. The fish were coming out to the front of the tank a little last night. It's funny, everything seems to help a little - a slow ramp up, adding more rasboras, lowering the flow, floating plants, stem plants, adding corydoras as dither fish - but eventually the fish go back to their hiding. Usually they get spooked when I walk by or put my hand in the tank to clean, for example, and then won't come out for hours. Before I rescape the back of the tank and fill it with dense stem plants and completely throw off all my hard work building a wrap around mountain, I'm going to try a few guppies as dither fish. Would 3 be enough or do I need more? (Apologies: for some reason I can't rotate the photos)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Celestial Pearl Daddyo

[Odd Duck]

If you edit your photos, remove the current linked ones, and re-link the edited ones, they will stay correctly oriented.  I always try to crop my photos before I link them, even if it’s only a tiny bit, just to keep them oriented the right way.

I think you’ll have to provide more hiding places if you want to see your fish more than a glimpse here and there.  Or pick a different species that is a more open water fish.

[Celestial Pearl Daddyo]

Right, I'm considering swapping out the fish. But I just fell in love with these Emerald Eye Rasboras. They're so chic: muted but with a rainbow opalescent sheen, bright blue eye and black spot on their fins. They also school so tightly and when they are not feeling shy they move so elegantly around the mountain I built for them. I'm surprised they are not more popular, but maybe their shy behavior keeps them out of some tanks? I'm going to try a combination of lower flow, dither fish, more cover and feeding only in the front of the aquarium to see if I can get them to come around over time. I'm also wondering if over the course of weeks they'll get more comfortable with me. I thought they were tank raised but now I'm thinking they might be wild caught - so maybe they need time to adjust to being in an aquarium.

And thanks for the tips about photos. I fixed them.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Celestial Pearl Daddyo

[Odd Duck]

They are pretty.  Very subtle beauty.  I hope your dither fish do the trick.  When you say they school tightly, that can be a sign of stress when fish school very tightly.  Most will school more loosely when comfortable.  That’s one of the reasons why rummynose tetras are so popular.  They tend to school more tightly than most species, even when comfortable.  You’ll see them a lot in the aquascapers competition tanks for the visual effect they get from that tight school.

You might be able to do some very fine-leaved stem plants.  It would suit their subtle beauty without blocking your sight of them, but still give them a feeling of more security.  I can picture them schooling in and out of super fine leaved plants like Cabomba.  Gorgeous!

[Celestial Pearl Daddyo]

Thanks for all this advice! And I know what you mean about fish stress and schooling, but I think that Emerald Eye Rasboras naturally school very tightly even when comfortable. That's why I got them and I wasn't disappointed. Really amazing little fish. And yes, a bushy fine leaved plant may be just what I need. Thanks again for your advice.

 

 

[Odd Duck]

On 10/28/2022 at 9:54 AM, Celestial Pearl Daddyo said:

Thanks for all this advice! And I know what you mean about fish stress and schooling, but I think that Emerald Eye Rasboras naturally school very tightly even when comfortable. That's why I got them and I wasn't disappointed. Really amazing little fish. And yes, a bushy fine leaved plant may be just what I need. Thanks again for your advice.

 

 

Can’t wait to see it happening!

[Celestial Pearl Daddyo]

@Odd Duck Should I add Endler's or Guppies as dither fish? And how many should I add? I'd like to add as few as possible.

[Odd Duck]

On 10/28/2022 at 11:42 AM, Celestial Pearl Daddyo said:

@Odd Duck Should I add Endler's or Guppies as dither fish? And how many should I add? I'd like to add as few as possible.

I would go with 2-3 male endlers so you don’t end up with extras, they’re smaller than guppies but still bold enough to act as dithers.  They also don’t usually care much about needing to be in groups.  I would also look for mutts some as plain as possible so they don’t upstage your rasboras.

If you wanted a more subtle fish, you could go with an even smaller rasbora from the micro rasbora group, like Boraras maculatus that has subtle colors (as compared to a chili), Boraras urophthalmoides is another, or really any in the genus.  You would run the risk of having 2 schools of fish hiding from you, though.  😆  If the tank is right, they will all be comfortable, and be out and swimming.

[Celestial Pearl Daddyo]

Quick update. I began an attempt to train the fish to come out to the front of the tank by turning off the filter and tapping a few times on the aquarium stand before putting food only in the front of the tank. I was shooting for a Pavlovian response that would entice them to come out more. I previously tried @Chick-In-Of-TheSea's advice of turning off the filter to see what happens - nothing did - but this time I waited even longer. I wanted the cory's to eat all the food so that when I turned the filter back on the current wouldn't pick up food particles and feed the fish that didn't come out. Anyway, after about 20 minutes not only did the rasboras come out, but the cory's and the scarlet badis seemed to be more adventurous too. I have a Fluval FX2 on my tank turned all the way up, so I knocked it back to half power and since then the rasboras have been coming to the front of the tank! They've also been playing in the current at the outflow. I'm holding my breath though, since every time I make changes they seem to respond well, only to go back to their old ways. However, I'm hoping I might have found some sort of a solution, and won't need to resort to dither fish at the moment. Thanks again everyone for your help!