Ryukins struggling - advice needed

[clovenpine]

I recently acquired (5 days ago)two adult ryukin goldfish from a family who were planning to dump them into a retention pond and "set them free." I've never kept fancy goldfish before, but I'm concerned that their behavior might signify some health problems.

 

Reba, the smaller of the two (body a little larger than a golf ball), spends most of her time sitting on her belly on the substrate. She does occasionally swim around and sift through the coarse sand for food, but not often. Dolly, whose body is the size of my closed fist, floats vertically head-up in a back corner of the 55g quarantine tank. She swims normally when she does move, but again, very very sedentary.

Temp is 72-74, 0 ammonia and nitrite, <20 nitrate. pH is 8.2 and gH and kH are maxed out on the test strips. I'm doing daily 40-50 % water changes to both control temperature and prevent ammonia buildup since the tank isn't used to that kind of bioload (new tank with a cycled HOB and two cycled sponges from other tanks). I'm also dosing salt at 1T/5g. Neither fish has any outward symptoms of disease.

So, any ideas? Is it my pH or hardness? Are they just stressed and taking a few days to settle in? Are they goners? I'd really like to see these ladies make it!

[Brandon p]

I can’t help much because I have never really kept golf fish. I want to commend you for not letting that family dump them the lake. That is not responsible. Most people won’t just let a dog go in the woods. There is proper way to deal with fish you don’t want or can’t keep one is euthanasia(which I and others can explain how) or find wonderful people like @clovenpinewhatva great deed she has done. Please try to help here.

[Flumpweesel]

Well done you, glad you were there.

Never kept fancies but these are sounding a bit lethargic. Do they get excited at feeding time?

We have no idea what they are used to so they could just be sulking about all the moves. I think their body shape does lead to digestive issues so maybe some high fibre food like peeled peas would help.

[clovenpine]

@Flumpweesel , I can't get them interested in eating anything. I feed very lightly in quarantine anyway, but they won't do for any sinking or floating prepared foods. The smaller one will occasionally sift through the substrate for pellets, but the larger one won't eat at all. 

I have no idea what kind of conditions they came from. I ran into these folks in the parking lot of a Petco where they'd tried to sell/give the fish away, and their next stop was the gator-infested retention pond in the cracker barrel parking lot 😞

[adk gal]

Hello Clovenpine, I am very appreciative you saved them. It was a responsible commendable thing to do. 

I have some experience keeping goldfish for 37yrs. I don't consider my self an expert though. But----Here is what I would do. I am not an aquatic specialist. Just a goldfish keeper. 

They may have swim bladder issues. I would only feed them once a day on commercial feed about the size of their eye. 8 to 12 hrs later I would give them some steamed broccoli or soak some romaine lettuce in boiling water for 2 minutes to soften up, cool it off and feed them small pieces of that to help clear them out. Give them some greens daily, if you can. De shelled peas would be a great addition once or twice a week.  They can eat greens for about 5 minutes. Remove un eaten foods quickly as it could spoil their water.

I would use Prazi pro as a parasite med. Anyone who comes in my house has prazi pro or something similar no matter what. For parasites.

Further, if you didn't slowly acclimate them to your water they could just be adjusting to the ph difference.   Just presenting some ideas here.

If the body of the fish seem bloated  past the fish gills,  look up how to use Epsom salt baths for them.  It could help tremendously.   

Don't combine salt with prazi pro at all.  Please make sure media is rinsed thoroughly before using prazi pro for them.

Further, pet shops say clean the filter once a month, but in my experience, I clean the filters weekly in used aquarium water or de chlorinated tap water.  It will help keep them very healthy without issues.  I let algae grow on the back wall of my tank to let them snack on and it can good for their intestines.  Keep up weekly water changes.

Please remember, there is many different ways to keep goldfish, but these methods have helped my goldfish live well, over a decade mostly.

Im not a professional or breeder just a goldfish keeper .  I hope this helps you.

