What's Happening?

[Cinnebuns]

On 5/24/2022 at 7:26 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I hope you feel confident enough to say it isn't a result of the tank itself (chemical) but something else going on.

I agree with that. It's easy to blame the tank since it was a new factor but I think that was a coincidence. 

[Cinnebuns]

I'm still confused about what's going on in this tank. The ramshorn snails were temporarily moved to a different tank. While there they were doing great and were active. Long story short I moved them back to the tank in question and they have barely moved and some have died. There are 4 juvenile cories in the tank who now seem to be doing fine. I'm so confused. 

One factor I'm now considering is this litter box. It is reasonably close. It is not the most frequently used one but it is used almost daily. Could that be some that may effect the snails but not the fish? Maybe copper?  I might test for copper in the tank to check for that but anything else maybe?  Another thing a litter box may cause is ammonia but that comes out 0 every time I test it. 

[Cinnebuns]

Update:  tested 0 for copper

[Cinnebuns]

I realized I never uploaded the pic of the distance of the tank to the litter box. Here it is. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/2/2022 at 3:08 PM, Cinnebuns said:

One factor I'm now considering is this litter box. It is reasonably close. It is not the most frequently used one but it is used almost daily. Could that be some that may effect the snails but not the fish? Maybe copper?  I might test for copper in the tank to check for that but anything else maybe?  Another thing a litter box may cause is ammonia but that comes out 0 every time I test it. 

There could be dust/particulate from the litter which may cause some contamination. Especially with the cats pawing it over time. Rare, but theoretically possible. Moving the HoBB to the rear should let you set the cover on all the way?

The way I usually would handle it with something like this, difficult for this situation because of the snails, is to "deep clean" and to take everything I can out of the tank and cleaning it at the hose or sink.  Drain the tank entirely because you have no substrate, move the filters to a bucket with the fish for an hour or so, clean it, and then rinse everything. Wash the inside/outside of the lid.  This should "reset" everything and you can start to track everything and figure out what is going on. 

Visually I don't see anything critical which would cause issues like you're experiencing. An aerosol, something might be causing issues with the snails?  Something external getting into the water.

I would revisit the "sterile" nature of the tank, add wood or something for the snails to graze on. Something to generate aufwuchs. Repashy Soilent Green has the same result.  If the snails are eating and things balance out, maybe that's all it was?

Edited June 3, 2022 by nabokovfan87
autocorrect error

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/2/2022 at 11:54 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

There could be dust/particulate from the litter which may cause some contamination. Especially with the cats pawing it over time. Rare, but theoretically possible. Moving the HoBB to the rear should let you set the cover on all the way?

The way I usually would handle it with something like this, difficult for this situation because of the snails, is to "deep clean" and to take everything I can out of the tank and cleaning it at the hose or sink.  Drain the tank entirely because you have no substrate, move the filters to a bucket with the fish for an hour or so, clean it, and then rinse everything. Wash the inside/outside of the lid.  This should "reset" everything and you can start to track everything and figure out what is going on. 

Visually I don't see anything critical which would cause issues like you're experiencing. An aerosol, something might be causing issues with the snails?  Something external getting into the water.

I would revisit the "sterile" nature of the tank, add wood or something for the snails to graze on. Something to generate aufwuchs. Repashy Soilent Green has the same result.  If the snails are eating and things balance out, maybe that's all it was?

I had been considering ordering more cholla wood for my new shrimp. I have some but more doesn't hurt. It might not be a bad idea to follow through with that and put it in this tank as well. I could add some small decor pieces too. The cories might appreciate something to hide in. They might not cultivate micro organisms but could help with bacteria colony and therefore parameters 

[Cinnebuns]

I realized I no longer have anything in that Hobb so I took that off and the lid is more securely on. I'm also going to move the litter box to the other corner just in case that is the issue. Dang cats always messing with my tanks even when they aren't messing with my tanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:49 PM, Cinnebuns said:

The cories might appreciate something to hide in.

Might be slightly easier to get a piece of mopani.  You can even attach moss to it.  (depending what the shape is) 

Corys tend to like "cover" so as long as they have a roof, something to be underneath, they are good to go.  My panda herd is back in full force, so it's awesome to see them do their thing.  I have two pieces of mopani in there, bare tank otherwise. I use two lava rocks to hold up the mopani.

On 6/2/2022 at 10:55 PM, Cinnebuns said:

I realized I no longer have anything in that Hobb so I took that off and the lid is more securely on.

Awesome.  Keep an eye on flow as a result of removing that. I don't know which of the two airpumps are hooked up, but more flow = better in general.

On 6/2/2022 at 10:55 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Dang cats always messing with my tanks even when they aren't messing with my tanks!

