Tail Fin Rot Suggestion

[Ahughes1805]

Hello,

I am new to the hobby (tanks been up for 3 weeks) and seeking some advice for Tail Fin Rot.

About a week and a half ago I ran into a random nitrite spike which led to be 5.0 or greater (during this time I was doing a 10% water change daily) while ammonia stayed at 0 and nitrates at 40. I utilized Frtizyme 7 and within 2-days my nitrites went down to 0.

During the nitrite spike the mollies I have in the tank started developing what looked like ich. Closer inspection lead to what appeared to be tail fin rot. I utilized Melafix for 7-days based on the directions, last night was the last day of the 7. Today I did a 25% water change.

Looking at the fish, only 1 molly has 1-2 white ich like specks and the tail fin rot seemed to stop/slow down on all the others. Now checking on the neons in the tank, 1 has a white colored on the top tip of the tail fin (not cotton/fuzzy) and another has the shredded look on the tail fin. I am hoping to have some suggestions on other forms of treatment/recommendations for fin rot since it moved to 2 neons. Can said treatments/recommendations be used with all the fish since I do not have a quarantine tank at this time.

20 gal tank, planted with anubis/amazon sword/java fern. Water is RO.

Fish are fed once a day along with what can be eaten in a 1-2 minute period.

Heater set to 79 degrees

PH:  7.0-7.2

Ammonia:  0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 0

Thanks.

[nabokovfan87]

Welcome to the forums.  If you can, please provide photos of what is going on. 

Melafix is a passive tool, not really a medication.  It's made from botanicals.  As for treating fin rot you need to use a medicine that works on gram negative bacteria.  The one I have heard recommended elsewhere is neoplex from seachem.  Because you're also dealing with Ich I think the best thing to do right now is to treat for Ich, then treat for the bacterial issues.  Here is a very good video to check out regarding treatment for Ich.  I will also link a few blog articles that are related to the situation.
 

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/how-to-treat-ich-on-freshwater-fish

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/faqs/how-to-treat-fin-rot

Note, the salt used to treat Ich may help with the fin rot.  It's difficult to say that it will treat it, but it might help.  One of the first things you need to do when treating for Ich is verify that it's actually ich.

On 8/15/2022 at 9:55 PM, Ahughes1805 said:

Looking at the fish, only 1 molly has 1-2 white ich like specks and the tail fin rot seemed to stop/slow down on all the others. Now checking on the neons in the tank, 1 has a white colored on the top tip of the tail fin (not cotton/fuzzy) and another has the shredded look on the tail fin. I am hoping to have some suggestions on other forms of treatment/recommendations for fin rot since it moved to 2 neons. Can said treatments/recommendations be used with all the fish since I do not have a quarantine tank at this time.

Please provide photos of everything as best you can.  Video also helps.  You can upload them to youtube if need be and post an unlisted link here.

The critical think here is to verify this is ich, double check everything like stocking and temperature, filtration, etc. to try to decide if this is caused by stress or if this was an illness the fish brought to the tank.  If the fish is new, and they showed up with the spots right away, it's very likely the brought that to your tank.  For Ich, you'd usually see it on the fins and then on the body itself. Your temps are already the correct range, so you'd just need to treat with Ich-X and Salt, then follow up with bacterial medications to treat any secondary infections with the open wounds.  Because of the issues you're already having with Fin rot, this is where it gets tricky.  treating for Ich opens up wounds and leads to a gram positive and gram negative bacteria (simply put, different meds needed to treat each).  If we can verify fin rot, then we'd start there.

If you have a food like repashy you can dose that, or another food with bacterial meds to also treat the fish.  This method is proven more effective as it guarantees the fish receive the meds.  This would not be done now, but after treating for Ich.

So....

Let's take a step back, verify everything, recommend a good treatment plan, then proceed forward 🙂

What meds do you have on hand currently?