[clovenpine]

@adk gal , thank you! I'll definitely try offering them higher - fiber vegetable foods if I can get them interested in eating. I'll start changing out the salt with the water change today and look at treating with prazi pro once it's all gone. 

I'm wondering if they were already struggling and that's why the previous owners were trying to dump them...but fish don't get to this size without being healthy at some point, and I'd really like to get them back on track.

[Flumpweesel]

Maybe keep the lighting down for awhile will help them settle. 

On 7/29/2022 at 1:00 PM, clovenpine said:

ut fish don't get to this size without being healthy at some point

I was thinking the same hopefully just sulky sulky fish 

[Flumpweesel]

My goldfish liked flake food best (especially the red flakes). A lot of goldfish keepers ( especially those that tip them into swamps) will use flake so maybe they aren't recognising your food.  Salt might have them a little off their game to in a its weird in here so they might perk up as you change that out.  

Just note I have no issues with flake food possibly more a comment that they may not have had much variety and some fish are picky. 

[gardenman]

On 7/29/2022 at 8:00 AM, clovenpine said:

@adk gal , thank you! I'll definitely try offering them higher - fiber vegetable foods if I can get them interested in eating. I'll start changing out the salt with the water change today and look at treating with prazi pro once it's all gone. 

I'm wondering if they were already struggling and that's why the previous owners were trying to dump them...but fish don't get to this size without being healthy at some point, and I'd really like to get them back on track.

It sounds like a swim bladder issue. Young fish tend to not have it, but as they grow and get larger the problem develops. In my experience, there's not a lot you can do other than keep the fish as comfortable as possible.  The original wild goldfish would reach a length of 18-24 inches. The compressed goldfish have the same internal organs only squeezed into a body that's three or four inches long. Suffice to say the internal plumbing doesn't work as well when compressed in such a manner. Peas are the standard recommendation to help goldfish with swim bladder issues, but I've found them to be minimally helpful. Once a fish has a bad swim bladder it generally stays bad. In my experience, about 80% of young goldfish go on to develop swim bladder issues. It's a very common problem. The swim bladder is like the ballast tanks in a submarine. Fish move air and water into and out of them to adjust where they are in the water. When the tanks became too full of air, the fish floats. When they become too full of water, the fish sinks. Goldfish are very prone to losing the ability to control their swim bladders. It can happen to other fish also, but is more common in goldfish.

[PineSong]

Thank you for helping these little guys!

What kind of filter/aeration do you have going on in the tank, and what size tank?

I kept goldfish for years and like you, I started with a pair that someone else had neglected/wanted rid of and they sat on the bottom when I got them. Other than staying on top of water changes so that they are not being exposed to ammonia or nitrite, my other focus would be making sure there is lots of aeration--if you have a hand on back filter, maybe drop the water level a bit so there is more turbulence where the stream lands, or if you have a sponge filter make sure your air is going full blast and/or add an airstone on the opposite side of the tank.

[clovenpine]

Update: thanks, all, for your help and advice! With good water quality, good food, and patience these girls seem to have turned a corner. I set up a 75g stock tank mini pond for them with two sponges, a static bog filter, and two waterfalls (mostly for aeration/temperature control, though I do still do daily cool water changes since August in Florida is not kind to cool water fish). They're eating a variety now: vibra bites, a mixture of krill and spirula flake, and frozen brine shrimp. Still can't get them interested in roughage, but maybe that will come with time. They're much more active and swimming more easily, and they seem more comfortable in a pond setup than in the tank. 

In the pond setup I'm not able to monitor their poos. Should I treat with worm meds just in case, or can I assume that since they're eating and active then they're also popping appropriately and leave well enough alone?

[Flumpweesel]

I'd leave well alone they seem happy.

My goldfish never touched veg either but they probably ate enough algae and gravel to keep things balanced

[StanF]

Late response here, but it seems like the fish just needed some time to adjust to the new tank / water.  I know some people started recommending meds right away,  but sometimes it pays to have patience. I consider meds to be a last resort and will try water changes and salt first.

StanF 

[anitstuk]

@StanFis right. Sometimes the fish just need the settle into their new homes