How so?  Maybe they have stuff on their paws and introduce it?  Take a small hand towel and cover that back opening of the tank if need be 🙂 .

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/3/2022 at 1:34 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Might be slightly easier to get a piece of mopani.

I literally just sold 2 pieces of mopani a month ago. Facepalm 

 

On 6/3/2022 at 1:34 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

How so?  Maybe they have stuff on their paws and introduce it?  Take a small hand towel and cover that back opening of the tank if need be

One of them barely pays the tanks any attention but the other is a 1 year old kitten with a water obsession so even the tanks without fish in them are a fascination. I have a hard time keeping her from climbing on the tops of them and sticking her paws in the holes. One time she pulled the heater out. Even when I cover the entire tank with a blanket she will stick her paw in and the blanket with it. She's gotten a ton better tho so it's not a huge issue anymore. 

Here's a pic of her last night. It was way cuter in person. She found a spot to watch the fish I could agree with. She laid down there for awhile after. 

 

Here she is after trying to jump on top without checking if the lid was on. I had taken it off to do a water change. 

 

Ever the naughty kitty getting into my supplies. 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Cinnebuns

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/2/2022 at 11:47 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Here's a pic of her last night. It was way cuter in person. She found a spot to watch the fish I could agree with. She laid down there for awhile after. 

Although it's annoying, that's absolutely awesome the kitten finds enjoyment in the tank. I love that.

Maybe some TV time with some fish would help to sway the attention?

One way to keep them from the lids might be to stick some pile velcro (the rough half) on the lid.  It won't harm them in any way, but will make the lid a place they don't really want to lay on.
 

On 6/2/2022 at 11:47 PM, Cinnebuns said:

I literally just sold 2 pieces of mopani a month ago. Facepalm 

Well, the good news is you get to hand pick something, now the question is just what! In my main tank I have ghostwood from houston manzanita. I absolutely LOVE the shape of something like pacific drift wood. You can even just use rocks to provide the cover. Even just some pieces of slate across two pleco caves would be perfect. Don't ask me how I know. Pandas turn pleco caves into night clubs.

[drawnitsud]

Ha! What great pictures. Would have been pretty funny to see her reaction after taking that dip

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/3/2022 at 1:53 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

One way to keep them from the lids might be to stick some pile velcro (the rough half) on the lid.  It won't harm them in any way, but will make the lid a place they don't really want to lay on.

All of them have double sided tape on it. It kinda works to a point. Some of them she's learned to take the tape off of tho lol

On 6/3/2022 at 1:53 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Well, the good news is you get to hand pick something

Tbh, I'm not entirely sure where to get driftwood where I'm not taking a crap shoot on what it looks like. Ordering it online has always resulted in just a square slab of wood which is partially why I sold that mopani. 

[nabokovfan87]

She's definitely a crafty one.  I can't even recommend a versatop because the glass is so thin 😞 . 

Difficult to decide this one on how to keep the kittens out.  They should have velcro in the tape/adhesive section.  Widest dimension you can is best.  They do sell it industrially as halves, so you can buy just the hook side without having to pay for a portion you'll never use.  I know how cats can be.... I'm just hoping the kitten and the fish don't get hurt accidentally. What a mess 😞 😞 😞

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/3/2022 at 2:03 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

She's definitely a crafty one.  I can't even recommend a versatop because the glass is so thin 😞 . 

Difficult to decide this one on how to keep the kittens out.  They should have velcro in the tape/adhesive section.  Widest dimension you can is best.  They do sell it industrially as halves, so you can buy just the hook side without having to pay for a portion you'll never use.  I know how cats can be.... I'm just hoping the kitten and the fish don't get hurt accidentally. What a mess 😞 😞 😞

Heads up incase you missed it. You were typing while my messages were merged so I don't think you will get a notification for the 2nd part of my message before this

[nabokovfan87]

I see! 🤔

[Guppysnail]

I just want to throw some food for thought out. Other heavy metals and things are present in water that can be harmful to both fish and snails. Your main tank has more plants that purify water as well as more decor for surface area that bacteria and biofilm can grow on and is needed for both snails and Cory fry to eat.  Fry like shelter as well.  
 

I am going to second @nabokovfan87  the sterile bare nature of that tank is itself not conducive to fry raising or snail raising. Dump in as many plants as you can.  Most plants including stems do just fine floating.  Put a plant weight on some to sink them so the Cory fry can hide and shelter from any water movement.  
Good luck. I hope you figure out your conundrum.  

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/3/2022 at 7:15 AM, Guppysnail said:

I just want to throw some food for thought out. Other heavy metals and things are present in water that can be harmful to both fish and snails. Your main tank has more plants that purify water as well as more decor for surface area that bacteria and biofilm can grow on and is needed for both snails and Cory fry to eat.  Fry like shelter as well.  
 

