Java Fern Decline: Why?

[PineSong]

I used to have very lush growth on my java ferns. Now they look like they are turning black/brown and they are not producing new growth. Photos below from March of this year vs. today.

The tank is 20g long with a Finnex Stingray for 2 five hour periods per day with a four hour break in between. I use Easy Green root tabs for swords and stem plants and dose liquid Easy Green 2x per week 'most' weeks. Sometimes I forget the midweek dose but not often. The test strip in the photos is from today; yesterday was dosing day.

Other changes in this tank since the March photo, I don't know if they are related: I feed only 1x per day most days now, used to feed 2x; more small fish (Endlers, platy fry) and fewer large platies and mollies; problems keeping mystery snails alive; fewer pest snails in the tank as well.

Please weigh in on what I should do. I want my full frilly ferns back!

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by PineSong
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[Minanora]

Maybe not enough potassium and/or iron?

I had to move to dosing potassium and a separate micro because of my volume of Java Ferns in the 75. They eat all of the potassium in the water column in two days.

[PineSong]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:10 PM, Minanora said:

Maybe not enough potassium and/or iron?

I had to move to dosing potassium and a separate micro because of my volume of Java Ferns in the 75. They eat all of the potassium in the water column in two days.

Ohh, that's right. I think I remember you saying you use Flourish? That would make sense as the swords are showing some pinpricking, too.

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @PineSong

I feel your pain.  I've keep java ferns (Leptochilus pteropus previously Microsorum pteropus) for about 15 years and periodically they go through what I call a 'melt'.  When I say 'melt' I mean 'melt' .....most of the java ferns in a tank are reduced to just the rhizome as all leaves turn brown and eventually I remove them.  These are established thickets of 'Trident' and 'Windelov'; not something recently added to a tank, but ones that may have been there for years.

Here is what happens to my java ferns


I dealt with this issue for several years. The leaves would melt so badly that I would remove all of the leaves, leave the rhizomes attached to the hardscape, and within a couple of weeks new leaves would start to appear and grow in healthy and fine. It was very frustrating because the melt would happen 2-3 times a year and it would effect both my 'Trident' and my 'Windelov'. I didn't ever completely determine the cause. At first thought is might be a fungus or plant disease but it seemed to only happen to my Microsorum pteropus (java fern) species. None of my other, more sensitive plants showed any problems.

The way I corrected it was to increase the hardness in my tank with GH Booster which contains potassium, calcium, magnesium, and easily absorbed iron. I increased it by about 3.0 dGH. I honestly don't know if it was increased potassium, magnesium, calcium, or iron that resolved the problem but I don't have the problem occur any more.

Recovering java ferns


Hope this helps! -Roy

[Minanora]

On 7/24/2022 at 9:21 AM, PineSong said:

Ohh, that's right. I think I remember you saying you use Flourish? That would make sense as the swords are showing some pinpricking, too.

I do. I may eventually switch to mixing my own with powdered ferts but for now I do a 1.2 dose of potassium, full dose of flourish comprehensive, and a .5 dose of flourish iron. I do the iron every other feeding. So far things are staying pretty stable even with nitrates at 20 ppm. I haven't been keeping up with my water changes this month....

[PineSong]

@Seattle_Aquarist, that looks exactly like what is happening here. I'm going to get some potassium and see if that will fix it. My water always tests off the charts for hardness so I am not going to fiddle with the GH.

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 7/24/2022 at 7:22 PM, PineSong said:

@Seattle_Aquarist, that looks exactly like what is happening here. I'm going to get some potassium and see if that will fix it. My water always tests off the charts for hardness so I am not going to fiddle with the GH.

Hi @PineSong

Most of that hardness is very likely calcium but you may be light on magnesium (Mg).  If the potassium dosing doesn't resolve the issue in 3-4 weeks then try adding some Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate).  Contact me for dosing information if you need to go that way.  -Roy

[Minanora]

On 7/24/2022 at 9:37 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @PineSong

Most of that hardness is very likely calcium but you may be light on magnesium (Mg).  If the potassium dosing doesn't resolve the issue in 3-4 weeks then try adding some Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate).  Contact me for dosing information if you need to go that way.  -Roy

Hmmm, this is interesting! I'm interested in raising my Mg in my 75. What dosing schedule do you use? And what quantity? I've seen a few of my ferns do that melt, but not badly. Specifically my Java Fern Trident mini's.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Minanora

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @Minanora

I would suggest trying dosing increased potassium (K) first, if that doesn't resolve the issue then we can look at dosing increased magnesium.  -Roy

[Lily Greene]

I am having this exact same problem. All the other plants in my tank are doing fine (variety of anubias and cardinals) but I can't seem to keep the ferns from from getting brown spots and dying. So I started adding more fertilizer but then got algae 🤷 I'm may try adding more potassium like mentioned above. 

