Trouble with Treatment

[Stephanie K]

Water Parameters:

Ammonia: 0 ppm

Nitrite: 0 ppm

Nitrate: 10-15 ppm

Kh: 80 ppm

Ph: 7.2

Temp: 79-80 degrees

5 gallon

One betta

One nerite snail

Live plants

 

Hi everyone,

First, thank you to those who has helped us with our little guy so far. We are grateful to be able to learn from you all here.

Well, we are hoping someone can help us again. Our betta came down with fin rot a few weeks ago which we think lead to an internal bacteria infection, causing some bloat. 

We’ve had this tank running for a little over a year now, but we are still pretty new to the hobby and this is our first sick fish.  

For the first week of treatment, we dosed Maracyn and Ich-X. After that first week, we did a 20% water change and then dosed one tablespoon of aquarium salt to our tank (for 5 gallons). We added an air stone because he had some labored breathing. We fed him frozen brine shrimp mixed with focus, Kanaplex and garlic guard for the following week (2 small feedings twice per day, thank you to @Colu for the wonderful guidance through this treatment). And after that he seemed to be doing better. His fins seem to be healing and he was even swimming to the surface to eat the pellets we slowly began introducing back to his diet (2 pellets in the morning, 1 at night). His breathing was easier, too. We did another 20% water change on Monday and this was going to be his first week with no medication in the tank (except what was left of the aquarium salt after the water change). 
 

But since yesterday he has been laying on the floor of the tank, and he seemed to be breathing hard again. I’m not sure if we messed things up with the water change, but I wanted to be sure his tank stayed clean since he’s still recovering. We turned up his air stone a bit and added a teaspoon of aquarium salt back to the tank today. 
 

He has been eating but losing color again. From certain angles it looks like his scales could be sticking up a bit, but most of the time he looks normal. We also noticed the spot on his gill in the photo just today. 
 

Would it be ok to do another week of Kanaplex feedings? Or does anyone have other suggestions? We don’t want to be too aggressive with treatments and make things worse, but we also don’t want him to be uncomfortable. We’d appreciate any advice anyone might have!

Edited June 9, 2022 by Stephanie K

[Colu]

What I wouldn't recommend doing a second course of kanaplex in food it a powerful antibiotic what I would do is a  course of maracyn   in food feeding a small amount twice a day for 7 days and keep the aquarium salt at 1 table spoon for 5 gallons to aid Gill function 

[Stephanie K]

@Colu thanks so much for your reply! We have Maracyn so we will start that treatment today. 
 

When I mix the medication with frozen food, I am using about 1 teaspoon of defrosted food total since we are making him new food every 24 hours and going through it pretty quick. I try to dose the medication accordingly (about 1/3 of the recommended amount since we are not using a full tablespoon of food). Do you think this can still be effective?
 

Since we introduced 1 tablespoon of salt last week then did almost a 30% water change, we only dosed 1 teaspoon to replace the salt we removed. Do you think we should add another teaspoon?

[Colu]

I would still use  a quarter of a packet of medication reducing the dose will be less effective yes I would add another teaspoon of salt back in @Stephanie K

Edited June 9, 2022 by Colu

[Stephanie K]

@Colu Got it. We’ve added another teaspoon of salt to his tank and will continue feeding the medicated food. Is it ok to use a quarter packet even though we’re using less food?

[Colu]

On 6/10/2022 at 2:51 PM, Stephanie K said:

@Colu Got it. We’ve added another teaspoon of salt to his tank and will continue feeding the medicated food. Is it ok to use a quarter packet even though we’re using less food?

Yes just mix it well 

[Stephanie K]

@Colu thank you, he’s struggling today but we will increase the maracyn dose accordingly in his food tonight. We really appreciate your guidance with this. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/8/2022 at 10:04 PM, Stephanie K said:

But since yesterday he has been laying on the floor of the tank, and he seemed to be breathing hard again.

I don't know if it's the right choice for the situation, maybe @Colu can comment or someone else.  It might be worth adding an airstone in addition to everything else going on to gently increase oxygenation.

[Colu]

On 6/10/2022 at 6:35 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I don't know if it's the right choice for the situation, maybe @Colu can comment or someone else.  It might be worth adding an airstone in addition to everything else going on to gently increase oxygenation.

Extra air stone would be beneficial 

[Stephanie K]

@Colu @nabokovfan87 thank you! I do have some extra air stones so I will add another one in. 

@nabokovfan87 just curious, do you happen to know how long it can take for an air stone to begin improving the oxygen in the water?

[Colu]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:40 PM, Stephanie K said:

@Colu @nabokovfan87 thank you! I do have some extra air stones so I will add another one in. 

@nabokovfan87 just curious, do you happen to know how long it can take for an air stone to begin improving the oxygen in the water?

Straight away  your levels of desolved oxygen Will start to rise

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/10/2022 at 3:40 PM, Stephanie K said:

@nabokovfan87 just curious, do you happen to know how long it can take for an air stone to begin improving the oxygen in the water?

Yep, as Colu said, right away.  Whenever you're running meds its almost always recommended to also add an airstone.

