My dying wish is a tank full of healthy crypts

[PerceptivePesce]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:35 PM, Patrick_G said:

I’m dosing Easy Green at the med/high light level, about 2ml/g once a week.

Pardon me, when you say 2ml/g, do you mean 2ml per 1 gallon?

[Jess]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:22 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

Pardon me, when you say 2ml/g, do you mean 2ml per 1 gallon?

Oooohhhh good catch!!!  No I meant 2ml/ 10 gallons.  Major typo.  Thanks for catching that!  I'll fix it.

 

EDIT: Whoops, I just noticed that was @Patrick_G who said that...so I don't know if that's a typo or not.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Jess

[PerceptivePesce]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:26 PM, Jess said:

Oooohhhh good catch!!!  No I meant 2ml/ 10 gallons.  Major typo.  Thanks for catching that!  I'll fix it.

 

EDIT: Whoops, I just noticed that was @Patrick_G who said that...so I don't know if that's a typo or not.

You did post 1ml/g in response to Patrick_G. 

In post #5 in this thread

[Jess]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:32 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

You did post 1ml/g in response to Patrick_G. 

In post #5 in this thread

Yeah I didn’t find it because I was searching “2ml/g”. Suffice it to say that wherever I have typed x ml/g I meant x ml/10 gal. 

[anewbie]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:55 PM, Jess said:

It's funny - I worried that my post would be too rant-y but I'm glad I made it because I've gotten a lot of feedback and fodder for thought.

I've been very interested in that topic Cory mentioned (and to which you replied) and I'm personally dying to go see my fish and plants in their natural habitat (Southeast Asia, but mostly the Greater Sunda Islands).  I actually found an ichthyologist who works in Singapore and has co-authored over 200 papers on fish from that area...I'm trying to get up the nerve to write him!  

To your point, I've heard from people who keep some of my blackwater fish that their eggs often mold, etc., in higher pHs and that the fish themselves can become more susceptible to certain illnesses at higher pH (what is "higher"? I'm not sure. No one ever really says, LOL).  I haven't been successful at breeding mine but I'm guessing my pH is the least of my problems for breeding - it's probably that the fry either starve or get predated on because I'm not quick and skilled enough to recognize when a pair needs to be moved. 

One thing I have considered is that there are a lot of micro environments in nature.  The crypts I'm trying to grow (or, any plants, for that matter) may in fact not grow at all where my fish are naturally living - even if they both live on the same island.  I think plants are prettier and easier-to-keep in my boxes of water compared to only decaying plant matter, so I want to keep plants...but I have considered that where my fish live the plants may not, even if the fish are actually adapted to that area and not merely tolerating it.  

My point is, and take it for what it's worth because Cory has infinitely more experience than I do at this game, it may be a combination of things.  He's totally right that a lot of the time fish are just adapting and surviving where they can for as long as they can in the wild and just because we find them in certain conditions that doesn't automatically mean those are the optimal ones or that the species may not thrive in other conditions.  Another thing - some fish are more delicate and sensitive than others I think?  My Sphaerichthys selatanensis seem to be a bit more fragile - last year, the temps in all my tanks dipped to 68-70 one unseasonably cold night and my heaters weren't on, and all my fish survived except the group of 12 S. selatanensis in which 3 passed away and the rest of them got stress ich (those 9 survived).  When more fragile fish come in, people may be even more inclined to decide that the fish needs very specific conditions like those in its type locality when in reality maybe the shipping was too hard on them, maybe they were already immunosuppressed, or maybe for some other reason they're just more fragile.  Plus, regarding the plants - they're probably not taken directly from the wild as often - and on the farms like Cory mentioned their conditions may be wildly different.  It may not even matter how many generations of farming they've undergone...we all know crypts are sensitive in general so it may be another case of stochasticity in nature...randomly some of them survive but the probability is low because they're being introduced into a harsh environment.  This is my take though...I'm not trying to speak for Cory, but rather offering my thoughts based on what he wrote and all of his videos that I've seen + stuff I've read, etc..

If you do get some crypts to grow in low pH, softwater conditions, I'll love it if you report back!  I have some growing (I just took pics today so they'll be in my post); it's just that my survival rate is really, really low.  This thread has helped me understand why. 

 

I'm clearly not trying to reproduce biotope because i'm mixing plants from africa and asia with sa plants. Also I can't speak for asia but in SA (which cory has visited multiple times) many areas where the fishes I'm interested in have very limited plant life in the water - there is significant more plant life growing on the banks and breaking the surface of the water - still i enjoy a well planted tank so that is another reason i am not trying to strictly reproduce  the natural environment. 

There are multiple reasons why eggs for some species won't hatch in different types of water - the bacterial in low ph water is different; in some cases the egg shell is impacted by water hardness (ph can be important but frequently hardness or tds is as or more important - again depending on the species). Sometime it is just the way it is... still very pure soft water tends to have low ph esp if you add a good chunk of leaf litter on top (or in actuality below) the water.... There are some great gourami as well as dwarf cichilid that absolutely require extremely soft acidic water to thrive.

[Jess]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:09 PM, anewbie said:

I'm clearly not trying to reproduce biotope because i'm mixing plants from africa and asia with sa plants

Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that you were.  I just meant that, for my own limited viewpoint I've begun to understand how while my low pH, very soft water might do well for my fish (they appear to be very happy...and they are all wild caught as far as I understand), I may not be able to grow crypts in it the way I previously thought I could.

1). They may not grow naturally submerged in the areas where my fish are found (even if they're all found on the same island).

2). They may have been farmed in very different environments even if they were grown submerged, and that could make them melt more readily in my tank.