[Minanora]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:10 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Minanora

I would suggest trying dosing increased potassium (K) first, if that doesn't resolve the issue then we can look at dosing increased magnesium.  -Roy

If you say so, I'll give it a try. Mind you my potassium dose is 4 cap fulls every two days. Should I up to 6? That would be a 2x "recommended" dose.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Is Potassium snail-safe?

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 7/25/2022 at 10:33 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Is Potassium snail-safe?

Hi @Chick-In-Of-TheSea

Yes, potassium is invertebrate safe, however never overdose any nutrient to avoid issues. -Roy

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:20 AM, Minanora said:

If you say so, I'll give it a try. Mind you my potassium dose is 4 cap fulls every two days. Should I up to 6? That would be a 2x "recommended" dose.

Hi @Minanora

With your 75 gallon I would estimate you have about 60 gallons of actual water volume (at least that is what mine has).  You didn't say what you were dosing for potassium but I punted and guess Seachem Flourish Potassium.  If you are dosing 4 capfuls (20 ml) in your tank that would be about 5.11 ppm of potassium (K).  (See pic #1) 

Pic 1


If you do that every other day then you are dosing about 15.33 ppm per week.  I guessed you were doing 33% water changes weekly so after about 6 weeks your potassium would likely stay in the range of 25 to 40 ppm / average 32.5 ppm).  (See pic #2)  Obviously if you are changing 50% water on a weekly basis the accumulated amount will be less.

Pic #2


Before I say to dose more Potassium, how close am I on the water change amount, frequency, and product being dosed?
 -Roy

[Patrick_G]

@PineSong, I have exactly the same problem, thanks for bringing it up!

@Seattle_Aquarist, thanks for the advice and the benefit of your experience. After reading your advice I realize that my Java fern problems started after I stopped dosing API Leaf Zone (potassium and iron) as a supplement to my comprehensive fert. I’ve recently started dosing   another supplemental potassium and iron blend and I’m seeing some improvements. 

[anitstuk]

On 7/25/2022 at 12:33 AM, PineSong said:

I used to have very lush growth on my java ferns. Now they look like they are turning black/brown and they are not producing new growth. Photos below from March of this year vs. today.

The tank is 20g long with a Finnex Stingray for 2 five hour periods per day with a four hour break in between. I use Easy Green root tabs for swords and stem plants and dose liquid Easy Green 2x per week 'most' weeks. Sometimes I forget the midweek dose but not often. The test strip in the photos is from today; yesterday was dosing day.

Other changes in this tank since the March photo, I don't know if they are related: I feed only 1x per day most days now, used to feed 2x; more small fish (Endlers, platy fry) and fewer large platies and mollies; problems keeping mystery snails alive; fewer pest snails in the tank as well.

Please weigh in on what I should do. I want my full frilly ferns back!

 

I had this exact same problem with my needle leaf java fern and all I did was upgrade the dosing... I got CO2 fertiliser and Leaf Zone from API and it really helped. You can also get some nutrient supplier from Aquarium Co op.. 

[Minanora]

On 7/25/2022 at 10:55 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Minanora

With your 75 gallon I would estimate you have about 60 gallons of actual water volume (at least that is what mine has).  You didn't say what you were dosing for potassium but I punted and guess Seachem Flourish Potassium.  If you are dosing 4 capfuls (20 ml) in your tank that would be about 5.11 ppm of potassium (K).  (See pic #1) 

Pic 1


If you do that every other day then you are dosing about 15.33 ppm per week.  I guessed you were doing 33% water changes weekly so after about 6 weeks your potassium would likely stay in the range of 25 to 40 ppm / average 32.5 ppm).  (See pic #2)  Obviously if you are changing 50% water on a weekly basis the accumulated amount will be less.

Pic #2


Before I say to dose more Potassium, how close am I on the water change amount, frequency, and product being dosed?
 -Roy

Ehem, water changes.... I'm behind. It's been at least a month. I will do a water change tomorrow morning.

I do use seachem potassium. And you have my dosing correct.

So you think I'm still low? I thought I was about on track. No algae blooms even with the lack of water changes. Good new growth on every other plant. Just those trident Java Ferns doing the weird darker grey-green melty on occasion. 