[Stephanie K]

@nabokovfan87 @Colu thank you both so much for your help! We now have a second air stone in there in addition to the one in our sponge filter. He’s still breathing a bit hard but he does seem a little better. We checked our parameters yesterday and all still seemed ok.
 

We will finish up his week of medicated frozen food with Maracyn. Hoping to have a better update by next week. And since this is our first sick fish (obviously we are new to the hobby), we really appreciate you getting us on the right treatment paths!

Edited June 11, 2022 by Stephanie K

[Stephanie K]

@Colu @nabokovfan87 hi, again, an update on our betta: I noticed pineconing this evening when I went to feed his second dose of Maracyn food. I know this is Dropsy and a symptom of something serious internally. I’ve seen people talk about a lot of different methods but given his current treatment history, is there anything I can do to make him more comfortable? 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Stephanie K

[nabokovfan87]

@Stephanie KI am trying to find some further information.  Have you added salt?

https://www.thesprucepets.com/dropsy-in-aquarium-fish-1381806

Edited June 13, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Stephanie K]

@nabokovfan87 thanks so much for your quick reply. We added 1 tablespoon a couple of weeks ago. Did a partial water change, about 25%, then added 2 teaspoons back since then. The tank is 5 gallons. 

[nabokovfan87]

@Stephanie KWhat food do you have for your betta?  I'm trying to think if there's something you could feed with less of a risk of causing more constipation / bloating.

I think you'd be better off trying to let the salt do the work, dosing the tank with Maracyn as opposed to the food right now.  I would additionally add Ich-X for fungal as well.

I think it makes sense to try to give the fish 24-48 hours and check for improvements (if you decide to dose the tank itself). It's difficult because I don't know how much is remaining in the fish's body currently and it's going to make dosing correctly difficult.

When you tried to feed the betta last, did he eat ok?

Edited June 13, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Colu]

The most effective treatment for Dropsy is kanaplex in food to treat any possible internal bacterial infection and can help with polycystic kidney disease that can cause the fluid buildup and metroplex to treat the tank as it treats aeromonas bacteria a common cause of Dropsy and you to can do Epsom salt baths 1 table spoon for 2 gallons for no more than 15 minutes no more than twice a day for a couple of days or add aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 2 gallons directly to the tank the salt will help reduce fluid as you have already treated with kanaplex I would do a course of metroplex in food and add the aquarium salt if you have live plants then I would do Epsom salt baths  @Stephanie K

[Stephanie K]

@nabokovfan87 their usual food is NorthFin pellets (they would get frozen foods two days a week and I would fast them for one day) But since we’ve been medicating I’ve been using frozen brine shrimp. He’s been eating two small meals twice a day, but I do have to feed him with tweezers. 
 

@Colu I just ordered some Metroplex but unfortunately it won’t be here until Wednesday. Should I continue feeding the Maracyn food until then? 
 

We do have a few live plants in our tank. Do you think catching him for salt baths would put more stress on his body? We only have a few plants in our tank now so if you think it would be better to leave him where he is, we can take the plants out or just sacrifice them. We have another tank but I wouldn’t want to cross contaminate anything. 
 

We are also due for a water change today. Since we added one table spoon initially, did maybe a 25% water change a week later, and then added in two teaspoons; do you think it would be safe to add 2 tablespoons after the water change today? Is that amount of Salt still safe for our Nerite? 
 

Lastly, what do you both think about dosing the tank with medication vs. feeding medicated food? Is feeding generally more effective? My main concern would be if it would take more oxygen out of the water since he’s breathing hard, but maybe at this point that’s more from his infection than the amount of oxygen in the water. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/13/2022 at 7:38 AM, Stephanie K said:

since we’ve been medicating I’ve been using frozen brine shrimp. He’s been eating two small meals twice a day, but I do have to feed him with tweezers. 

Perfect

On 6/13/2022 at 7:38 AM, Stephanie K said:

Lastly, what do you both think about dosing the tank with medication vs. feeding medicated food? Is feeding generally more effective? My main concern would be if it would take more oxygen out of the water since he’s breathing hard, but maybe at this point that’s more from his infection than the amount of oxygen in the water. 

Feeding is generally considered more effective. It also might be difficult because of the stress on the body right now. Being bloated, the usual recommendation is salt and to stop food.

[Colu]

  if bloating was caused by constipation then I wouldn't feed as he has Dropsy I would keep treating with maracyn in food till metroplex arrives you could add a lower dose of Aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 5 gallons at that level it shouldn't harm your plants and will still help reduce fluid buildup @Stephanie K

[Stephanie K]

@Colu got it, will continue the Maracyn feedings until the Metroplex arrives. If we do end up needing to feed medicated food for three weeks, is it ok to stick to frozen brine shrimp?

We will also add another tablespoon of salt back in after our water change today. 

[Colu]

Yes you can keep using frozen brine shrimp you try frozen Daphnia bloodworms as well 

[Stephanie K]

@Colu will do, thank you again to you and @nabokovfan87  

As of tonight he’s on his side a bit more, breathing pretty hard. He still ate but barely wanted to. Will keep trying. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/13/2022 at 4:48 PM, Stephanie K said:

If we do end up needing to feed medicated food for three weeks, is it ok to stick to frozen brine shrimp?

Yes. and I would suggest giving some rest days too. It might help him digest to have breaks.