Another one of my Blood fin Tetras is losing its ability to keep itself oriented

[Stroy15]

The set up is a 47 column tank with 4 red eye tetras, 2 neon tetras, 2 blood fin tetras, 3 white clouds, 2 kulie loaches, a otocinclus, and some snails with a big log and plants, log has been submerged for a year.

Ph 6.7

nitrate, 20

nitrite 0

Ammonia 0

temp 76

gh 200

kh 0-40

the fish were held in a 30 gallon holding tank while I replaced the substrate and deep clean everything. while in the holding tank the ph fluctuated which I think was the source of the problem because symptoms started there. I corrected the ph, buffered the tank and vitamin enriched the diet and the fish seemed to get better until recently when symptoms regarding his ability to remain oriented reappeared. 

A similar set of problems afflicted another bloodfin tetra which took away his ability to swim properly until his death more than a month ago. 

Do you all think this is apart of old age, I had them for almost 2 years but I am not sure how old they were when I got them at my local fish store.  

 

[DiscusLover]

On 9/3/2022 at 1:23 PM, Stroy15 said:

The set up is a 47 column tank with 4 red eye tetras, 2 neon tetras, 2 blood fin tetras, 3 white clouds, 2 kulie loaches, a otocinclus, and some snails with a big log and plants, log has been submerged for a year.

Ph 6.7

nitrate, 20

nitrite 0

Ammonia 0

temp 76

gh 200

kh 0-40

the fish were held in a 30 gallon holding tank while I replaced the substrate and deep clean everything. while in the holding tank the ph fluctuated which I think was the source of the problem because symptoms started there. I corrected the ph, buffered the tank and vitamin enriched the diet and the fish seemed to get better until recently when symptoms regarding his ability to remain oriented reappeared. 

A similar set of problems afflicted another bloodfin tetra which took away his ability to swim properly until his death more than a month ago. 

Do you all think this is apart of old age, I had them for almost 2 years but I am not sure how old they were when I got them at my local fish store.  

 

I think it has to do with the ph fluctuating, fish want a stable ph and will not do well if it changes a lot. Other then that everything else looks normal I think the cause is just the ph

[Stroy15]

I did put in a little alkaline buffer to put the ph back closer to 7 and keep a closer eye on PH

[Stroy15]

I also wonder if it just tumors or a cancer in tetras, I had a red pencil die suddenly because of what I believe was an enlarged tumor that was protruding out the right side. Is there any data regarding the life expectance of tetras in tanks regarding cancer or tumors? 

[Stroy15]

The Bloodfin Tetra is doing better this morning, I think kordon fish protector is helping with treating any internal issues the fish might have.

[Stroy15]

My Tetra manage to squeeze under the décor, I went to remove the décor and found he wasn't doing well at all, where I thought he was fine this morning. I think he may have developed internal cyst or tumors that are not visible to the eye. He still tries to swim in a semi-panic state, I do not think he will make it.

The ammonia of 0.25 is gone and the rest are normal, now and I looking for advice for what to do with this fish. I am still experiencing tank trouble after the substrate replacement.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Stroy15

[Stroy15]

Finally found the root of the issue, I put him in a hospital tank and found worms floating in the water column this afternoon. I treated the hospital tank and plan to treat the main tank's water column followed by a provision of medicated food using Expel-P.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Stroy15

[Stroy15]

Update: I have moved the blood fin tetra back to the main tank using a hospital net to prevent him from crawling under something in the tank. Under a few days of observation I stopped seeing new worms after cleaning the hospital tank multiple times. 

He had lost some of his color, the bright side of this he is still eating, and I have been feeding medicated food. Some with expel-p and now a little kanaplex

The reason I moved him back was the small hospital tank struggled to maintain its ph, bouncing all over the place, and I decided to move him back to the main tank because its ph was stable at around 7-7.2

This morning I measured the tank and it was 6.4-6.5. I added some sachem alkaline buffer in the hopes to keep the ph stable. 

Another weird thing was the one of my other tanks which I thought was going to be around 6.5-6.6 when I left it was up around 7-7.2 

Does anyone know why ph will go up by itself, problems occurred a couple months ago because of this resulting in fish loss where my ph drifted up towards 8 for my tropical fish. 