[PineSong]

Seachem Potassium arrived today and has been dosed. Will report back in two weeks, planning to dose 2x week per instructions on bottle.

[Patrick_G]

These two windelov once looked healthy and vibrant. You can see the “before” in my sig pic. I’m hoping co2, extra potassium and extra iron will bring them back. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Patrick_G

[PineSong]

On 7/26/2022 at 6:47 PM, Patrick_G said:

These two windelov once looked healthy and vibrant. You can see the “before” in my sig pic. I’m hoping co2, extra potassium and extra iron will bring them back. 

Exactly what has happened here. From shrubby and full to spindly. I will document changes with photos.

[PineSong]

Well, it's been about twp weeks since I added Seachem Potassium to my 2x per week ferts dose and I wanted to show progress so far. One rhizome that was reduced to just root fibers has begun to put out new leaves that look green and healthy, you can see it on the wood here:

 

Others have some new growth and I am going to cut off all the old brown stuff so I can track progress there better. 

Interestingly, although I've bough java moss three times in the past year, I've not been able to grow it at all and as far as I knew, there was none left in this tank. Since dosing the Potassium, I see it starting to grow and take off, looking green and vigorous. 

The tank is a little sparse on plants at the moment because I removed a large sword and the bulbs I put in to replace it and my old aponogeton haven't really picked up steam yet. But I'm liking the new wood I got at Sandy's Pet Shop when I was in Louisville for the ALA. 

 

 

[redfish]

Very interesting.  My Java ferns are finally starting to recover from mostly dying and have new growth.  I'll keep an eye on them and might have to try some potassium if they start fading away again.  They seem to be responding okay to easy green right now. 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/5/2022 at 6:46 PM, PineSong said:

Well, it's been about twp weeks since I added Seachem Potassium to my 2x per week ferts dose and I wanted to show progress so far. One rhizome that was reduced to just root fibers has begun to put out new leaves that look green and healthy, you can see it on the wood here:

 

Others have some new growth and I am going to cut off all the old brown stuff so I can track progress there better. 

Interestingly, although I've bough java moss three times in the past year, I've not been able to grow it at all and as far as I knew, there was none left in this tank. Since dosing the Potassium, I see it starting to grow and take off, looking green and vigorous. 

 

The tank is a little sparse on plants at the moment because I removed a large sword and the bulbs I put in to replace it and my old aponogeton haven't really picked up steam yet. But I'm liking the new wood I got at Sandy's Pet Shop when I was in Louisville for the ALA. 

 

 

 

Hi @PineSong

Glad to hear the potassium seems to be providing results.  I would leave old leaves on is they still have some green since they are still providing strength to the rhizome however if the leaves have completely died I would remove them. -Roy

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/5/2022 at 9:46 PM, PineSong said:

Well, it's been about twp weeks since I added Seachem Potassium to my 2x per week ferts dose and I wanted to show progress so far. One rhizome that was reduced to just root fibers has begun to put out new leaves that look green and healthy, you can see it on the wood here:

 

Others have some new growth and I am going to cut off all the old brown stuff so I can track progress there better. 

Interestingly, although I've bough java moss three times in the past year, I've not been able to grow it at all and as far as I knew, there was none left in this tank. Since dosing the Potassium, I see it starting to grow and take off, looking green and vigorous. 

The tank is a little sparse on plants at the moment because I removed a large sword and the bulbs I put in to replace it and my old aponogeton haven't really picked up steam yet. But I'm liking the new wood I got at Sandy's Pet Shop when I was in Louisville for the ALA. 

 

 

This is great news. I have Java fern and some of it developed spots which then turn the leaves totally brown eventually. Also my Java moss was brown. Could be diatoms so I’m over on the reverse respiration thread for that. 
 

This past week I dosed Green Leaf aquatics potassium for the first time. I chose this product because there are no other ingredients, and I am already using Easy Green. And it was so cheap! A whole pound for only $5 and I use less than 1/8 tsp for my tank.

Fingers crossed!

[PineSong]

On 8/6/2022 at 6:12 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

This is great news. I have Java fern and some of it developed spots which then turn the leaves totally brown eventually. Also my Java moss was brown. Could be diatoms so I’m over on the reverse respiration thread for that. 
 

This past week I dosed Green Leaf aquatics potassium for the first time. I chose this product because there are no other ingredients, and I am already using Easy Green. And it was so cheap! A whole pound for only $5 and I use less than 1/8 tsp for my tank.

Fingers crossed!

Please post updates when you see results(or not!).