That's it.  Interesting anecdote about the bacteria in low pH water being different...I can certainly see that being true, as well as the egg shell itself being impacted by the hardness content.  What specifically do you mean by "pure" water?  Low mineral content?

On 10/17/2022 at 8:09 PM, anewbie said:

here are some great gourami

Not sure which you're thinking of, but I have Sphaerichthys selatanensis and S. vaillanti and they seem to be ones that thrive in soft, acidic water...not sure if they require it but they do seem happy in my tanks!  Very colorful and eat like little horses.

[PerceptivePesce]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:04 PM, Jess said:

Yeah I didn’t find it because I was searching “2ml/g”. Suffice it to say that wherever I have typed x ml/g I meant x ml/10 gal. 

I'm new around here and I'm starting to think it's understood that Patrick_G meant 2ml pumps per 10g. 😁 

[Jess]

@PerceptivePesce still better for us to be clear than have someone overdose their tank! I think I even did it subconsciously…

[anewbie]

On 10/17/2022 at 9:08 PM, Jess said:

 

Not sure which you're thinking of, but I have Sphaerichthys selatanensis and S. vaillanti and they seem to be ones that thrive in soft, acidic water...not sure if they require it but they do seem happy in my tanks!  Very colorful and eat like little horses.

I believe there are some species related to Parosphromenus deissneri that require soft acidic water - what i meant by 'pure' water is water with tds extremely low; so not strictly pure but very little mineral content.

[Jess]

On 10/18/2022 at 1:35 AM, anewbie said:

what i meant by 'pure' water is water with tds extremely low; so not strictly pure but very little mineral content.

Got it! Thanks! Yes I have Parasphromenus as well. Not sure what they “require” strictly, but they do seem very happy in my very soft, acidic water!  

[Patrick_G]

On 10/17/2022 at 4:26 PM, Jess said:

EDIT: Whoops, I just noticed that was @Patrick_G who said that...so I don't know if that's a typo or not.

Yup 2ml/10 gallon

sorry about that 😲

[Jess]

@OutBout ok here is my first experiment in high humidity environment!  I found that box at my local Target and I had just received this C. ferruginea 'Sekadauensis'.  I didn't have enough aquasoil so cover the whole bottom of the tupperware, so I used these takeout cups, filled water up to the top of the soil line (the leaves are not underwater but the roots are) and poured a layer of water in the bottom of the temperature to keep the humidity high.  What do you think?  Do I also need to mist these guys?

I'm also busy on the other experiment - I put some potted crypts in my tank that doesn't have aquasoil in it.  But it would be better to have first added the crushed coral...waiting till next pay period to place my Co-op order because there's a lot of stuff I want to get anyway!!!  Once I do that, I'll get some Co-Op crypts, another 10 gal, and set up that experiment.  Then I can compare inert substrate+crushed coral, inert substrate, and aquasoil.  Not a perfect experiment but it'll do.  Now, someone give me some ideas of where I can hide this extra tank from my partner.  

 

 

[OutBout]

On 10/20/2022 at 2:29 PM, Jess said:

@OutBout ok here is my first experiment in high humidity environment!  I found that box at my local Target and I had just received this C. ferruginea 'Sekadauensis'.  I didn't have enough aquasoil so cover the whole bottom of the tupperware, so I used these takeout cups, filled water up to the top of the soil line (the leaves are not underwater but the roots are) and poured a layer of water in the bottom of the temperature to keep the humidity high.  What do you think?  Do I also need to mist these guys?

I'm also busy on the other experiment - I put some potted crypts in my tank that doesn't have aquasoil in it.  But it would be better to have first added the crushed coral...waiting till next pay period to place my Co-op order because there's a lot of stuff I want to get anyway!!!  Once I do that, I'll get some Co-Op crypts, another 10 gal, and set up that experiment.  Then I can compare inert substrate+crushed coral, inert substrate, and aquasoil.  Not a perfect experiment but it'll do.  Now, someone give me some ideas of where I can hide this extra tank from my partner.  

 

 

Looks good! Using individual planter containers should work out too. Did you place a light for the tote? If not you could place it near ambient daylight or another tank's. The nice advantage with a dedicated light is that the small sealed container will get some residual heat. Another idea is placing your container on top of a refrigerator or freezer. The tops of these appliances radiate heat due to the cooling processes and can keep a tote warm!

In terms of misting, I usually do it on the ceiling of the lid before closing just to get humidity throughout. The water will drop down and evaporate into the container air when combined with heat. Furthermore you can also get some sphangum moss (I do the long strand type that's used in terrariums) and soak it really well before putting it on the bottom of the tote around the planters. This will also help with maintaining an even humidity.

Here's a picture of one of my totes. I didn't use aquasoil in this one, just equal parts of peat moss, safe-t-sorb, and earthworm castings. So far it's grown most cryptocoryne and other miscellaneous plants!

Edited October 22, 2022 by OutBout

[Jess]

On 10/22/2022 at 4:26 PM, OutBout said:

Here's a picture of one of my totes.

I guess I forgot to reply to this... this is AMAZING!!!  Yeah I'm gonna be addicted to this.  So far, mine are doing ok - I see thin little roots at the bottom of the cup which makes me sooooo excited!  (Pic below - they look bushier too!!!)  

Also, the crypts I left in their pots in the tanks are still alive and doing ok.  I've planted about half into aquasoil, and they melted back a little but not too much.  So I really feel comfortable saying that, at least for my tanks where the parameters are on the "extreme" side (aquasoil, pH 6.0-6.4, KH 1-2, GH-6, temp 76-78), crypts do much better acclimating if I leave them in their rock wool and pots for a few weeks before planting them.