Edited August 16, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Ahughes1805]

Here are a few photos. I checked this morning and didn’t see any more white specks like ich any more. 2 photos are of separate neons. One is of a Molly, bad photo but tried showing its front fins since they seem very translucent.

[Ahughes1805]

To follow up when everything started, when the nitrites spiked to 5+ is when visible illness was showing. I was under the assumption I had an issue with the bacteria since ammonia stayed 0 and nitrate was at 40. But I’ve been testing daily and everything is staying in the range I described. 
 

I do have aquarium salt and melafix(thanks for clarifying the product). 
I started reading/watching a video where ich-x, fritz maracym, and another fritz product was used in a quarantine tank. I was also looking into other API products but since I’m so new I wanted to see what other have done and recommend. 

[Ahughes1805]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:53 AM, Ahughes1805 said:

Here are a few photos. I checked this morning and didn’t see any more white specks like ich any more. 2 photos are of separate neons. One is of a Molly, bad photo but tried showing its front fins since they seem very translucent.

 

[Fishy101]

Hi! 

Anytime a fish has a moderate fin or bacterial problems I typically like to drop in a cattapa/indian almond leaf and that seems to get the job done. 

[quikv6]

It sounds like you have an immature biofilter, and a tank that may not have completed it's cycle. Meds such as Maracyn can further impact an immature biofilter. Being these issues were most likely due to the nitrite spike and associated stress, I think maintaining clean, fresh water is the best solution, along with some aquarium salt. Small, daily water changes may be your friend for awhile.

Also, I don't believe you mentioned GH/KH....but Mollies generally thrive in harder water with minerals.

[Ahughes1805]

On 8/17/2022 at 2:53 PM, quikv6 said:

It sounds like you have an immature biofilter, and a tank that may not have completed it's cycle. Meds such as Maracyn can further impact an immature biofilter. Being these issues were most likely due to the nitrite spike and associated stress, I think maintaining clean, fresh water is the best solution, along with some aquarium salt. Small, daily water changes may be your friend for awhile.

Also, I don't believe you mentioned GH/KH....but Mollies generally thrive in harder water with minerals.

I didn’t mention the GH/KH since I unfortunately  don’t have something at this time to test that. I do know the water is softer. I can’t use tap water even with a conditioner because it’s extremely hard (have a water softener). I purchase RO water from my local fish store by 10-gal at a time and store until used. Water is tested and as needed, PH-up to meet ph needs.
 

  I have utilized brightwells remineralizer when doing the most recent water change. 
 

I’ll introduce small doses of salt and see how that works with 10% water changes. Being that I’m 20 gal. Salt instructions say 1TBSP for every 5-gal. That seems hefty, what is your personal experience with introducing salt. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Ahughes1805

[quikv6]

I TBSP per 5 gallons would be a good start, especially for livebearers like Mollies. I have never used PH-up. Large fluctuations in PH/PH crash can also cause stress and issues. I have no experience with a water softener, but perhaps the hard tap water would be really ideal for your livebearers. 

[Ahughes1805]

The RO water from the pet store I get is about 6.6 on the PH when I test it so I use about .75 ml and it brings I up to 7/7.2 ph…I have a hard time distinguishing the 2 blues on the API scale kit. However the PH up is added to the 5-gal bucket and not the tank. 
 

The tap water is high in iron and I use a specific salt “Red out Dura Cube” to reduce the iron we get. 
 

I’m going to continue small water changes with addition of salt to see how the symptoms improve. Fin related issue seem to be very slow on the progression side.

 

I appreciate everyone’s feedback!  

[quikv6]

You are absolutely right in regards to fin progression. Sometimes you can only observe progress by the fact that it's not worsening.

Personally, I use a fixed amount of baking soda to raise the PH, though I recommend crushed coral to raise the KH (and in turn, PH). It lends itself to stability overall. I think it would be a good idea to see what your GH and KH is and then go from there.