I am going to second @nabokovfan87  the sterile bare nature of that tank is itself not conducive to fry raising or snail raising. Dump in as many plants as you can.  Most plants including stems do just fine floating.  Put a plant weight on some to sink them so the Cory fry can hide and shelter from any water movement.  
Good luck. I hope you figure out your conundrum.  

I've considered adding gravel too. The reason I went bare is the cories but this tank they are juveniles and not fry and may be able to handle fine gravel. That would also likely help with bacteria and such. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/3/2022 at 2:34 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Take a small hand towel and cover that back opening of the tank if need be

This stuff is awesome for covering gaps.  Easy to cut with scissors and make notches for tubing, cords, etc. I recently bought some. It was $2.65 for 6 sheets of it.

Also I know these are pricey but they work like a dream. Has a motion sensor on it and sprays a loud blast of air when there is movement. ssscat

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/3/2022 at 9:43 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

This stuff is awesome for covering gaps.  Easy to cut with scissors and make notches for tubing, cords, etc. I recently bought some. It was $2.65 for 6 sheets of it.

Also I know these are pricey but they work like a dream. Has a motion sensor on it and sprays a loud blast of air when there is movement. ssscat

I've considered the ssscat product. The only thing that makes me hesitate is if anything other than air comes out of it and therefore could be bad for the tank. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:38 AM, Cinnebuns said:

I've considered adding gravel too. The reason I went bare is the cories but this tank they are juveniles and not fry and may be able to handle fine gravel. That would also likely help with bacteria and such. 

Oh they definitely don't mind.  I've had them on imagitarium black sand, cribsea sand, and on seachem flourite dark and all were fine.

You may have higher rates without the substrate because you can more easily gravel vac with a turkey baster or something.

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/3/2022 at 2:51 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Oh they definitely don't mind.  I've had them on imagitarium black sand, cribsea sand, and on seachem flourite dark and all were fine.

You may have higher rates without the substrate because you can more easily gravel vac with a turkey baster or something.

When I started with the cories I was told the fry only tolerate either barebottom or very thin layer of sand. Not even full sand. I kinda think that person was being a little overly cautious and min/maxing tbh but I do feel more comfortable with barebottom when comes to newly hatched fry mainly cause I feel I can clean without risking sucking one up. Both the guppies and the cories are in one tank for a little over a month and then are added to a new tank with the guppies being seperated by sex. At that point I see no issues with using a substrate. I think that would be an important change for me to make to add substrate to those 2 tanks. I have some random fake plants that I don't use that wouldn't hurt for hiding places as well as surfaces for bacteria as well. I wish I had more plants to put in them but atm I don't. 

I have to say tyvm to everyone to who has been contributing to this thread, especially @nabokovfan87who has responded a lot. It's been incredibly helpful to think through possible issues and ways to improve what I am doing. One thing I love about this hobby is the never-ending learning. No matter how much you know, there's always a way to learn and get better. 

[Cinnebuns]

.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/3/2022 at 1:13 PM, Cinnebuns said:

When I started with the cories I was told the fry only tolerate either barebottom or very thin layer of sand. Not even full sand. I kinda think that person was being a little overly cautious and min/maxing tbh but I do feel more comfortable with barebottom when comes to newly hatched fry mainly cause I feel I can clean without risking sucking one up.

Mine are "colony bred" so it dictates a lot about survival rates.  when I do see a fry, I've only ever lost one because I moved decor around.  If you follow the "no substrate" and trying to hatch everything, I would just follow Dean's method and leave it at that. He's perfected it.

 

On 6/3/2022 at 1:13 PM, Cinnebuns said:

No matter how much you know, there's always a way to learn and get better. 

100%  I feel like most days I don't know anything! LOL   Some amazing tanks from everyone here.

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/3/2022 at 4:08 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would just follow Dean's method and leave it at that. He's perfected it.

Tbh, considering how obsessed I am with breeding, I'm amazed I haven't looked into Dean's stuff more. The info I got about raising cory fry was from a Facebook group and we all know how hit or miss info from there can be. 

I'm embarrassed to say I'm not entirely sure where I could get info about Dean's method. Is there ACO articles maybe?  I know there are some videos that include him but I haven't seen a lot. This is probably the most helpful rabbit hole I'm about to go down. Inc researching how Dean raises fish I never will raise even lol. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Cinnebuns

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/3/2022 at 12:21 PM, Cinnebuns said:

if anything other than air comes out

I’ve used them for years. It’s supposed to be just air, nothing else. It has no scent or anything, but they are loud enough to scare a human walking by too! 😆