[Stroy15]

My Blood fin does not seem to be getting any better, he's upside down more often and been holding still long enough for air bubbles to accumulated on his scales.

I have used two different medicated food (kanaplex and expel-p) to try to treat him, the tank water quality still looks good, no ammonia with a ph of 6.7-6.8.

I just saw him beach him self on the hospital net and floating vegetation. Fortunately it was at most a minute. 

I am not sure what to do at this point. Is there a different kind of medication I should try? The main symptom is still lost of motor control or ability to remain buoyant. I don't know if there is a specific decease that causes these symptom a very similar thing happened to another bloodfin tetra of mine a few months ago. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Stroy15

[Stroy15]

Update: little bloodfin tetra is still hanging in there although he does not seem to be getting any better and I am open to new ideas. I treated the whole tank with a second dose of expel-p as per instruction on Saturday and feed the patient kanaplex food. Does anyone have any more recommendations he still has trouble maintaining his orientation. Is there a different medication I should try or which forum page I can go to, to explore further medication options and treatment strategies.  

Edited September 18, 2022 by Stroy15

[Colu]

You could try Epsom salt baths 1 table for 2 gallons as Epsom salt acts as a muscle relaxant to relieve pressure on the swim bladder 

[Stroy15]

I'll try the bucket, recovery bucket for 5 mins each then

[Stroy15]

On 9/18/2022 at 7:00 PM, Colu said:

You could try Epsom salt baths 1 table for 2 gallons as Epsom salt acts as a muscle relaxant to relieve pressure on the swim bladder 

Reporting he didn't seem to like it all that much, the little fish insist on making only left turns trying to get to the surface, do you have any recommendations on using prazi-pro as a bucket bath?

[Colu]

What your describing it sounds more like an injured swim bladder with the problems swimming I done think prazipro would have any effect as you have already treated with Expel p  and your only seeing symptoms in this fish it's more than likely a case of wait and see at this point with injured swim bladder sometimes they will recover given time sometimes the damage is permanent  

[Stroy15]

It has been around a month where the ph problems in the holding tank hurt his organs and with the weakened immune system, gut parasites damage his swim bladder perhaps beyond his ability to recover. Is time to consider euthanasia?🤒 I am not sure he has the ability to recover or properly rejoin his tank mates. I have read that fish can still have lives with swim bladder disorder on PetMD. However this is applied to goldfish not tetras. If he can not stay off the ground in the holding net I don't think he can stay off the ground in the tank. He still eats, but its a quality of life issue if he hast to stay in the floating holding net. I think I can give it another week although my hopes are not high.

[Stroy15]

Update: poor guy is still hanging in there with no real change to his condition, I think he's causing scale damage to his forehead because he's been laying on the floor of the net more and swims upside down. Still eats with kanaplex food and some regular food with frozen one night but once again no real improvement. There are two blood fin tetras in the tank with the other healthy one visiting his sick school mate frequently. I feel bad for both of them. The other guy will be lonely, and lonely tetras don't do well. Need to figure out what's gonna happen. I could get some more tetras, but I don't think I want more blood fin tetras. Which just leaves rehoming the fish or surrounding the fish to the local fish store. Although I have not decided on any course of action yet.

[Stroy15]

End-date: No change in condition, he is often on his side with no ability to swim. I hand fed him blood worms, which he ate. 

I used clove oil which I put 1 ml into a liter bottle and dripped acclimate in his container with aquarium water (liter worth of water), which knocked him out with no sign of distress. (if anyone on this forum needed a future reference on this forum on how to do it) (only 0.45 ml is per liter is sufficient I think) Then I stuck him in plastic bag in the freezer. 

I had the guy for two years, I think, a mixture of ph swings weakened his immune system to the point where parasites damaged his swim bladder beyond the point of recovery. 

I think he had a fine life in the tank with a small school of 3 and other tetras and frozen food, although I think I let him live in the holding net for too long. Part of the reason the other bloodfin tetra swims the glass when he realized he's alone. I have ordered some small mirrors to tape to the side of the tank mediate that behavior. 

It hurt, but then again you need it to hurt. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Stroy15

[Colu]

Sorry to hear he didn't make it